Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack - Page 1303

rrb77 · 09-09-2015, 07:53 PM

1926 Chicago White Sox ...... from current RMY auction.

Merkle923 · 09-09-2015, 10:55 PM

Didn't realize this was being sought till recently - the Whiz Kid in Cleveland garb 1959. Will to get a better copy of this one later.

okcochise · 09-10-2015, 10:55 AM

Fully updated seasonal zip files have been uploaded for baseball (1956-1973) along with an update only file with close to 600 new cards. Cards have also been uploaded for basketball (1968-1973 plus ABA 1970-73) and hockey (1966-1969, 1990).

Game Front

Cusick · 09-11-2015, 09:57 AM

Using newspaper searches, I found a first baseman Randy Speck with a 1962 high school team in Huntingdon, PA. That would be about the right timing, but I didn't find any association with the Cardinals nor even with professional baseball. He continued to play baseball in his home town into the 1970's with the VFW team there. Without the link to pro baseball, the possibility that he is the guy in the Cardinal photo is only speck-ulation.

Merkle923 · 09-11-2015, 10:19 AM

I'm assuming you didn't come across a photo of him, right? Because as speculative as this appears - there doesn't seem to be anybody in minor league history with a similar name (even something like "Andy Peck"), certainly nobody who played first base. And as I suggested above, if the Cardinals let a kid try out with them on the same day the Topps photographer happened to be there in 1963, I have no doubt Topps would've posed him.

Pinetarpress · 09-11-2015, 11:02 AM

On E Bay Dr J Teee has a pic of Gary Martz with Harmon Killebrew of the Royals....not too many pics of Martz in a Royals uniform....

Merkle923 · 09-11-2015, 01:03 PM

Wow. That's 100% of the non-photoshopped ones I've ever seen. He was literally there for one at bat.

rrb77 · 09-11-2015, 08:22 PM

1928 STL Cardinals ....... from fedxit

rrb77 · 09-11-2015, 08:53 PM

1925 Washington Senators ....... current RMY auction

Cusick · 09-12-2015, 01:48 PM

The answer to your question, Merkle, is no, I didn't come across a photo of the Huntingdon, PA, Randy Speck.

Shown below is an article from the San Diego Union of March 23, 1965. It shows that the way Johnny Richards moved from the Giants to the Astros was that the Giants were attempting to demote him to the minors, and the Astros claimed him. It also indicates that his home was in the Dominican Republic. Baseball-Reference.com doesn't given any place of origin for Richards.

Amazin69 · 09-12-2015, 06:47 PM

Shouldn't we be considering a connection to Paul Speckenbach?

PROS:

• First name starts with "Pa", similar to "Ra" in a signature, perhaps.
• Last name starts with "Speck", possibly the end trailed off/was deleted
• In Cardinals system in 1964, playing for Rock Hill after being obtained on waivers from Dodgers
• High-profile prospect (signed for $100,000 the night his high school class graduated in 1962, called "The New Bob Feller") before his arm troubles
• Definitely photographed by Topps (shares 1964 Rookie Stars card with Wayne Schurr)

CONS:
•*Pitcher, not a first baseman. No evidence that Cards considered a position change.
• Not obtained until the mid-May cut-down date, so wouldn't have been photographed in training camp. Unless it's 1965 rather than 1964. Or Topps had a photog wandering around Rock Hill, SC.
• Didn't have any brothers, only sisters. (And no sons, only daughters. Not a lot of Y-Chromosomes in the family, it appears.) So no chance this is his brother brought in for a look-see.

Speckenbach died last year, so no chance to ask him, unfortunately.

By the way, it appears that he may have been a member of the Bill Sharman Society, being on the major league roster before the May '64 cut-down, but not appearing. If he was in the Dodgers minor league system, why wasn't he pitching? (The Cardinals used him at Rock Hill, apparently right from the start.) My guess is that the Dodgers put him on the big team to avoid exposing him to the $8000 first-year part of the Rule V draft (they had paid $100,000 for him, after all), kept him out of games, but when the arm wasn't coming around as much as they liked, they tried to get him through waivers and had to settle for the consolation payment.

I could have sworn that when I first went Googling there was also a link to a 4x5 B/W pic of Speckenbach, but I didn't grab it, and now I can't find that link. Sorry.

Merkle923 · 09-12-2015, 07:15 PM

Thanks for trying, but I saw the image. It's not Paul Speckenbach.

