Expansion draft

sexycast · 10-04-2023, 01:29 PM

I began my new season in 1992. Currently, I've reached 2026, and I've made the decision to introduce two expansion teams. My main query pertains to whether there will be an Expansion Draft for these two teams, as I couldn't find any information regarding the occurrence of such a draft.

Thank you

snepp · 10-04-2023, 10:15 PM

If you use the in-game function to expand, then yes an expansion draft will get scheduled. I believe the function is actually title "Expand league and schedule expansion draft."

If the function is used on the first day of the offseason the expansion draft should get scheduled for the day after free agency begins.

sexycast · 10-05-2023, 09:37 AM

It works, thank you

progen · 10-05-2023, 10:47 AM

This is the only way anymore that I play the game. You'll have a blast taking over an expansion team. Nice challenge building a team from square one. Unlike some, I make the challenge harder by allowing teams to protect at least 25, sometimes 26-27. In the real world, MLB would do it differently, so the expansion teams don't lose 100 games or more the first year. But the fun of this game is you can create the rules any way you want.

I also do 4 years of service instead of 3. I found that doing three years, allows too many really good young players to be exposed. And I usually do 30 rounds for the expansion draft. Right now, in my current save I have Montreal and Orlando. Have fun!

Pelican · 10-13-2023, 04:22 PM

I would allow teams to protect 12-15 players, with those with less than three (or four) years experience exempt. (MLB would never do this.) This will yield better expansion teams, with a decent chance at .500. It will also impact the deeper teams, who stand to lose the most good players. The AI sees this and makes some trades to compensate. And the AI makes the sensible choice of exposing older players and those with huge contracts. So it is not all rosy for the drafting expansion teams. I also make sure that the expansion teams have budgets similar to the established teams, so they can sign free agents. I let the expansion teams go first in the amateur draft.

If established teams can protect 25 players, plus all their younger players in terms of service, the draft pool will be truly awful, no better than AAA, and none of the best prospects. Those expansion teams will lose 100+ games, no matter what. That is no fun and no challenge to me. YMMV.

Brad K · 10-18-2023, 12:38 AM

Assuming a consistent goal on how many games first year expansion teams should win, how many players to protect needs to be adjusted depending on league size. A standard number of players protected doesn't work for every situation. Existing teams in a large league should protect more players than existing teams in a small league.

Also the number of expansion teams matters. If there are two expansion teams existing teams should protect more players than if there are four.

Other things equal league with free agency should allow fewer protected players than one without it. Free agents cannot be drafted but don't have to be on a protection list meaning their former teams can protect other players who would not otherwise be protected.

Anyway, the evaluation process should start with how good it is desired the expansion teams to be not what talent would be lost by existing teams.

progen · 10-18-2023, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelican

I would allow teams to protect 12-15 players, with those with less than three (or four) years experience exempt. (MLB would never do this.) This will yield better expansion teams, with a decent chance at .500. It will also impact the deeper teams, who stand to lose the most good players. The AI sees this and makes some trades to compensate. And the AI makes the sensible choice of exposing older players and those with huge contracts. So it is not all rosy for the drafting expansion teams. I also make sure that the expansion teams have budgets similar to the established teams, so they can sign free agents. I let the expansion teams go first in the amateur draft.

If established teams can protect 25 players, plus all their younger players in terms of service, the draft pool will be truly awful, no better than AAA, and none of the best prospects. Those expansion teams will lose 100+ games, no matter what. That is no fun and no challenge to me. YMMV.

I don't mind struggling the first two to three years. First year, yeah, I lost 100 games or close to it. But I like the challenge. In your scenario, with only 12-15 players protected, I'd expect to be at least playing five hundred ball the first season, and in the playoffs the following season, and in the World Series in year three, four at the worst. Not much of a challenge really. But, to each his own. Arizona is definitely the exception here, winning 100 games in their second season.

