Playing within the most historically realistic simulation possible, here's how

uruguru · 11-20-2023, 03:32 PM

I've tried this manually with some success, but it's been very challenging. Here is a rule set that I think would increase the "realism" immersion for players in historical sims.

1. Playing with real-life transactions and lineups on -- this already exists, and this restriction is assumed for the following points:

2. Forced results for teams not controlled by the player -- basically force the historical win-loss results of teams not controlled by the player. If the Yankees actually swept the Red Sox in a doubleheader in July 1962, then they should sweep them in the 1962 OOTP sim. Basically teams in OOTP would end up with records identical to history except for their games against a player-controlled team.

In current OOTP, this can currently only be done with relentless save-scumming to achieve the desired results. It's possible (and I've done it for about a third of a season), but very tedious. Even simply providing a "force result" button on the scoreboard UI would help tremendously. However, this option might be a lot harder to implement than it sounds, depending on how integrated the db updates are during the progression of any individual game.

3. Allowing player-controlled teams to set their other lineups and pitching rotations - Currently this can be done by manually changing the lineups and starting pitcher at game start. This is moderately tedious and prone to error, but it can be currently done manually. It would be tremendoulsy helpful if, in this scenario, OOTP would just automatically choose the player's defined lineups and rotation.

4. Use the fatigue system for player-controlled teams - Currently, there is no player fatigue when using real-life lineups because fatigue is presumed to be accounted for in the real lineups. However, if a player can set his own lineups in this ruleset, fatigue needs to be properly tracked for his players. Currently there is no way to enforce this without a player devising a custom fatigue system an doing it himself. Simply being able to enable the built-in OOTP fatigue system would be great.

What would this accomplish?

This configuration would allow players to run their historical franchises as if THEY are the only variable in the simulation. Everything else outside of their games would be as close to a historical sim as realistically possible.

I did it for about 40 games in a season and I absolutely loved it, but I had to give it up because of the tedium required to maintain it.

PLEASE CONSIDER for a future OOTP release!

thehef · 11-20-2023, 05:44 PM

For the forced results, are you suggesting that only the winning & losing team be forced, or that the entire game is forced. What I mean by the entire game is that all of the stats from the real life game becomes part of your OOTP world.

I would think that if you want the only variable being the OOTP gamer running his team, then you'd need the latter: all other results - including every stat from every game - being forced. Otherwise you might end up with a scenario - just as an example - where a star pitcher IRL was rested & ready for a series against your team because he only pitched 2 innings three days ago, but in your sim game he pitched a complete game and thus would need more rest before facing your team.

LansdowneSt · 11-20-2023, 06:13 PM

The other games wouldn't even have to play as far as I can tell. It could just be daily stats layered upon the other (non-human and non-that-day-opponent) teams as the calendar turns... That'd be quite the file to read in order to layer in stats on a daily basis though. Not sure how else to "force".

uruguru · 11-20-2023, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

For the forced results, are you suggesting that only the winning & losing team be forced, or that the entire game is forced. What I mean by the entire game is that all of the stats from the real life game becomes part of your OOTP world.

Just the results. For starters, play-by-play results are not available for all historical games so that would be an impossible request.

Just the final game results so that the standings are accurate. So for your particular franchise, you have the same pennant races as in the real world only slightly adjusted for the changes caused by your effect on your chosen team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

Otherwise you might end up with a scenario - just as an example - where a star pitcher IRL was rested & ready for a series against your team because he only pitched 2 innings three days ago, but in your sim game he pitched a complete game and thus would need more rest before facing your team.

There is no player fatigue when using historical lineups, so that could not occur. The AI teams are going to play their lineups historically. The fatigue model would need to be enabled for the player's team (and potentially AI teams in the possibly altered postseason), because otherwise the player could start his ace pitcher 162 teams.

uruguru · 11-20-2023, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

The other games wouldn't even have to play as far as I can tell. It could just be daily stats layered upon the other (non-human and non-that-day-opponent) teams as the calendar turns... That'd be quite the file to read in order to layer in stats on a daily basis though. Not sure how else to "force".

Yes, recreating actual PBP is not possible and I'm not suggesting that. I am just talking about recreating the overall teams wins & losses.

Le Grande Orange · 11-30-2023, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uruguru

I1. Playing with real-life transactions and lineups on -- this already exists, and this restriction is assumed for the following points:

2. Forced results for teams not controlled by the player -- basically force the historical win-loss results of teams not controlled by the player. If the Yankees actually swept the Red Sox in a doubleheader in July 1962, then they should sweep them in the 1962 OOTP sim. Basically teams in OOTP would end up with records identical to history except for their games against a player-controlled team.

In current OOTP, this can currently only be done with relentless save-scumming to achieve the desired results. It's possible (and I've done it for about a third of a season), but very tedious. Even simply providing a "force result" button on the scoreboard UI would help tremendously. However, this option might be a lot harder to implement than it sounds, depending on how integrated the db updates are during the progression of any individual game.

3. Allowing player-controlled teams to set their other lineups and pitching rotations - Currently this can be done by manually changing the lineups and starting pitcher at game start. This is moderately tedious and prone to error, but it can be currently done manually. It would be tremendoulsy helpful if, in this scenario, OOTP would just automatically choose the player's defined lineups and rotation.

