Minimums warning Random Debuts

David Watts · 06-03-2022, 09:51 AM

I often use 1901 as a minimum year when doing random debut leagues. I'm not a huge fan of pre1900 baseball, so it's never really bothered me that I don't have those guys in my leagues.

That being said, I did discover something last week that pretty much does away with the 1901 minimum option. I had a small random debut league setup with 1901 as my minimum. As I approached the middle of the season, I discovered a 26 year old Cy Young was riding the reserve roster of one of the teams in my league. I was stunned. I pulled him up and he was a one star pitcher with I think 5 star potential. Thing is, if you looked at his real stats, his career only displayed from 1901 forward. So, I'm guessing Young was as of the moment not subject to recalc and wouldn't be for 5 or 6 more seasons.

I'm not sure if this is something that just started happening, or if it's been there all along and I just never noticed it. I think from now on I will just use the pre 1900 hundred guys, so this will be a non issue.

Beirnej1 · 06-03-2022, 10:07 AM

It has been there. This is one of the reasons I stopped trying to start unique leagues using random players from certain time periods

Reed · 06-04-2022, 06:26 AM

Interesting. I have a unique way of starting my league so don’t have this problem or the problem of having 30 year old stars like Mays showing up in the inaugural draft. But I do have players that played in the early 1900s in my league using their stats from1901-.

Anyway, back to your observation. How did Cy Young show up in your league anyway? When you start a league with the initial setting of random 1901-xxxx you can actually have a a handful of players like CyYoung or Frank Chance show up in your inaugural draft(debut prior to 1901 but played in 1901 or later)? But if these players that actually debut before 1901 don’t show up the inaugural draft, then they never show up? I always assumed only players that debut in 1901 or later would be in the inaugural draft.

Reed · 06-04-2022, 06:26 AM

Delete double post.

David Watts · 06-04-2022, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

Interesting. I have a unique way of starting my league so don’t have this problem or the problem of having 30 year old stars like Mays showing up in the inaugural draft. But I do have players that played in the early 1900s in my league using their stats from1901-.

Anyway, back to your observation. How did Cy Young show up in your league anyway? When you start a league with the initial setting of random 1901-xxxx you can actually have a a handful of players like CyYoung or Frank Chance show up in your inaugural draft(debut prior to 1901 but played in 1901 or later)? But if these players that actually debut before 1901 don’t show up the inaugural draft, then they never show up? I always assumed only players that debut in 1901 or later would be in the inaugural draft.

That was my belief as well. But, in this league Young was part of the inaugural draft at the age of 26. But, if you look at his real stats, it only displays the years from 1901 forward. Young was 34 in 1901. Based on the fact that he was riding the reserve roster instead of participating, makes me believe he was not subject to recalc. Scrapped the league, as having one of the best pitchers riding the reserve roster at the age he won 33 games, didn't make it worth continuing. I will simply not use minimums from now on.

Reed · 06-04-2022, 10:20 AM

It take me 2-3 hours to set up a random league but I like the results.
Start regular historic league in 1895.
Under historical tab set for random debut 1896-1900 (will explain why later).
Turn injuries off for now.
UNCLICK players miss season according to history and UNCLICK players retire according to history.
Turn development on (I use combination 3 yr recalc and development).
Under rules tab set rookie draft for 10 rounds. There were about 310 players that debut between 1896-1900 or just over 19 draft rounds. With 10 round rookie draft all those players will be drafted in 2 years or by the end of 1896.
Spring 1897 under historical tab change random debut years to 1901-present.
Under rules change draft rounds to 6 or whatever you normally use.

Spring 1900 is my busy time and takes a couple hours.
Go through and delete all players (over 100) from league that DID NOT play IRL in 1901 or later! Some teams might be short of players after deleting so many so I release all player and let AI do an inaugural draft. Should have about 500 players available
Go into league functions and delete/reset ALL 8 tabs on bottom left (service time, injuries, league history, etc.).
I generally use 1984 as my base year for stats so go in stats & AI tab and on left side set 1984 as my year, go to day before opening day and set 1984, go through and uncheck the automatic update things.
Fast sim to end of year and check stats to make sure it looks reasonable.

