Box scores missing data

[uruguru]

ok, this is a weird bug that I cannot reliably reproduce but it's definitely happening.

What I am seeing is that sometimes there will be extra-base hits that happen in the game but are not displayed on the box score. Currently I have only seen it in 3 of the 11 games I have simmed. All of these games were played 3D (single pitch, every play) as opposed to just simming the whole game in one pass, or even whole innings at a time.

Unfortunately, the box scores are html files so I can't upload them, but the attached screenshot will demonstrate.

Look at Jerry Grote in that screenshot. He hit a 3-run homer in the first inning. He has 1 hit for the game and 4 total bases. But the "Home Runs" line is completely missing from the box score. In addition, there were two Cubs who hit home runs and their "Home Runs" line is missing as well.

I have two other games where Doubles were hit and the "Doubles" line is missing as well.

I want to be clear that these hits ARE properly listed in the game log and are reflected in the player stats. They just seem to be missing from the box scores.

I generally analyze box scores and this is the first time I've ever seen this bug. That makes me think this is a recently introduced bug. However, I can't say that it's unrelated to manually playing out the games in 3D, so it might be a pre-existing problem if it's somehow triggered by that. I will spend some time tonight looking at the box scores for the auto-simmed games for other teams to see if those games might have this problem as well.


Anyway, this is a minor bug but maybe its weirdness might trigger a light bulb in the devs' heads about something that might be causing it.

edit: it happened again (4 out of 12 games now) and I've uploaded a 2nd image to demonstrate. You can see in the WPA graph that Gaylord Perry hit a 2-run homer in the 5th (who needs the DH) but there is no listing for "Home Runs" in the box score even though it shows Rico Carty's triple. Also Carty hit a double in that game (2 hits, 5 total bases) and the "Doubles" line is missing as well both BOTH teams (they had 1 double, the Astros had 2). Bizarre.

[Sweed]

This is strange. FWIW I play out all of my games, single pitch modern 3d.
At the end of every game my ritual is to review first

1. Both teams pitcher's lines

2. For the opponent batters I look across the bottom of the lineup section at runs, hits, walks, and K's. I then look at their team LOB in the lower section of the batting area. From there I review all extra base hits taking note of each players season total for said stats to that point. I do this as a way to keep in touch with my league and how players on other teams are performing.

3. For my batters I do the same and then review each of their individual stat lines too.

I do this for every game, playing one pitch mode, and have never seen this in my game. I am up to date on official patches but do not have the current beta installed. IOW if it were recently introduced it would have been in the last beta I do not have. At least from what I see in my game.

I know you do some coding or development so would no better than me, but is there a chance something got corrupted in that league and things aren't saving properly? Does it happen in any other league?

The only other thing I would add is my game is a modern game that was imported from version to version since v4. But I do dabble in a one season replay game using the same one pitch mode and box score review and have never seen it there either.

Don't know if that helps at all, but there it is.

[uruguru]

This is not the beta. I did download that version to a different directory to do a quick test, but then deleted it.

The thing is that I religiously (and I mean religiously) scour the box scores for the games of my team and I have never seen this problem. I definitely would have seen this long ago. However, I don't always play out the game in 3D, so I was thinking maybe that had something to do with it but, even so, I am doubtful about that.

And it's inconsistent. The box scores for the next two games I simmed were fine.

[uruguru]

A real clue! I think I maybe know the sequence of events that is causing this. In the box score attached below, Houston had 3 doubles, but only one of them is not listed (the other 2 are). St. Louis had 1 double and it is not listed.

Here's the thing. Because of a real-world interruption, I saved and exited the game after six innings, then quit OOTP (which triggers a save). I then later resumed the game from that point. This has definitely been done in other games as well.

The two doubles that were missing (STL Bill White and HOU Joe Morgan) occurred before I quit and saved the game. The two doubles that are listed occurred afterwards.


In summary, I think save & exiting the game and then restarting may be resetting some variables that the box score needs to display properly. This would also explain why I don't see it happening in box scores for other teams which are simmed automatically.

Will try to reproduce in the next game.

[uruguru]

Still looking at this. Running an almanac doesn't fix the box scores. I don't think it regenerates them anyways, but just copies them from the box_scores folder.

