Contract Bug - Page 5

RchW · 12-28-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simcrazy

Evan Longoria signed a contract extension with less than 28 days MLB service time.

That addresses your second question, but not your first, as Longoria obviously has never been on waivers.

To answer your first question, a player going through waivers and being able to be assigned to minor league camp increases that players value because of the flexibility. Also, if this is a year long process, what if the player clears waivers in April, destroys AAA pitching and now you want to sign him to a cheap deal in September for the next year or two? This is not a crazy scenario.

If he's on your minor league team you have him for 7 years. After 4 or 5 he may be exposed in the rule 5 draft. No signing no negotiation needed, ever.

PSUColonel · 12-28-2011, 07:12 PM

Another reason I forgot: a scout could be off on a player, thinking he's better than he actually is.

RchW · 12-28-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

potential talent bumps.

Isn't it easier to just fix this then to sit around and come up with reasons why it shouldn't?

There is nothing to be fixed. No problem exists.

You are at the point of offering increasingly bizarre scenarios instead of admitting you fabricated a problem.

PSUColonel · 12-28-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

There is nothing to be fixed. No problem exists.

You are at the point of offering increasingly bizarre scenarios instead of admitting you fabricated a problem.

Well, why don't we ask Markus then?

SandMan · 12-28-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rchw

there is nothing to be fixed. No problem exists.

+1

I have been reading this thread from the start and was a little confused as to why a contract would be offered to a player that was placed on waivers and cleared with no other team taking a chance on this player. No negotiations should be required, hence no contract.

PSUColonel can you shoot up a screen shot of a player that you would offer a contract to but unable due to this "bug". I am just a little confused on what type of player you would be talking about and if it is even a "bug" to begin with. I think the game is working as intended with this issue.

PSUColonel · 12-28-2011, 09:48 PM

I didn't do an in depth search, but I am sure I can come up with more. Here is an example of what I am talking about though. I could see potentially re-signing this player before november/end of season.

PSUColonel · 12-28-2011, 09:58 PM

How about this guy?

BusterKing · 12-28-2011, 10:44 PM

The point is that Markus even admits that this is fixed for version 13.

Now, what's this entire debate about?

We are saying this problem did not exist before it got broken with a patch, now we want it fixed with a patch for OOTP12, not 13.

Simple to understand.

PSUColonel · 12-28-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterKing

The point is that Markus even admits that this is fixed for version 13.

Now, what's this entire debate about?

We are saying this problem did not exist before it got broken with a patch, now we want it fixed with a patch for OOTP12, not 13.

Simple to understand.

Exactly Buster..a couple of these guys just like to challenge anything I say or suggest.

Le Grande Orange · 12-30-2011, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Maybe the players are a little better than that though...

If you've removed the player from the 40-man roster that's a pretty definitive statement that you don't think the player is major league quality, or else you would have kept him. Remember that the act of removing a player from the 40-man roster involves offering him to all the other major league clubs first. If he clears waivers that means not only do you not want him, none of the other major league clubs want him either.

RoyEarl · 12-31-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

..a couple of these guys just like to challenge anything I say or suggest.

Sometimes paranoia is a self fulling prophecy but I think perhaps its the insistence for Markus to fix an issue that is, as explained, a rare issue. Version 13 is I am sure well underway and development and fixes for 12 are over.

You have acknowledgement of the issue, a promise to fix in 13, a workaround, and fairly sound logic that its a rare and unlilkly scenario that any AI team would suffer an egregious injury from this "bug" that wouldn't be easily countered by any of the other multitude of issues the AI has to deal with...

But its a good catch, notwithstanding.

simcrazy · 12-31-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

If he's on your minor league team you have him for 7 years. After 4 or 5 he may be exposed in the rule 5 draft. No signing no negotiation needed, ever.

Um, except if you want to extend him?

simcrazy · 12-31-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyEarl

Sometimes paranoia is a self fulling prophecy but I think perhaps its the insistence for Markus to fix an issue that is, as explained, a rare issue. Version 13 is I am sure well underway and development and fixes for 12 are over.

You have acknowledgement of the issue, a promise to fix in 13, a workaround, and fairly sound logic that its a rare and unlilkly scenario that any AI team would suffer an egregious injury from this "bug" that wouldn't be easily countered by any of the other multitude of issues the AI has to deal with...

But its a good catch, notwithstanding.

It's not paranoia. It's an obvious bug, acknowledged by Markus, that people are trying to say is not a problem for reasons unknown. It is a problem. There are reasonable scenarios where extending a previously waived player to a cheap deal could and would make sense.

RchW · 12-31-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simcrazy

Um, except if you want to extend him?

Are you serious? A player is tied to you for up to 7 years and you want to extend his contract. For what possible reason would you offer a guy who has no freedom a different contract than the one that exists?

Edit: if you're suggesting that you want to extend a guy who's reached minor league FA status then let him go to FA and sign him back. This is really simple. There is no lineup to sign minor league FA at 25-28 years old.