Go to spring 1901. At this time my league will have all the players that played in 1901 that are in their prime or are about to retire or missed 1901 due to injury IRL but showed up a year or 2 later (Jimmy Ryan, Dan Brothers, etc.). My league also has almost 400 youngsters (or just entering their prime) that debut IRL 1901-present.
I again go into league functions and delete ALL 8 items on bottom left.
Not necessary but I usually release all players and do an inaugural draft.
I make sure my schedule is correct.
Set injury setting to whatever.
Go to day before opening day, set 1984 for modifiers and off we go.
This way I have Wagner, Lajoie or Waddell being league leaders with a young Willie Mays or Lou Brock. It is a little weird to see Charlie Hickman or Mike Donlin lead the league in Home Runs for a couple years.
The only thing that seems weird to me is Pete Dowling often gets 4 or 5 cy Young awards before he retires and sometimes he doesn’t do anything. I admit that if he is playing lights out after a couple seasons, I go into his editor and change his ratings. That’s the only player I modify.
Anyway, that is basically how I start out. I may have missed 1 or 2 minor steps.

Reed · 06-04-2022, 10:21 AM

Not implying this is the best way to start a league but it works for me.
It gets the players that played in the early 1900s in the game and it gets rid of the problem of starting a league with some stars post 1901 starting while they are in or past their prime.

bwiese3908 · 06-09-2022, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

Not implying this is the best way to start a league but it works for me.
It gets the players that played in the early 1900s in the game and it gets rid of the problem of starting a league with some stars post 1901 starting while they are in or past their prime.

You wouldn't happen to have a quick start or template would you? Especially after you do the work of removing the fictional player.

Would love to try it out.

Reed · 06-09-2022, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwiese3908

You wouldn't happen to have a quick start or template would you? Especially after you do the work of removing the fictional player.

Would love to try it out.

I am sorry but I don't. And with my Mac/OOTP23 issues, have gone back to OOTP 22. None of the players are fictional, all real players but I remove the ones that didn't play in 1901 or later.
MY current league was quicker to set up and I think working out a little better I did a couple things different.

Things I did different.
Started regular season in 1894 instead of 1895 since there were a handful of players that played in 94 but missed the 95 season and played later on. Starting in 1894 captures those players.
In spring of 1895 (or just after season end) set rookie draft to 20 with random players from 1896-1900. This will capture all the players that debut between 1896-1900.
Spring of 1896, set rookie draft to 6 rounds or whatever number you usually
use and set random debut to 1901-present.
At seasons end of 1896 BEFORE rookie draft, delete all players that did not play in 1901 or later. Doing it at this time means you have a lot fewer players to go through. After doing this all the players in your league will have played IRL in 1901 or later and those stats will be used by the game. You may want to backup your league at this time also,
If you decide to try, I hope you enjoy it. I really enjoy playing this way.

bwiese3908 · 06-09-2022, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

I am sorry but I don't. And with my Mac/OOTP23 issues, have gone back to OOTP 22. None of the players are fictional, all real players but I remove the ones that didn't play in 1901 or later.
MY current league was quicker to set up and I think working out a little better I did a couple things different.

Things I did different.
Started regular season in 1894 instead of 1895 since there were a handful of players that played in 94 but missed the 95 season and played later on. Starting in 1894 captures those players.
In spring of 1895 (or just after season end) set rookie draft to 20 with random players from 1896-1900. This will capture all the players that debut between 1896-1900.
Spring of 1896, set rookie draft to 6 rounds or whatever number you usually
use and set random debut to 1901-present.
At seasons end of 1896 BEFORE rookie draft, delete all players that did not play in 1901 or later. Doing it at this time means you have a lot fewer players to go through. After doing this all the players in your league will have played IRL in 1901 or later and those stats will be used by the game. You may want to backup your league at this time also,
If you decide to try, I hope you enjoy it. I really enjoy playing this way.