The Jhonny Richards story and Speckenbach's saga illustrate something that was quite common before the cut down to the 25-man roster was shifted from 30 days after the season opened, back to opening day. With all players who signed a bonus above a certain figure being immediately added to the 40-man roster, waivers were necessary to send them to the minors.

Many would be kept on the opening day 28-player roster and then sent down without having appeared in a big league game. The Dodgers not only lost Speckenbach that way in 1964, but another pitcher on the rookie card that also shows Jim Lefebvre in the 1965 set named Dennis Daboll also opened the year with L.A., never pitched, was sent out, claimed by the reds on waivers, and never appeared in the majors.

Lots of players you find on those late-series rookie cards of the '60s (like Jack McClure of the 1965 Astros) don't make sense until you understand the 28-Man roster, the May 15 cutdown day, and the first-year player/bonus rule.

SDL · 09-12-2015, 08:27 PM

When did they end the May 15 cut-down date rule?

I remember reading The Long Season and it was Phil Clark who got cut from the Cardinals on May 15.

Merkle923 · 09-13-2015, 10:26 AM

Other than post-strike/lockout years (1990 certainly and maybe 1995, can't recall) the last year carrying the three "extra" men was 1967.

As an example of the affect this had on rosters/ghosts, the Cubs opened the year with two pitchers, Tom Mandile and Alonso Olivares, who never appeared in a big league game. And the veteran catcher Chris Cannizzaro opened the same season with the Tigers, a team for which he never played.

rico43 · 09-13-2015, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDL

Are there any TV images of Al Downing as a Brewer? Thanks

The only answer I can provide is -- yes and no. The 1971 Topps card proves there are Downing Brewers photos out there. But I have not downloaded any, nor have they shown up on my checklists. Dodgers, A's and Yankees, we got.

I suggest patience. Someone might have happened upon one in a newer thread I have not checklisted.

KenRaffensberger16 · 09-13-2015, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merkle923

Other than post-strike/lockout years (1990 certainly and maybe 1995, can't recall) the last year carrying the three "extra" men was 1967.

As an example of the affect this had on rosters/ghosts, the Cubs opened the year with two pitchers, Tom Mandile and Alonso Olivares, who never appeared in a big league game. And the veteran catcher Chris Cannizzaro opened the same season with the Tigers, a team for which he never played.

Actually, I have a March or April 1968 Baseball Digest that details rule changes at the start of the season and it does mention that the 28 man roster to start the season would no longer be in effect in 1968. However, who knows when the 28 man season-opening roster practice began. My guess is around 1953 or 1954.

Merkle923 · 09-13-2015, 12:36 PM

Well, no, the existence of a Downing/Brewers Topps card proves nothing.

Plenty of examples in the archives of missing files, missing folders, missing years, missing shoots - or, most disappointingly of all, shoots in which there appeared to have been nothing but closed-eye or blurred images EXCEPT for the one used on the card in question.

Also, if Topps emptied the file folder of Downing and sold off images of him with LA, New York, and Oakland, while they often go back for a second round of eBay sales but I have yet to see them present images of a repeat player with a team they didn't sell earlier.

In short, the odds of a Downing/Brewer image turning up from Topps Vault are probably microscopic.

KenRaffensberger16 · 09-13-2015, 12:39 PM

Does anyone have any photos to share of Barney Schultz who passed away just after his 89th birthday. It took Schultz 12 years to reach the major leagues (Debut: Opening Day 1955 - 4/12/55) when he was approaching his 29th birthday.
Schultz may best be remembered by many as the pitcher who gave up a walk off home run to Mickey Mantle to decide Game 3 of the 1964 World Series. However, the St. Louis Cardinals would not have reached the series that year if not for 14 Saves by Schultz to go along with his miniscule 1.65 earned run average. Being part ot that 1964 World's Championship Cardinals team had to be the highlight of Schultz's career. Overall Schultz went
20-20, with a 3.63 e.r.a.
Schultz was ranked 97th among oldest living major leaguers by Wikipedia up until the time of his passing. In a very odd coincidence, Schultz's death on September 6 came exactly 50 years after his final MLB game appearance (Sept. 6, 1965).

SDL · 09-13-2015, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenRaffensberger16

Does anyone have any photos to share of Barney Schultz who passed away just after his 89th birthday. It took Schultz 12 years to reach the major leagues (Debut: Opening Day 1955 - 4/12/55) when he was approaching his 29th birthday.
Schultz may best be remembered by many as the pitcher who gave up a walk off home run to Mickey Mantle to decide Game 3 of the 1964 World Series. However, the St. Louis Cardinals would not have reached the series that year if not for 14 Saves by Schultz to go along with his miniscule 1.65 earned run average. Being part ot that 1964 World's Championship Cardinals team had to be the highlight of Schultz's career. Overall Schultz went
20-20, with a 3.63 e.r.a.
Schultz was ranked 97th among oldest living major leaguers by Wikipedia up until the time of his passing. In a very odd coincidence, Schultz's death on September 6 came exactly 50 years after his final MLB game appearance (Sept. 6, 1965).

rico43 · 09-13-2015, 07:25 PM

Maybe someone can take the yellow out...