RchW · 12-31-2011, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I didn't do an in depth search, but I am sure I can come up with more. Here is an example of what I am talking about though. I could see potentially re-signing this player before november/end of season.

Read the second screen shot. His contract gets automatically renewed. He is tied to this current team for 6 years (if MLB contract) or 7 years (if minor league contract) unless you release him or he is picked up on waivers. He wont go by waivers because he has cleared. He is open for rule 5 but that is 7 months away and you can keep him without offering a contract by simply placing him on your 40 man roster.

I don't understand why you don't see the obvious non-issue here. The player has zero chance of being lost to you unless you re-do waivers or release him.

RchW · 12-31-2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

How about this guy?

Same answer

Read the second screen shot. His contract gets automatically renewed. He is tied to this current team for 6 years (if MLB contract) or 7 years (if minor league contract) unless you release him or he is picked up on waivers. He wont go by waivers because he has cleared. He is open for rule 5 but that is 7 months away and you can keep him without offering a contract by simply placing him on your 40 man roster.

I don't understand why you don't see the obvious non-issue here. The player has zero chance of being lost to you unless you re-do waivers or release him.

RchW · 01-01-2012, 12:04 AM

Happy New Year!!!!!!

Let me repeat my request from post 80. Please show me a major league pending FA who is a likely candidate for an extension who has been placed on waivers and not claimed? There has to be one considering how huge this problem is.

The above player fits into the very very small subset of this bogus problem that may be legitimate. I have monitored my leagues and not found any instances of such players. All of the other examples posted in this thread are players who don't require any extension for any reason because they are marginal players under team control who don't need an extension and are not pending FA.

As previously indicated the waiver wire is cleared as the off season starts so any minor league FA who may exist who was previously on waivers can be offered minor league extensions because they are no longer on waivers.

Le Grande Orange · 01-01-2012, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simcrazy

Um, except if you want to extend him?

Again, why would you want to offer an extension to a player whom you've decided is not major league quality by outrighting him to the minors? (Not only that, but every other major league club has decided is not major league quality since they waived the right to claim him.)

Also, I'll just note that in real life players who become minor league free agents (either as a result of completing their seven minor league seasons with the club that originally signed them, or being released before those seven seasons were up) generally only sign one-year contracts with other major league organizations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

He is tied to this current team for 6 years (if MLB contract)...

And, really, in terms of years it can be more than that. Major league free agency involves six years of Major League Service, which can take more than six seasons to acquire. A player could theoretically be on the 40-man roster for 9 years before becoming a major league free agent: the first 3 years are spent entirely on option, which don't count at all towards MLS, and then the next 6 years fully on the active roster to achieve the 6 years' of MLS.

It is possible for a major league club to control a player for a long time indeed. (Of course, arbitration helps a lot in boosting his salary while still under club control.)

simcrazy · 01-01-2012, 11:04 AM

"what if the player clears waivers in April, destroys AAA pitching and now you want to sign him to a cheap deal in September"

RchW · 01-01-2012, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simcrazy

"what if the player clears waivers in April, destroys AAA pitching and now you want to sign him to a cheap deal in September"

What could possibly be cheaper than the minor league contract the player currently has?

Unless he is a pending minor league FA you need do nothing. The player has no freedom to move.

If he is a pending minor league FA waivers get wiped out at the trade deadline so he is signable at will in Sept to another minor league contract

01-01-2012, 12:04 AM	#97
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Happy New Year!!!!!! Let me repeat my request from post 80. Please show me a major league pending FA who is a likely candidate for an extension who has been placed on waivers and not claimed? There has to be one considering how huge this problem is. The above player fits into the very very small subset of this bogus problem that may be legitimate. I have monitored my leagues and not found any instances of such players. All of the other examples posted in this thread are players who don't require any extension for any reason because they are marginal players under team control who don't need an extension and are not pending FA. As previously indicated the waiver wire is cleared as the off season starts so any minor league FA who may exist who was previously on waivers can be offered minor league extensions because they are no longer on waivers. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

12-28-2011, 07:12 PM	#82
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,089 Blog Entries: 37	Another reason I forgot: a scout could be off on a player, thinking he's better than he actually is.

12-28-2011, 09:48 PM	#86
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,089 Blog Entries: 37	I didn't do an in depth search, but I am sure I can come up with more. Here is an example of what I am talking about though. I could see potentially re-signing this player before november/end of season.

12-28-2011, 09:58 PM	#87
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,089 Blog Entries: 37	How about this guy?

12-28-2011, 10:44 PM	#88
BusterKing Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,416	The point is that Markus even admits that this is fixed for version 13. Now, what's this entire debate about? We are saying this problem did not exist before it got broken with a patch, now we want it fixed with a patch for OOTP12, not 13. Simple to understand.

01-01-2012, 11:04 AM	#99
simcrazy All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 547	"what if the player clears waivers in April, destroys AAA pitching and now you want to sign him to a cheap deal in September"