Going to hopefully have the time to give it a shot this weekend... Bummer you are having issues with 23...If i get it up and running I will post a quick save

Hoiles · 06-10-2022, 07:18 AM

In OOTP21, I did something similar where I created a random debut league, erased all the players. Then I imported all players who appeared in 1901 (through a .csv modified from the master.csv through some Excel filtering), and added an early amateur draft to get players from 1902-onwards, then changed the draft back to the default December date later on.

Reed · 06-11-2022, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoiles

In OOTP21, I did something similar where I created a random debut league, erased all the players. Then I imported all players who appeared in 1901 (through a .csv modified from the master.csv through some Excel filtering), and added an early amateur draft to get players from 1902-onwards, then changed the draft back to the default December date later on.

There are so many options and hidden little gems that users have. Thanks for posting this.

Hoiles · 06-11-2022, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

There are so many options and hidden little gems that users have. Thanks for posting this.

Always nice to see there's someone with the same taste in historical leagues as I have. For what it's worth, Pete Dowling was also a monster in my league, I remember he and Shane Bieber killed my team.

Reed · 06-12-2022, 08:13 AM

I like playing historical because players will pop up doing well in my OOTP universe who I don’t know. I usually do a search about them and learn more about their history.

Pete Dowling is a perfect example
IRL he was probably an average pitcher with a lot of talent but he had a drinking problem. He apparently was arrested several times for drunkenness. He was 24 years old in 1901 his last season in MLB. He signed a contract for 1902 but there was a clause that he had to stay sober. Just before season start, he realized he wouldn’t stay sober and quit. He went to California and joined an independent team. While in California he saved 3 guys from drowning. When he was 28, he went to the train station to catch a train. He missed his train though (allegedly he was drunk). He decided to walk on the train tracks and got about a mile from the station when he got hit by a train and his head was severed in the accident.
A good trivia question. Pete Dowling had the first no hitter in the American League but there was some controversy about it. During the game, the other team got one hit but after the game, the scorer changed it to an error. MLB recognizes it as the leagues first no hitter.

italyprof · 02-22-2023, 11:43 AM

Thanks Reed, for this lesson on how to do this. Very helpful. And for the history lesson on poor Dowling. He lives on in our games.

06-03-2022, 09:51 AM	#1
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,608 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Minimums warning Random Debuts I often use 1901 as a minimum year when doing random debut leagues. I'm not a huge fan of pre1900 baseball, so it's never really bothered me that I don't have those guys in my leagues. That being said, I did discover something last week that pretty much does away with the 1901 minimum option. I had a small random debut league setup with 1901 as my minimum. As I approached the middle of the season, I discovered a 26 year old Cy Young was riding the reserve roster of one of the teams in my league. I was stunned. I pulled him up and he was a one star pitcher with I think 5 star potential. Thing is, if you looked at his real stats, his career only displayed from 1901 forward. So, I'm guessing Young was as of the moment not subject to recalc and wouldn't be for 5 or 6 more seasons. I'm not sure if this is something that just started happening, or if it's been there all along and I just never noticed it. I think from now on I will just use the pre 1900 hundred guys, so this will be a non issue.

06-04-2022, 06:26 AM	#3
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	Interesting. I have a unique way of starting my league so don’t have this problem or the problem of having 30 year old stars like Mays showing up in the inaugural draft. But I do have players that played in the early 1900s in my league using their stats from1901-. Anyway, back to your observation. How did Cy Young show up in your league anyway? When you start a league with the initial setting of random 1901-xxxx you can actually have a a handful of players like CyYoung or Frank Chance show up in your inaugural draft(debut prior to 1901 but played in 1901 or later)? But if these players that actually debut before 1901 don’t show up the inaugural draft, then they never show up? I always assumed only players that debut in 1901 or later would be in the inaugural draft. Last edited by Reed; 06-04-2022 at 06:43 AM.

06-04-2022, 06:26 AM	#4
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	Delete double post. Last edited by Reed; 06-04-2022 at 06:29 AM.

