Historical MLB/Minors roster and db issues go here

[LooneyOne]

Hey everyone .. idk if this belongs here or not, but i download new OOTP update and I noticed a few retired players are missing their "HOF Metrics" on their HISTORY, and also missing their LEADERBOARD APPEARANCES stats. for ex: Magglio Ordonez ..

[Spritze]

Not here is where it belongs.

Perhaps the rooster team?

I really have no idea. Normal state.

[mikecos23]

Anyone had any issues with the real draft pool from 1991 ? I've been on this save since 1978 and real players have imported fine into the draft class every year until 1991, now I am only seeing fictional SP/RP's who are all rated half or one star. Any theories ? I attached the CSV export. FYI I just upgraded to the latest patch this morning, but I didn't see anyone else having this issue. I'd really hate to lose this save.

[Spritze]

Things that various gamers/customers would like to see added or changed for AI controlled teams in Historical Minor League play.

1) The players better spread to their IRL teams. Since we have the info in the database perhaps instead of players being stuck retired or on reserve rosters those players could be put on their IRL teams just before the preseason starts. Sort of a not very free agent draft. Any players on an MLB active roster would stay where they are.
As it stands now some leagues only have 40 of their 140 player slots filled but some teams have 60 players on their reserve roster and this just does not feel right. Results in too many Jim Unknowns playing. The Roster file shows that there should be 23 players on the Lancaster roster. There are only 5 and none of those 5 are IRL Lancaster players.

2) Many pitching starting rotations remain empty even though the roster contains pitchers with high stamina and even sometimes SP designations. Plus for the minor leagues a stamina of 35 should be enough for a starter in training. Joe Unknown gets to start instead.

3) Perhaps some players from high level unaffiliated leagues (American Association, PCL, International League) could be added as free agents if #1 and #2 do not generate fuller teams. That might keep the Jerry Unknowns from taking over.

4) Some minor league player retirements seem very premature. The minor league retirement formula needs to allow for 20 year minor league careers especially during the way back years. It may be (in limited testing) that more players retire than get added which can lead to empty leagues and teams. Which creates slots for Josh Unknowns to take.

5) Another challenge is that the MLB can hoard players on their reserve rosters if they have no minor league teams to send them to. Even though IRL MLB teams may not have controlled minor league teams they often loaned them players while keeping control of the players reserve clause rights. OOTP does not currently support this so it uses reserve rosters instead. This needs to be changed.

6) Once a league gains traction from having an affiliated team it should stay in existence until it dissolves for good and forever during its nova implosion.

7) When we first see the rosters at the beginning of the game, the computer AI has already been run on those rosters, players have been signed, promoted, retired, etc. Is there any way to just keep that from happening until we've had a chance to sim at least one day?

8) Active roster sizes in the MiLB teams file are being ignored and all minor league teams are set to "No Limit" which also sucks up more real players leading to more Jan Unknowns playing at lower levels.

9) After September callups entire teams consist of Jay Unknowns. Same in the Spring if the MiLB season begins before the MLB season.

10) Reserve rosters get HUGE. They should be eliminated and players loaned out to the minor league teams that could sorely use them while the MLB team retains the players contract.

The commonest complaint seems to be that there are not enough real players available for the real teams. They keep getting filled by Mr. Unknown rather than real players. We have thousands of unused players in the database. Perhaps some should be activated.

[swampdragon]

5. I want the fielding spreads to reflect the real life differences in fielding ability just like every other skill. When they're all the same, something is wrong, just like if every hitter hit .250 or every pitcher had the same stuff rating.

If the stats don't exist, say so. I just want the major league fielding formula applied to the minors (without changing the major league formula. That was a true disaster that threatened time and space.).

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

5. I want the fielding spreads to reflect the real life differences in fielding ability just like every other skill. When they're all the same, something is wrong, just like if every hitter hit .250 or every pitcher had the same stuff rating.

If the stats don't exist, say so. I just want the major league fielding formula applied to the minors (without changing the major league formula. That was a true disaster that threatened time and space.).

Just curious, if the stats don't exist, couldn't minor league players be given fictional ratings in accordance to the fielding levels the MLB players achieved at the time? As long as these ratings don't turn mudflaps into instant MLB studs, I'm not going to know one way or another if Gern Blanstien of the 1922 Oakland Oaks was a Mark Belanger or a Tom Veryzer in real life. I know that goes against all things historical, but for me it's 100 times better than having all players rated 50. Especially in OOTP due to the way outcomes are determined.

[swampdragon]

Most of the players in the higher minors had at least a cup of coffee at some point. You could use their own ratings.

But part of the reason for doing this is to learn about Gern Blanstien of the 1922 Oakland Oaks. I want to know whether he was Tom Veryzer or Mark Belanger. I know most players who play historical sims emphasize the sim part of the equation. I put a lot more stock in the historical part of it. The wonder of historical minors is there are suddenly tens of thousands of new players I never heard of that I can put through their paces and learn about. Having the fielding all be the same kills my suspension of disbelief.

[Spritze]

In my tests fielding is most definitely NOT all the same. It covers the full range 20-80 but is usually 45-60 for most minor league players which is pretty average and not a very big range, only 4 slots. If you need to see non-average numbers for average players the only way would be to create a minor league fielding formula. AFAIK.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Just curious, if the stats don't exist, couldn't minor league players be given fictional ratings in accordance to the fielding levels the MLB players achieved at the time? They are in some cases As long as these ratings don't turn mudflaps into instant MLB studs, I'm not going to know one way or another if Gern Blanstien of the 1922 Oakland Oaks was a Mark Belanger or a Tom Veryzer in real life. I know that goes against all things historical, but for me it's 100 times better than having all players rated 50. Especially in OOTP due to the way outcomes are determined.