Name: bw818.jpg
Views: 1141
Size: 36.1 KB

09-09-2015, 07:53 PM	#26041
rrb77 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,294	Les Cox 1926 Chicago White Sox ...... from current RMY auction. Last edited by rrb77; 09-15-2015 at 02:03 PM.

09-09-2015, 10:55 PM	#26042
Merkle923 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,185	Granny Hamner 1944 Didn't realize this was being sought till recently - the Whiz Kid in Cleveland garb 1959. Will to get a better copy of this one later. Last edited by Merkle923; 08-01-2017 at 11:50 PM.

09-11-2015, 09:57 AM	#26044
Cusick Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 4,313	Randy Speck Using newspaper searches, I found a first baseman Randy Speck with a 1962 high school team in Huntingdon, PA. That would be about the right timing, but I didn't find any association with the Cardinals nor even with professional baseball. He continued to play baseball in his home town into the 1970's with the VFW team there. Without the link to pro baseball, the possibility that he is the guy in the Cardinal photo is only speck-ulation.

09-11-2015, 11:02 AM	#26046
Pinetarpress Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 423	On E Bay Dr J Teee has a pic of Gary Martz with Harmon Killebrew of the Royals....not too many pics of Martz in a Royals uniform.... Attached Images

09-11-2015, 08:22 PM	#26048
rrb77 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,294	Howie Williamson 1928 STL Cardinals ....... from fedxit Last edited by rrb77; 09-15-2015 at 02:03 PM.

09-10-2015, 10:55 AM	#26043
okcochise All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 698	Fully updated seasonal zip files have been uploaded for baseball (1956-1973) along with an update only file with close to 600 new cards. Cards have also been uploaded for basketball (1968-1973 plus ABA 1970-73) and hockey (1966-1969, 1990). Game Front

09-11-2015, 10:19 AM	#26045
Merkle923 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,185	I'm assuming you didn't come across a photo of him, right? Because as speculative as this appears - there doesn't seem to be anybody in minor league history with a similar name (even something like "Andy Peck"), certainly nobody who played first base. And as I suggested above, if the Cardinals let a kid try out with them on the same day the Topps photographer happened to be there in 1963, I have no doubt Topps would've posed him.

09-11-2015, 01:03 PM	#26047
Merkle923 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,185	Wow. That's 100% of the non-photoshopped ones I've ever seen. He was literally there for one at bat.

09-11-2015, 08:53 PM	#26049
rrb77 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,294	Bobby Veach 1925 Washington Senators ....... current RMY auction Last edited by rrb77; 09-15-2015 at 02:03 PM.

09-12-2015, 01:48 PM	#26050
Cusick Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 4,313	Randy Speck & Johnny Richards The answer to your question, Merkle, is no, I didn't come across a photo of the Huntingdon, PA, Randy Speck. Shown below is an article from the San Diego Union of March 23, 1965. It shows that the way Johnny Richards moved from the Giants to the Astros was that the Giants were attempting to demote him to the minors, and the Astros claimed him. It also indicates that his home was in the Dominican Republic. Baseball-Reference.com doesn't given any place of origin for Richards. Attached Images