Seattle: 1977 - 64-98, 1978 - 56-104, 1979 - 67-95
Toronto: 1977 - 54-107, 1978 - 59-102, 1979 - 53-109

Colorado - 1993 - 67-95
Miami - 1993 - 64-98

Tampa Bay - 1998 - 63-99
Arizona - 1998 - 65-97

Brad K · 10-18-2023, 10:30 PM

If all you're considering is the number of players existing teams can protect getting the result you want is mostly chance.

Pelican · 10-19-2023, 10:55 PM

I would disagree that expansion teams in my scenario benefit after their first year. I don’t necessarily see that happening. Sometimes they regress, particularly if they opted for older veteran players whose skills are declining.

What really matters going forward is how those expansion teams set up their organizations, minor league coaches, drafts, finding minor league free agents. Beyond the players taken in the expansion draft, and their first amateur draftees, expansion teams will have a void at the A and AA levels and lack depth at AAA. The only option is to fill these teams with players let go by the other major league organizations. These players will not be very good.

It would be more realistic for new teams to start out with lower minor league teams, a year or two or three before the first season for the MLB expansion club. That way, they could gradually add younger players and begin to develop them. It is laborious in OOTP, but I have at least managed to field one minor league team (technically unaffiliated) for each expansion team, one year early. It helps.

Absent this “early start” to a minor league organization, it will take years for expansion clubs to develop a strong organization through drafts and free agent signings. That means help will not be on the way for years, and the team will have little depth at the highest levels. That should effectively prevent these teams from being winners for years, even after a successful draft.

It’s quite a challenge, even with decent players, because the deck is still stacked against you.

progen · 10-20-2023, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelican

I would disagree that expansion teams in my scenario benefit after their first year. I don’t necessarily see that happening. Sometimes they regress, particularly if they opted for older veteran players whose skills are declining.

What really matters going forward is how those expansion teams set up their organizations, minor league coaches, drafts, finding minor league free agents. Beyond the players taken in the expansion draft, and their first amateur draftees, expansion teams will have a void at the A and AA levels and lack depth at AAA. The only option is to fill these teams with players let go by the other major league organizations. These players will not be very good.

It would be more realistic for new teams to start out with lower minor league teams, a year or two or three before the first season for the MLB expansion club. That way, they could gradually add younger players and begin to develop them. It is laborious in OOTP, but I have at least managed to field one minor league team (technically unaffiliated) for each expansion team, one year early. It helps.

Absent this “early start” to a minor league organization, it will take years for expansion clubs to develop a strong organization through drafts and free agent signings. That means help will not be on the way for years, and the team will have little depth at the highest levels. That should effectively prevent these teams from being winners for years, even after a successful draft.

It’s quite a challenge, even with decent players, because the deck is still stacked against you.

Ok, I will try this on my next save, or if I expand again in my current save, take over one of those clubs, and see how things go. Always good to get a different perspective.

Pelican · 10-21-2023, 11:41 AM

I can’t find the thread, but several others guided me on the early setup of a minor league team, if you want to do that. I managed one “unaffiliated” minor league team, the year before actual expansion. Because the major league expansion franchise does not yet exist, there is no way to affiliate - yet. As soon as you start the expansion process, you can affiliate the minor league team, and create others. Mine was AA, and I stocked it with minor league free agents. The team wasn’t awful, and a few of the guys actually made it to the major league club. Others ended up at AAA.

To do this, you need to turn off the option that allows organizations to buy players from unaffiliated teams. Otherwise, MLB teams will snatch up the better players on the unaffiliated team you created. (This unfortunately prevents purchases from independent leagues, if you have them. But you can turn the purchase option back on, once you have started the expansion process.)

You should be able to let the new expansion teams participate in the Rule 5 Draft. This is pretty important, because they will need players, and the rule about having to keep the draftee on the MLB roster for a year should not pose a huge problem.

And OOTP gives you the option of letting expansion teams draft first in the amateur draft, which I support. They are starting with zero young players, so this is a way of allowing them to begin to catch up. Not only the first round, but on all the later rounds. Guys should want to sign with them. They are virtually guaranteed a chance to play and move up fast.

