Official OOTP 22 initial impressions thread! - Page 3

timmermac · 03-23-2021, 03:32 PM

Player models in game look really nice. Liking how the camera follows the play a bit more.

tward13 · 03-23-2021, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

This totally depends on the level you have the trade ai set. Easy, you'll see stuff like this. But on the harder levels, you should not see it at all. There's an option for whatever difficulty you want and we put a lot of effort into increasing the gradients in the trade difficulty settings and making them far more customizable this year than ever before.

That being said, you also mentioned something key. You said 'overrated'. Which to translate, actually means 'highly rated' in-game (whether you think that's justified or not). As has been said a lot here over the years, the ai doesn't know names, it goes by the numbers.

Trade difficulty is set halfway between middle and high.

I meant overrated. Whoever rated the player is not reflecting his recent history of injury and reduced velocity. But if anyone thinks Betances for Bauer or Altuve is realistic, good for you.

THEMURPH · 03-23-2021, 03:42 PM

Staff Search is Great. Thank You Thank You.

Lukas Berger · 03-23-2021, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

Trade difficulty is set halfway between middle and high.

I meant overrated. Whoever rated the player is not reflecting his recent history of injury and reduced velocity. But if anyone thinks Betances for Bauer or Altuve is realistic, good for you.

ZIPS does the base ratings, so please feel free to take it up with Dan Szymborski

We do adjust them where needed, as you should see with Betances velocity being between his more recent low levels and his previous high levels.

Guys like this are hard to know just how much to adjust, because without a crystal ball, it's almost impossible to say whether they are completely cooked or they can bounce back and regain their velocity losses with some time.

tward13 · 03-23-2021, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

ZIPS does the base ratings, so please feel free to take it up with Dan Szymborski

We do adjust them where needed, as you should see with Betances velocity being between his more recent low levels and his previous high levels.

Guys like this are hard to know just how much to adjust, because without a crystal ball, it's almost impossible to say whether they are completely cooked or they can bounce back and regain their velocity losses with some time.

So you're saying the game should see him as an even trade for Bauer or Altuve?

With the trade difficulty set to anything but the highest level I can get Altuve or Bauer. I can get Myers at any level

MizzouRah · 03-23-2021, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

So you're saying the game should see him as an even trade for Bauer or Altuve?

Increase the trade difficulty.

tward13 · 03-23-2021, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Increase the trade difficulty.

With the trade difficulty set to anything but the highest level I can get Altuve or Bauer. I can get Myers at any level

Bluenoser · 03-23-2021, 03:50 PM

Very nice - I converted a 36 team league, 4 levels of minors, uni's n images at all levels, 106 seasons played. Took just over 20 minutes.

Very reasonable amount of time.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-23-2021, 03:55 PM

Thanks guys! Happy you are having a fun time!!

Lukas Berger · 03-23-2021, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

So you're saying the game should see him as an even trade for Bauer or Altuve?

With the trade difficulty set to anything but the highest level I can get Altuve or Bauer. I can get Myers at any level

To enlarge even further, it completely depends on a great deal of factors.

-The actual ratings in-game, even if you think specific players are 'overrated' or 'underrated'.

-Whether you have scouting on on not (and it's on by default), If it's on, it can distort the ratings beyond what they truly are, devaluing some guys and overvaluing others, which will happen randomly each game.

-The level of trade difficulty you've set.

-The amount of value you have the AI set placing on stats as opposed to ratings.

-The contracts of the players involved and the financial state of the teams involved, which also varies as soon as you've simmed even a day.

This matters a great deal, as it's very likely the AI sees Bauer for example, as a negative value player who is being paid more than he will ever be worth and so is a net negative value to them.

There are likely a lot of real MLB teams that see him this way too, otherwise someone would have outbid the Dodgers for him, if they thought he was actually worth what he is getting paid.

Lukas Berger · 03-23-2021, 04:00 PM

So, long story short, it's overly simplistic to say 'this guy wouldn't get traded for this other guy in real life, so the game should make the exact same choice those specific real life teams would make.'

Each real life team has their own option on player values, which can often vary wildly and the game has its own 'opinion' as well, which varies based on countless factors I've mentioned and others I didn't even touch on.

Germaniac · 03-23-2021, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Fast downloads are always good

Fast downloads only are good when the game is great ... and yes, it is

tward13 · 03-23-2021, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

To enlarge even further, it completely depends on a great deal of factors.

-The actual ratings in-game, even if you think specific players are 'overrated' or 'underrated'.

-Whether you have scouting on on not (and it's on by default), If it's on, it can distort the ratings beyond what they truly are, devaluing some guys and overvaluing others, which will happen randomly each game.

-The level of trade difficulty you've set.

-The amount of value you have the AI set placing on stats as opposed to ratings.

-The contracts of the players involved and the financial state of the teams involved, which also varies as soon as you've simmed even a day.

This matters a great deal, as it's very likely the AI sees Bauer for example, as a negative value player who is being paid more than he will ever be worth and so is a net negative value to them.

There are likely a lot of real MLB teams that see him this way too, otherwise someone would have outbid the Dodgers for him, if they thought he was actually worth what he is getting paid.

Scouting is off.

I reduced it to 50 percent based on ratings.

I haven't simmed a day.