4. Use the fatigue system for player-controlled teams - Currently, there is no player fatigue when using real-life lineups because fatigue is presumed to be accounted for in the real lineups. However, if a player can set his own lineups in this ruleset, fatigue needs to be properly tracked for his players. Currently there is no way to enforce this without a player devising a custom fatigue system an doing it himself. Simply being able to enable the built-in OOTP fatigue system would be great.

If you're going that far, you might as well use the as played schedules too. That would eliminate any potential mismatch between a real-life lineup and a date on which no actual game was played but might be in OOTP due to using the original schedule. Players will also get game days off as they did in reality which should help with fatigue, whereas with original schedules the players will be playing or pitching on days they didn't actually do so.

Indeed, I would go so far as to say using real-life lineups and transactions must be paired with using the as played schedules in order to achieve the highest statistical accuracy.

sflcat61 · 12-06-2023, 12:51 PM

Sounds like a hard thing to do and might generate some skewed player stats as the game engine minimizes or amplifies player performances to ensure the historically accurate game result. I guess one way around it would be to randomly generate player stats for the game AFTERWARDS rather than doing actual PBP for individual games but I have always found stat add-ons for quick play games somewhat artificial and not organic at all. Another way around it would be to use historical box scores, but I'm thinking that would be one hell of a DB file, and as some have mentioned, the earlier the games in history, the sketchier the info available.

11-20-2023, 03:32 PM	#1
uruguru All Star Starter Join Date: May 2022 Posts: 1,223	Playing within the most historically realistic simulation possible, here's how I've tried this manually with some success, but it's been very challenging. Here is a rule set that I think would increase the "realism" immersion for players in historical sims. 1. Playing with real-life transactions and lineups on -- this already exists, and this restriction is assumed for the following points: 2. Forced results for teams not controlled by the player -- basically force the historical win-loss results of teams not controlled by the player. If the Yankees actually swept the Red Sox in a doubleheader in July 1962, then they should sweep them in the 1962 OOTP sim. Basically teams in OOTP would end up with records identical to history except for their games against a player-controlled team. In current OOTP, this can currently only be done with relentless save-scumming to achieve the desired results. It's possible (and I've done it for about a third of a season), but very tedious. Even simply providing a "force result" button on the scoreboard UI would help tremendously. However, this option might be a lot harder to implement than it sounds, depending on how integrated the db updates are during the progression of any individual game. 3. Allowing player-controlled teams to set their other lineups and pitching rotations - Currently this can be done by manually changing the lineups and starting pitcher at game start. This is moderately tedious and prone to error, but it can be currently done manually. It would be tremendoulsy helpful if, in this scenario, OOTP would just automatically choose the player's defined lineups and rotation. 4. Use the fatigue system for player-controlled teams - Currently, there is no player fatigue when using real-life lineups because fatigue is presumed to be accounted for in the real lineups. However, if a player can set his own lineups in this ruleset, fatigue needs to be properly tracked for his players. Currently there is no way to enforce this without a player devising a custom fatigue system an doing it himself. Simply being able to enable the built-in OOTP fatigue system would be great. What would this accomplish? This configuration would allow players to run their historical franchises as if THEY are the only variable in the simulation. Everything else outside of their games would be as close to a historical sim as realistically possible. I did it for about 40 games in a season and I absolutely loved it, but I had to give it up because of the tedium required to maintain it. PLEASE CONSIDER for a future OOTP release! Last edited by uruguru; 11-20-2023 at 03:34 PM.

11-20-2023, 06:13 PM	#3
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 7,112	The other games wouldn't even have to play as far as I can tell. It could just be daily stats layered upon the other (non-human and non-that-day-opponent) teams as the calendar turns... That'd be quite the file to read in order to layer in stats on a daily basis though. Not sure how else to "force". __________________ Complete Universe Facegen Pack 2.0 (mine included) https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...k_2.0.zip/file Just my Facegen Pack: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi..._Pack.zip/file

12-06-2023, 12:51 PM	#7
sflcat61 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 117	Sounds like a hard thing to do and might generate some skewed player stats as the game engine minimizes or amplifies player performances to ensure the historically accurate game result. I guess one way around it would be to randomly generate player stats for the game AFTERWARDS rather than doing actual PBP for individual games but I have always found stat add-ons for quick play games somewhat artificial and not organic at all. Another way around it would be to use historical box scores, but I'm thinking that would be one hell of a DB file, and as some have mentioned, the earlier the games in history, the sketchier the info available. __________________ Sports and History, 1857-1858 (current) Baseball on Earth-1 The Armchair Athlete

11-20-2023, 05:44 PM	#2
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	For the forced results, are you suggesting that only the winning & losing team be forced, or that the entire game is forced. What I mean by the entire game is that all of the stats from the real life game becomes part of your OOTP world. I would think that if you want the only variable being the OOTP gamer running his team, then you'd need the latter: all other results - including every stat from every game - being forced. Otherwise you might end up with a scenario - just as an example - where a star pitcher IRL was rested & ready for a series against your team because he only pitched 2 innings three days ago, but in your sim game he pitched a complete game and thus would need more rest before facing your team.