Other events like fielding errors, wild pitches, SF, SB, CS and GIDP are not "forgotten" after a save & exit from the game. Still can't confirm that sac bunts are remembered yet, but I expect they are.

It seems to be restricted to forgetting 2B, HR and presumably 3B (haven't confirmed that one, yet)

[uruguru]

easy to recreate! Just save/exit a game and re-enter after someone hits a 2B or HR (or maybe 3B).

Here's a 45-second video of me saving/exiting a game after 8 innings and re-entering, with a before & after of the box score.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwYm...ature=youtu.be

[Matt Arnold]

Are you playing with a lower stats detail setting in that league? It looks like on low or medium stats detail we may not store the individual at-bat data if you exit and resume.

[kq76]

Nicely done figuring this out, uruguru! I exit and resume a fair bit too so I appreciate you trying to get it fixed (I didn't notice it).

Boxscore relatedly, as someone who scours those lines religiously as you said, do you wish the HR column was for that game and maybe the AVG and 2nd RBI columns were replaced with something else for that game, like XBH and SB? I do.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by kq76

Nicely done figuring this out, uruguru! I exit and resume a fair bit too so I appreciate you trying to get it fixed (I didn't notice it).

Boxscore relatedly, as someone who scours those lines religiously as you said, do you wish the HR column was for that game and maybe the AVG and 2nd RBI columns were replaced with something else for that game, like XBH and SB? I do.

Would you like to hear my 2 cents?

A hard no, to all of those changes. And the reason(s)

A lot of those stats are only going to be filled with a zero for most players because of the one game window and are already available in the current box score.

All of those stats are covered for that game in the "game detail" in the middle section of the box score. A look at the pitcher's line will show HRA for that game so easy to see how many were hit. Simple matter then of checking the details. XBH are also easy to find though not noted on the pitcher's line, as they should not be. At least my understanding is P's don't have a measurable affect on doubles and triples.

SB has it's own section that will list the "normal" one or two that actually get one, but even if five guys swiped a bag they are all there in an easy to see place. What's better.. all batters season total of SB or 17 players, that played that day showing zero and one guy showing a 1? Keeping in mind that 1 SB is shown in the details.

When one looks over box scores the season totals are much more telling than one game stats. They keep one more informed of the big picture. IE how players that don't play for you are doing whether stars, average players, or fillers. Instead of seeing a SS, that seems to be playing for his defense, batting .219 with 2 HR in Sept the user now sees a SS that went 1-5, no xbh, no HR for that one game. The immersive big picture is lost, IMHO, with no real gain.

What you are hoping\looking to change puts the same information in two places and removes information that adds "value". Again IMHO.

I suppose one could argue about RBIs but if those are removed from one section, shouldn't all instances be removed? The in game RBI is no more a player skill than the season RBI total. FWIW I would not be in favor of removing RBI as it still tells a story about the game that was played. YMMV.

Now if OOTP ever added a proper score sheet to go along with the log and box score? Yeah, that could include columns for a lot of stats we don't currently get. Along with more batting stats for that game, FA, E, Assists come to mind.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Would you like to hear my 2 cents?

Not really. :P

Originally Posted by Sweed

A lot of those stats are only going to be filled with a zero for most players because of the one game window...

True, but when they're not 0 (or better yet "-"), they'd stand out better.

Originally Posted by Sweed

...
and are already available in the current box score.

All of those stats are covered for that game in the "game detail" in the middle section of the box score. A look at the pitcher's line will show HRA for that game so easy to see how many were hit. Simple matter then of checking the details. XBH are also easy to find though not noted on the pitcher's line, as they should not be.

True, but I don't really like that section as it's more difficult to wade through than necessary. I mean, if your team only hit 1 home run or 1 double, sure, it's easy, but when there's like 3, 4, 5+ it's not nearly as easy to parse as a table is. I do appreciate the details in the next section, but I definitely prefer the table to get the raw data.

Originally Posted by Sweed

When one looks over box scores the season totals are much more telling than one game stats. They keep one more informed of the big picture. IE how players that don't play for you are doing whether stars, average players, or fillers. Instead of seeing a SS, that seems to be playing for his defense, batting .219 with 2 HR in Sept the user now sees a SS that went 1-5, no xbh, no HR for that one game. The immersive big picture is lost, IMHO, with no real gain.