09-12-2015, 06:47 PM	#26051
Amazin69 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Palmetto Pride! Posts: 3,730 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	Re: "Randy Speck" Shouldn't we be considering a connection to Paul Speckenbach? PROS: • First name starts with "Pa", similar to "Ra" in a signature, perhaps. • Last name starts with "Speck", possibly the end trailed off/was deleted • In Cardinals system in 1964, playing for Rock Hill after being obtained on waivers from Dodgers • High-profile prospect (signed for $100,000 the night his high school class graduated in 1962, called "The New Bob Feller") before his arm troubles • Definitely photographed by Topps (shares 1964 Rookie Stars card with Wayne Schurr) CONS: •*Pitcher, not a first baseman. No evidence that Cards considered a position change. • Not obtained until the mid-May cut-down date, so wouldn't have been photographed in training camp. Unless it's 1965 rather than 1964. Or Topps had a photog wandering around Rock Hill, SC. • Didn't have any brothers, only sisters. (And no sons, only daughters. Not a lot of Y-Chromosomes in the family, it appears.) So no chance this is his brother brought in for a look-see. Speckenbach died last year, so no chance to ask him, unfortunately. By the way, it appears that he may have been a member of the Bill Sharman Society, being on the major league roster before the May '64 cut-down, but not appearing. If he was in the Dodgers minor league system, why wasn't he pitching? (The Cardinals used him at Rock Hill, apparently right from the start.) My guess is that the Dodgers put him on the big team to avoid exposing him to the $8000 first-year part of the Rule V draft (they had paid $100,000 for him, after all), kept him out of games, but when the arm wasn't coming around as much as they liked, they tried to get him through waivers and had to settle for the consolation payment. I could have sworn that when I first went Googling there was also a link to a 4x5 B/W pic of Speckenbach, but I didn't grab it, and now I can't find that link. Sorry.

09-12-2015, 07:15 PM	#26052
Merkle923 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,185	Thanks for trying, but I saw the image. It's not Paul Speckenbach. The Jhonny Richards story and Speckenbach's saga illustrate something that was quite common before the cut down to the 25-man roster was shifted from 30 days after the season opened, back to opening day. With all players who signed a bonus above a certain figure being immediately added to the 40-man roster, waivers were necessary to send them to the minors. Many would be kept on the opening day 28-player roster and then sent down without having appeared in a big league game. The Dodgers not only lost Speckenbach that way in 1964, but another pitcher on the rookie card that also shows Jim Lefebvre in the 1965 set named Dennis Daboll also opened the year with L.A., never pitched, was sent out, claimed by the reds on waivers, and never appeared in the majors. Lots of players you find on those late-series rookie cards of the '60s (like Jack McClure of the 1965 Astros) don't make sense until you understand the 28-Man roster, the May 15 cutdown day, and the first-year player/bonus rule.

09-12-2015, 08:27 PM	#26053
SDL Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 257	When did they end the May 15 cut-down date rule? I remember reading The Long Season and it was Phil Clark who got cut from the Cardinals on May 15.

09-13-2015, 10:26 AM	#26054
Merkle923 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,185	28-Man Roster Other than post-strike/lockout years (1990 certainly and maybe 1995, can't recall) the last year carrying the three "extra" men was 1967. As an example of the affect this had on rosters/ghosts, the Cubs opened the year with two pitchers, Tom Mandile and Alonso Olivares, who never appeared in a big league game. And the veteran catcher Chris Cannizzaro opened the same season with the Tigers, a team for which he never played.

09-13-2015, 12:36 PM	#26057
Merkle923 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,185	Well, no, the existence of a Downing/Brewers Topps card proves nothing. Plenty of examples in the archives of missing files, missing folders, missing years, missing shoots - or, most disappointingly of all, shoots in which there appeared to have been nothing but closed-eye or blurred images EXCEPT for the one used on the card in question. Also, if Topps emptied the file folder of Downing and sold off images of him with LA, New York, and Oakland, while they often go back for a second round of eBay sales but I have yet to see them present images of a repeat player with a team they didn't sell earlier. In short, the odds of a Downing/Brewer image turning up from Topps Vault are probably microscopic.

09-13-2015, 12:39 PM	#26058
KenRaffensberger16 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New jersey most of my life; Gulf Coast Florida since 2010. Posts: 422	Barney Schultz (1926-2015). Does anyone have any photos to share of Barney Schultz who passed away just after his 89th birthday. It took Schultz 12 years to reach the major leagues (Debut: Opening Day 1955 - 4/12/55) when he was approaching his 29th birthday. Schultz may best be remembered by many as the pitcher who gave up a walk off home run to Mickey Mantle to decide Game 3 of the 1964 World Series. However, the St. Louis Cardinals would not have reached the series that year if not for 14 Saves by Schultz to go along with his miniscule 1.65 earned run average. Being part ot that 1964 World's Championship Cardinals team had to be the highlight of Schultz's career. Overall Schultz went 20-20, with a 3.63 e.r.a. Schultz was ranked 97th among oldest living major leaguers by Wikipedia up until the time of his passing. In a very odd coincidence, Schultz's death on September 6 came exactly 50 years after his final MLB game appearance (Sept. 6, 1965). Last edited by KenRaffensberger16; 09-13-2015 at 12:41 PM.

09-13-2015, 07:25 PM	#26060
rico43 Banned Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chattanooga and Internet Posts: 476 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	Another Barney Maybe someone can take the yellow out...