The Dodgers just signed Bauer, they really aren't trading him for anyone this side of Trout, Soto or deGrom. Altuve, I'm not sure about the contract situation with Houston, but he sure as heck brings back more than Dellin Betances.

Risk2014 · 03-23-2021, 04:04 PM

Is it me or the Trades are very hard to make? I even decreased the difficulty of the AI to its lowest level and favor veterans. Still very hard to do. Plus the trading draft picks option does not work? Unless I have to advance one day. I just started my franchise and its the first day.

tward13 · 03-23-2021, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

So, long story short, it's overly simplistic to say 'this guy wouldn't get traded for this other guy in real life, so the game should make the exact same choice those specific real life teams would make.'

Each real life team has their own option on player values, which can often vary wildly and the game has its own 'opinion' as well, which varies based on countless factors I've mentioned and others I didn't even touch on.

What I'm suggesting is that the trade AI may need to be tweaked. The game shouldn't make exact same choices, but it surely should not make ridiculous choices.

I'm sorry I didn't come here with blind praise. But this was the first thing I noticed as I tried a few different things.

qldtiger · 03-23-2021, 04:06 PM

Pack opening screen in PT looks a little odd. Stadium doesn't quite take up the whole screen (black stripe on the right hand side) the and the sound effects don't sync up correctly to the card displaying.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-23-2021, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qldtiger

Pack opening screen in PT looks a little odd. Stadium doesn't quite take up the whole screen (black stripe on the right hand side) the and the sound effects don't sync up correctly to the card displaying.

See here: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...98&postcount=2

Sound effects will be fixed

Lukas Berger · 03-23-2021, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

The Dodgers just signed Bauer, they really aren't trading him for anyone this side of Trout, Soto or deGrom. Altuve, I'm not sure about the contract situation with Houston, but he sure as heck brings back more than Dellin Betances.

Yeah, but the AI is not the Dodgers (or the Astros). That's their opinion of him, but the AI has its own opinion, which can be completely different, based on all the factors I mentioned.

It's not possible or even remotely realistic to create an AI that somehow mimics the exact specific opinions of each MLB front office and will only trade the guys they would trade for the guys they want to trade for.

A lot of folks think Bauer is super overrated and wouldn't touch him on his current contract, others think he's worth every penny the Dodgers paid. The AI obviously falls more into the 'overrated' camp than it agrees with the Dodgers.

mtopham · 03-23-2021, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jparker2112

where are the mac files stored for this version? It seems to change each year and i can never find em.

Sam place as they had in v20 - not the convoluted place in the last version.

I see them at:

User>Application Support>OOTP 22

Matt Arnold · 03-23-2021, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

What I'm suggesting is that the trade AI may need to be tweaked. The game shouldn't make exact same choices, but it surely should not make ridiculous choices.

I'm sorry I didn't come here with blind praise. But this was the first thing I noticed as I tried a few different things.

We welcome any feedback, no worries there. I'm sure we will revisit the trading AI - there's always pieces that could be improved on there. As Lukas said, though, it's very hard to get things 100%, especially with individual cases. Like, you have mentioned Myers multiple times - other than some sentimental attachment, Myers is definitely a guy who is kind of marginalized on their team who I think they would absolutely deal for bullpen help. The other cases of Altuve or Bauer should probably be held onto more by the AI there, I'd agree, and we will keep looking for ways to avoid deals like that if we can. Just always hard to balance that with them being too stubborn to deal away some guys when they might enjoy the salary relief

03-23-2021, 03:32 PM	#41
timmermac Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 449	Player models in game look really nice. Liking how the camera follows the play a bit more. __________________ Running with the 1950 Braves. Crush the baseball. Drive it before you. And hear the lamentation of the opponent's women. I am king of the diamond! Let there be a grand clubhouse feast! Bring me the finest meats and cheeses in all the land!

03-23-2021, 03:55 PM	#49
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,806	Thanks guys! Happy you are having a fun time!! __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

03-23-2021, 04:00 PM	#51
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 21,068	So, long story short, it's overly simplistic to say 'this guy wouldn't get traded for this other guy in real life, so the game should make the exact same choice those specific real life teams would make.' Each real life team has their own option on player values, which can often vary wildly and the game has its own 'opinion' as well, which varies based on countless factors I've mentioned and others I didn't even touch on. __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com PreOrder Out of the Park Baseball 26! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here

03-23-2021, 04:04 PM	#54
Risk2014 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 212 Blog Entries: 2 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Is it me or the Trades are very hard to make? I even decreased the difficulty of the AI to its lowest level and favor veterans. Still very hard to do. Plus the trading draft picks option does not work? Unless I have to advance one day. I just started my franchise and its the first day. Last edited by Risk2014; 03-23-2021 at 04:08 PM.

03-23-2021, 03:42 PM	#43
THEMURPH Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: KANSAS Posts: 127	Staff Search is Great. Thank You Thank You.

03-23-2021, 03:50 PM	#48
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,075	Very nice - I converted a 36 team league, 4 levels of minors, uni's n images at all levels, 106 seasons played. Took just over 20 minutes. Very reasonable amount of time.

03-23-2021, 04:06 PM	#56
qldtiger Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 4	Pack opening screen in PT looks a little odd. Stadium doesn't quite take up the whole screen (black stripe on the right hand side) the and the sound effects don't sync up correctly to the card displaying.