For the Love of God, Why?

[luckymann]

Every - and I mean EVERY - historical save I have ever done features at least one instance of this nonsense.




If this is a historical simulation - the aim of which by its very definition is to at least partway simulate the history of baseball (albeit an alternative one) - it is utterly counterintuitive for a player's career to be ended by injury or misadventure years in advance of the point at which his IRL career came to a close.

For mine it all stems from the fact that one is unable to uncheck storylines until the game has been created, thereby allowing some sort of leakage of this function into the save.

Yes, Kool-Aid drinkers, I am aware I can go into commish mode blah blah blah undo yada gibber historical transactions yada gibber.

Beside the point. It simply shouldn't happen in a historical sim. At least, not be the default option as seems the case here.

Can we not have the storylines option moved to the pre-genesis part of the Wizard so that anybody who is interested in the simulation having close resemblance to history can uncheck it and those happy for the variety spice to be sprinkled onto their meal leave it unchecked?

Seems like it should be a relatively simple fix, no?

Hopefully at least consideration is given to this situation.

Yours sincerely,

Disgruntled.

[Rain King]

Where do you get the notion this is a Storyline? This seems to be a Career Ending Injury or a Career Ending Injury Setback (based on the text it sounds like he might have been injured previously, but it isn't 100% clear). I don't see anything in the article that makes it seem like a Storyline, though.

What historical settings do you use? In general, based on what you are saying you are probably using Recalc? There are definitely Historical settings which allow players to develop, age, and be injured differently than their "real-life" counterparts. So, we need confirmation that you are not playing with those settings.

Recalc should override injury damage when you move to the next off-season, but I'm not sure what happens if an injury forces a retirement in-season. Have you made it to the next off-season yet? Can you confirm that the player is still retired at that point?

What is your setting for "Retire According to History"?

This could potentially be a circumstance (i.e. bug) that the Recalc system doesn't account for, but I think we need more evidence to confirm that.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Where do you get the notion this is a Storyline? This seems to be a Career Ending Injury or a Career Ending Injury Setback (based on the text it sounds like he might have been injured previously, but it isn't 100% clear). I don't see anything in the article that makes it seem like a Storyline, though.

What historical settings do you use? In general, based on what you are saying you are probably using Recalc? There are definitely Historical settings which allow players to develop, age, and be injured differently than their "real-life" counterparts. So, we need confirmation that you are not playing with those settings.

Recalc should override injury damage when you move to the next off-season, but I'm not sure what happens if an injury forces a retirement in-season. Have you made it to the next off-season yet? Can you confirm that the player is still retired at that point?

What is your setting for "Retire According to History"?

This could potentially be a circumstance (i.e. bug) that the Recalc system doesn't account for, but I think we need more evidence to confirm that.

In this save, 1-year recalc. RATH is on but miss seasons is off. Historical minors enabled, color bar on. Auto advance strategy and league evolution ON.

Mainly default settings in place.

Injuries are just as the game has set them - LOW for S/T and VERY LOW for L/T. Position player fatigue again just as the game has set it, currently LOW.

Aging and dev speed 1.000, target ages default, TCR 25.

In my previous experience, players stay retired when this happens. In this case I am still in the reg season and have manually retired him.

Why do I think it is a storyline? Just a hunch. Looking at those settings and the fact that this is an "historical" save, if it isn't a storyline then it is a bug, at least the way that I see it.

Maybe not a bug in the pure sense of the word in a programming context, just the wrong way of going about things that should be looked at.

Imagine you're doing a save like this and Ruth or Mantle goes down in their rookie season. How do you reckon that plays out for an "historical simulation"?? A big name like that disappears prematurely and it doesn't only affect the player in question but the entire universe because of how closely tied they are to the LTMs. It's the first domino to fall. Suddenly guys are hitting 25% more homers or stealing 15% more bases than IRL just to fill the void and the accuracy is destroyed.

Career-ending injure a player, if you must. But do it in their final IRL season or thereabouts. In my OP example, Vic Willis is a pitcher in his age-30 season so the effect will be minimal but still, if you're a Vic Willis fan trying to recreate his career with the requisite verisimilitude then you're going to be jacked if this happens. No? The ability to reverse it, notwithstanding.

G

[Reed]

Originally Posted by luckymann

In this save, 1-year recalc. RATH is on but miss seasons is off. Historical minors enabled, color bar on. Auto advance strategy and league evolution ON.

Mainly default settings in place.

Injuries are just as the game has set them - LOW for S/T and VERY LOW for L/T. Position player fatigue again just as the game has set it, currently LOW.

Aging and dev speed 1.000, target ages default, TCR 25.

In my previous experience, players stay retired when this happens. In this case I am still in the reg season and have manually retired him.

Why do I think it is a storyline? Just a hunch. Looking at those settings and the fact that this is an "historical" save, if it isn't a storyline then it is a bug, at least the way that I see it.