Really? I don't find them telling at all and I don't think it makes sense to record season stats on a page that is to do with 1 specific game. And why AVG and HR and RBI and not OBA and SLG? Wouldn't those be far more telling of their season as a whole?

Originally Posted by Sweed

What you are hoping\looking to change puts the same information in two places...

True, but the purpose of it is to increase the readability of it. I mean, we could turn all the stats from the table into horizontal lists like the next section, but I think most would probably agree that that would seriously suck. I think I'm probably not alone in finding tables a lot easier to process a lot of information from than horizontal lists that sometimes take up multiple lines.

Originally Posted by Sweed

Again IMHO.

No worries. I was of course JK with my "not really" above.

I thought the main objection, if any, would be, "no, this is how box scores have always looked and it's how they always should look".

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Are you playing with a lower stats detail setting in that league? It looks like on low or medium stats detail we may not store the individual at-bat data if you exit and resume.

Thank you for looking at this!

I am playing on Normal Detail. I do this for performance reasons. It was my understanding that I give up Batter vs Pitcher data (on High) and detailed splits (on Very High). I don't really track that stuff, so Normal seemed like the logical setting.

I really think I shouldn't be losing this data in any mode, but I'll test it on High next time.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by kq76

Nicely done figuring this out, uruguru! I exit and resume a fair bit too so I appreciate you trying to get it fixed (I didn't notice it).

Boxscore relatedly, as someone who scours those lines religiously as you said, do you wish the HR column was for that game and maybe the AVG and 2nd RBI columns were replaced with something else for that game, like XBH and SB? I do.

I just want to make it as easy as possible for the OOTP devs to reproduce the issue. Anyone will tell you that's half of the work.

With regards to box scores, I personally don't want more summary data, but I'd rather have more game data included.

Currently, there is no way to track the following events by reviewing box scores:

1) Pickoffs

2) Intentional Walks

3) Fielding Putouts and Assists

The first two can be figured out by the game log, but the fielding ones can only be reliably tracked by watching the game (since the game log doesn't always give the scoring for a play).

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by kq76

Not really. :P



True, but when they're not 0 (or better yet "-"), they'd stand out better.



True, but I don't really like that section as it's more difficult to wade through than necessary. I mean, if your team only hit 1 home run or 1 double, sure, it's easy, but when there's like 3, 4, 5+ it's not nearly as easy to parse as a table is. I do appreciate the details in the next section, but I definitely prefer the table to get the raw data.



Really? I don't find them telling at all and I don't think it makes sense to record season stats on a page that is to do with 1 specific game. And why AVG and HR and RBI and not OBA and SLG? Wouldn't those be far more telling of their season as a whole?



True, but the purpose of it is to increase the readability of it. I mean, we could turn all the stats from the table into horizontal lists like the next section, but I think most would probably agree that that would seriously suck. I think I'm probably not alone in finding tables a lot easier to process a lot of information from than horizontal lists that sometimes take up multiple lines.



No worries. I was of course JK with my "not really" above.

I thought the main objection, if any, would be, "no, this is how box scores have always looked and it's how they always should look".

I appreciate the tone of your post and certainly taking it in a positive light.

No mention of how a proper scoresheet could fix all of this? Ever play Strat O Matic and use their horizontal scoresheets? The right side of the sheet had a column for almost every basic offensive stat and columns for FA, PO, and Assists IIRC (probably 35 years since I've seen one). I know Markus says a scoresheet is difficult, but so are many things. Let's put pressure there to get an even better stat picture to look at after a game.

With regard to the bold.. The thing about "as is" is any box score you review you get a glimpse of how a team's players are performing over the current season. It is a quick and dirty look, but a look none the less. To me what is not telling me anything is seeing a guy go 3/5 with 2 HR, and it's Sept, he plays every day, is hitting .219, and those are his first two HR of the season. We certainly disagree on this and that is fine.

Now, if you want OBP or Slg in place of RBI, fine by me. But I would understand historical players that would prefer RBIs (yes RBIs with an "s") because that would better represent the era they were playing in.

Anyway in the spirit of the thread good on uruguru finding not only an issue but also the cause. Well done.