I still do NOT see ALL players rated 50.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Most of the players in the higher minors had at least a cup of coffee at some point. You could use their own ratings.
This is done in some cases
But part of the reason for doing this is to learn about Gern Blanstien of the 1922 Oakland Oaks. I want to know whether he was Tom Veryzer or Mark Belanger. I know most players who play historical sims emphasize the sim part of the equation. I put a lot more stock in the historical part of it. The wonder of historical minors is there are suddenly tens of thousands of new players I never heard of that I can put through their paces and learn about. Having the fielding all be the same kills my suspension of disbelief.

I still do NOT see ALL players in my leagues rated 50.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Spritze

I still do NOT see ALL players rated 50.

I think we are using the everyone at 50 as a reference to the 45-60. There are no extremely bad and no extremely great. No spread.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Most of the players in the higher minors had at least a cup of coffee at some point. You could use their own ratings.

But part of the reason for doing this is to learn about Gern Blanstien of the 1922 Oakland Oaks. I want to know whether he was Tom Veryzer or Mark Belanger. I know most players who play historical sims emphasize the sim part of the equation. I put a lot more stock in the historical part of it. The wonder of historical minors is there are suddenly tens of thousands of new players I never heard of that I can put through their paces and learn about. Having the fielding all be the same kills my suspension of disbelief.

This is true. I know you want to actually play the Texas League. Me, I want it to compliment my MLB replay. In the end, anything you are pushing for will only serve to make my experience better as well, so I'm 100% with you.

[David Watts]

Spritze, I think number 4 on your list is flat out huge. Players need to stick around longer. It's easy to see on baseball reference that lots of guys had long productive minor league careers well into their 30's.

I think the early minor leagues need to operate more as independent leagues than minor leagues. Unless we get some form of real transactions, these teams have to compete and sign players so their rosters remain full. Jim Unknown has to be a last resort. That being said, the MLB needs to compete for players as well. I'm not a huge fan of playing OOTP with injuries set below normal, so I want the big league teams to accumulate players as well. Right now when I play straight historical (no minors) I sim 4 or 5 seasons, erase all history and hold a draft. This gives me enough players (due to players not retiring according to history in OOTP) to keep injuries at normal. So, yes please see if we can get players to stick around longer.

I think Jim Unknown should only be used as an extreme last resort. No way on Oprah's green earth should Bubba Unknown take starts away from actual real life pitchers. So, yes please make the minor league teams use real pitchers over Slim Unknowns. Please.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I think we are using the everyone at 50 as a reference to the 45-60. There are no extremely bad and no extremely great. No spread.

Thank you. I have been assuming I just was too dumb to figure out how to see what you fellas see.

It may be that the good 1919 Texas League fielders are trapped on MLB reserve rosters hence request #1 in my post.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Spritze

Thank you. I have been assuming I just was too dumb to figure out how to see what you fellas see.

It may be that the good 1919 Texas League fielders are trapped on MLB reserve rosters hence request #1 in my post.

I can never tell when you are being sarcastic or taking a shot

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Spritze

Thank you. I have been assuming I just was too dumb to figure out how to see what you fellas see.

It may be that the good 1919 Texas League fielders are trapped on MLB reserve rosters hence request #1 in my post.

This is why I think we need the early minor leagues to operate more as independent leagues than minor leagues. I have no problem with players going to their correct teams. If we could ever get OOTP to fix the sign and release problem, reserve roster could be limited and that would solve a ton of the hoarding issues. But, seeing a guy like Ernie Banks get released due to the AI having to make a reserve roster decision isn't any fun either.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I can never tell when you are being sarcastic or taking a shot

Neither. I always assumed you were seeing something I could not figure out how to reproduce. It is nice to know that was not the case. I am a very literal fella so everyone=50 means exactly that to me.

[Spritze]

The leagues and the majority of teams are independent until the mid-60's. The challenge is that the MLB can hoard players on their reserve rosters if they have no minor league teams to send them to. Even though IRL MLB teams may not have controlled minor league teams they often loaned them players while keeping control of the players reserve clause rights. OOTP does not currently support this so it uses reserve rosters instead.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Spritze

The leagues and the majority of teams are independent until the mid-60's. The challenge is that the MLB can hoard players on their reserve rosters if they have no minor league teams to send them to. Even though IRL MLB teams may not have controlled minor league teams they often loaned them players while keeping control of the players reserve clause rights. OOTP does not currently support this so it uses reserve rosters instead.

The players are definitely on rosters. When I get to 1921 and the PCL forms without players, it's never with a ton a free agents available The list of free agents is usually extremely limited. Sim through 21 and get to 22. The PCL will still be empty except for the Angels, but again the list of free agents is very limited. There just needs to be a way to distribute the players.

For me, ML teams without minor league affiliates should maintain at least a 25-30 man reserve roster. My aim is to play with injuries at normal or higher. After that, all other players should find their way on to minor league rosters. I really think this would happen if players didn't retire prematurely.

I'm currently playing a 1906 MLB league. I created the league in 1901. Simmed ahead till preseason 1906. I then erased all history and held a draft. Of course, doing this in a straight historical won't mess anything up history wise, because there is no penalty for erasing all history. Using real minors doesn't allow this though. If I start in 1919 and say Hal Chase played prior to 1919, but missed the 1919 season, he will show up with all his stats in 1920. So, I get a league with a Hal Chase leaderboard. It seems to me, that if we were allowed to erase history---we could sim enough years ahead to build up enough real life retired/non OOTP retired guys to make roster fuller. I think I'm rambling, but I hope it makes sense.

[David Watts]

Another thing I've yet to fully comprehend is, if we have it set to no draft and have players appear on their correct teams, why am I not seeing any players appear on the PCL teams. Shouldn't at least the new PCL debut players be placed on the correct teams?