Maybe not a bug in the pure sense of the word in a programming context, just the wrong way of going about things that should be looked at.

Imagine you're doing a save like this and Ruth or Mantle goes down in their rookie season. How do you reckon that plays out for an "historical simulation"?? A big name like that disappears prematurely and it doesn't only affect the player in question but the entire universe because of how closely tied they are to the LTMs. It's the first domino to fall. Suddenly guys are hitting 25% more homers or stealing 15% more bases than IRL just to fill the void and the accuracy is destroyed.

Career-ending injure a player, if you must. But do it in their final IRL season or thereabouts. In my OP example, Vic Willis is a pitcher in his age-30 season so the effect will be minimal but still, if you're a Vic Willis fan trying to recreate his career with the requisite verisimilitude then you're going to be jacked if this happens. No? The ability to reverse it, notwithstanding.

G

This is why I don’t use long term injuries in my historical games. Even with recalc on if they have a CEI, they are done. Is it realistic for a player to have a long term injury or out for the season if IRL they had no or only a short time injury? I don’t think so. JMO
Even with just short term injuries selected I had a few players that would be out for 6 weeks, come back for a week, and be injured for another 6 weeks.
Before the option to uncheck long term injuries, I would go into the injury file (which was easy to do if you have a windows PC) and delete the CEIs and injuries over 60 days.
PS there are some people that play with historical players that love the randomness of the CEI and they would hate to see that go away. They Usually play with RAH off since they want to see how players that had early CEIs or retired early in life (Koufax, Clemente, etc. for example) would have performed if they had played longer.
I can see if you had RAH and retire according to history both on, you could run out of decent players at certain positions if you had long term injuries on.
I guess it would be a nice option to toggle off CEIs.

[LansdowneSt]

Hey, G,

Sorry to see Vic go down. It's not a storyline though. Reed's correct. It is a really bad injury that ended his career. More realistic than Tommy John in 1906 technically...

For those that don't want to have Career Ending Injuries or 12-month injuries or any long-term disruption to the player pool, the offset I have seen is to turn the injuries off but raise fatigue, so depth charts still matter. As you know very well, once the game starts anything can happen based on the set-up, annoying as it can be when it disrupts what one hopes will play out (presumably to see how Vic played out in a semi-controlled scenario).

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Hey, G,

Sorry to see Vic go down. It's not a storyline though. Reed's correct. It is a really bad injury that ended his career. More realistic than Tommy John in 1906 technically...

For those that don't want to have Career Ending Injuries or 12-month injuries or any long-term disruption to the player pool, the offset I have seen is to turn the injuries off but raise fatigue, so depth charts still matter. As you know very well, once the game starts anything can happen based on the set-up, annoying as it can be when it disrupts what one hopes will play out (presumably to see how Vic played out in a semi-controlled scenario).

I don't have a problem with random injuries if they are for a reasonable amount of time. Just not these aberrant career-ending ones. I don't want to turn long injuries off altogether but I'd consider ticking the setting down to EXTREMELY LOW if someone can tell me what the actual time definition is for "short" and "long" injuries. Is the cutoff 3 months? 6? 12?

Thanks

G

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by luckymann

I don't have a problem with random injuries if they are for a reasonable amount of time. Just not these aberrant career-ending ones. I don't want to turn long injuries off altogether but I'd consider ticking the setting down to EXTREMELY LOW if someone can tell me what the actual time definition is for "short" and "long" injuries. Is the cutoff 3 months? 6? 12?

Thanks

G

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Short term injuries I believe are 2 weeks or less. Long term injuries are around 6 weeks or more. Anything between those values basically gets "interpolated" between the values. So if you set short as very often and long as never, then a 5 week injury will be very rare, 4 weeks would be average, etc...

They act independent, so no, turning off long term injuries will not increase short term ones.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/....php?p=4890847

[LansdowneSt]

If you really want to turn off Career Enders, you need to get to the injuries txt file and turn off the flag that makes a possible injury a career ending one.

I've never messed with it but it looks like the 4th number is the setting with a 0 = not possible to end a career and a 1 being possible to end a career.

The attached is from when I cracked open an older version, but I presume there is a similar file for OOTP 25.

[Reed]

The attached file that LansdowneSt shows it what I use to change. If you go that route, make sure you save it somewhere on your computer because patches over write it.

Just backup your game, restore it calling it something like injury test, turn off long term injuries, increase frequency of short term injuries, fast sim a couple weeks at a time, and check players injuries. That way you can see for yourself and it doesn't take very long (unless you have a large league).

Actually I just tried what I suggested. Most (75%??) injuries were 2 weeks or less. Others varied up to 6 weeks. One was for 7 weeks which surprised me.

[luckymann]

Thanks guys, the feedback is very much appreciated!

G