06-04-2022, 10:20 AM	#6
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	It take me 2-3 hours to set up a random league but I like the results. Start regular historic league in 1895. Under historical tab set for random debut 1896-1900 (will explain why later). Turn injuries off for now. UNCLICK players miss season according to history and UNCLICK players retire according to history. Turn development on (I use combination 3 yr recalc and development). Under rules tab set rookie draft for 10 rounds. There were about 310 players that debut between 1896-1900 or just over 19 draft rounds. With 10 round rookie draft all those players will be drafted in 2 years or by the end of 1896. Spring 1897 under historical tab change random debut years to 1901-present. Under rules change draft rounds to 6 or whatever you normally use. Spring 1900 is my busy time and takes a couple hours. Go through and delete all players (over 100) from league that DID NOT play IRL in 1901 or later! Some teams might be short of players after deleting so many so I release all player and let AI do an inaugural draft. Should have about 500 players available Go into league functions and delete/reset ALL 8 tabs on bottom left (service time, injuries, league history, etc.). I generally use 1984 as my base year for stats so go in stats & AI tab and on left side set 1984 as my year, go to day before opening day and set 1984, go through and uncheck the automatic update things. Fast sim to end of year and check stats to make sure it looks reasonable. Go to spring 1901. At this time my league will have all the players that played in 1901 that are in their prime or are about to retire or missed 1901 due to injury IRL but showed up a year or 2 later (Jimmy Ryan, Dan Brothers, etc.). My league also has almost 400 youngsters (or just entering their prime) that debut IRL 1901-present. I again go into league functions and delete ALL 8 items on bottom left. Not necessary but I usually release all players and do an inaugural draft. I make sure my schedule is correct. Set injury setting to whatever. Go to day before opening day, set 1984 for modifiers and off we go. This way I have Wagner, Lajoie or Waddell being league leaders with a young Willie Mays or Lou Brock. It is a little weird to see Charlie Hickman or Mike Donlin lead the league in Home Runs for a couple years. The only thing that seems weird to me is Pete Dowling often gets 4 or 5 cy Young awards before he retires and sometimes he doesn’t do anything. I admit that if he is playing lights out after a couple seasons, I go into his editor and change his ratings. That’s the only player I modify. Anyway, that is basically how I start out. I may have missed 1 or 2 minor steps. Last edited by Reed; 06-05-2022 at 06:25 AM.

06-04-2022, 10:21 AM	#7
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	Not implying this is the best way to start a league but it works for me. It gets the players that played in the early 1900s in the game and it gets rid of the problem of starting a league with some stars post 1901 starting while they are in or past their prime. Last edited by Reed; 06-04-2022 at 10:31 AM.

06-03-2022, 10:07 AM	#2
Beirnej1 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 115	It has been there. This is one of the reasons I stopped trying to start unique leagues using random players from certain time periods

06-10-2022, 07:18 AM	#11
Hoiles All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 574	In OOTP21, I did something similar where I created a random debut league, erased all the players. Then I imported all players who appeared in 1901 (through a .csv modified from the master.csv through some Excel filtering), and added an early amateur draft to get players from 1902-onwards, then changed the draft back to the default December date later on.

06-12-2022, 08:13 AM	#14
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	I like playing historical because players will pop up doing well in my OOTP universe who I don’t know. I usually do a search about them and learn more about their history. Pete Dowling is a perfect example IRL he was probably an average pitcher with a lot of talent but he had a drinking problem. He apparently was arrested several times for drunkenness. He was 24 years old in 1901 his last season in MLB. He signed a contract for 1902 but there was a clause that he had to stay sober. Just before season start, he realized he wouldn’t stay sober and quit. He went to California and joined an independent team. While in California he saved 3 guys from drowning. When he was 28, he went to the train station to catch a train. He missed his train though (allegedly he was drunk). He decided to walk on the train tracks and got about a mile from the station when he got hit by a train and his head was severed in the accident. A good trivia question. Pete Dowling had the first no hitter in the American League but there was some controversy about it. During the game, the other team got one hit but after the game, the scorer changed it to an error. MLB recognizes it as the leagues first no hitter.

02-22-2023, 11:43 AM	#15
italyprof All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,024	Thanks Reed, for this lesson on how to do this. Very helpful. And for the history lesson on poor Dowling. He lives on in our games.