One of the cool choices in running an expansion franchise is deciding whether to sign some major league free agents, or to invest in development. It is also possible to “have your cake and eat it too”. I would draft for talent - not specific positions - in the expansion draft, and then look to fill gaps with trades or free agents. And I would plow money into minor league franchise staffing at all levels.

One of the hardest choices will be whether to draft a veteran on a big contract. Teams will expose these guys, the AI figuring that the expansion teams won’t want to inherit a huge contract, when they aren’t contending. In my 1969 draft for Seattle, I went for several experienced SP and RP, in order to allow my young guys time to develop. I had a couple of position holes, 3B and OF, that I filled with veteran free agents, no superstars, rather than play guys who were not ready and needed seasoning. YMMV.

Even with a low trading frequency setting, the expansion draft caused a fair number of AI trades, as the established teams dealt with the losses in the draft. This enables the expansion teams to correct for an oversupply of players, and even things out as far as depth.

Have fun. It is a great challenge. The cool part about being a perpetual underdog is that each win seems like an achievement. It’s hard for the game to duplicate it, but you have a bunch of guys who never played together before, and it should take time for them to mesh as a unit. So, patience is a virtue. Expansion teams should improve over the season, as they develop that cohesion.

10-04-2023, 01:29 PM	#1
sexycast Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2022 Posts: 13	Expansion draft I began my new season in 1992. Currently, I've reached 2026, and I've made the decision to introduce two expansion teams. My main query pertains to whether there will be an Expansion Draft for these two teams, as I couldn't find any information regarding the occurrence of such a draft. Thank you

10-05-2023, 10:47 AM	#4
progen All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,529 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	This is the only way anymore that I play the game. You'll have a blast taking over an expansion team. Nice challenge building a team from square one. Unlike some, I make the challenge harder by allowing teams to protect at least 25, sometimes 26-27. In the real world, MLB would do it differently, so the expansion teams don't lose 100 games or more the first year. But the fun of this game is you can create the rules any way you want. I also do 4 years of service instead of 3. I found that doing three years, allows too many really good young players to be exposed. And I usually do 30 rounds for the expansion draft. Right now, in my current save I have Montreal and Orlando. Have fun! Last edited by progen; 10-05-2023 at 10:48 AM.

10-13-2023, 04:22 PM	#5
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,789 Blog Entries: 1	I would allow teams to protect 12-15 players, with those with less than three (or four) years experience exempt. (MLB would never do this.) This will yield better expansion teams, with a decent chance at .500. It will also impact the deeper teams, who stand to lose the most good players. The AI sees this and makes some trades to compensate. And the AI makes the sensible choice of exposing older players and those with huge contracts. So it is not all rosy for the drafting expansion teams. I also make sure that the expansion teams have budgets similar to the established teams, so they can sign free agents. I let the expansion teams go first in the amateur draft. If established teams can protect 25 players, plus all their younger players in terms of service, the draft pool will be truly awful, no better than AAA, and none of the best prospects. Those expansion teams will lose 100+ games, no matter what. That is no fun and no challenge to me. YMMV. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.”

10-18-2023, 12:38 AM	#6
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,290	Assuming a consistent goal on how many games first year expansion teams should win, how many players to protect needs to be adjusted depending on league size. A standard number of players protected doesn't work for every situation. Existing teams in a large league should protect more players than existing teams in a small league. Also the number of expansion teams matters. If there are two expansion teams existing teams should protect more players than if there are four. Other things equal league with free agency should allow fewer protected players than one without it. Free agents cannot be drafted but don't have to be on a protection list meaning their former teams can protect other players who would not otherwise be protected. Anyway, the evaluation process should start with how good it is desired the expansion teams to be not what talent would be lost by existing teams. __________________ Pirates Play Moneyball 1951 to 2008 46,000 views and counting!... Wow, up to 47,000, thank you. Wow, I hadn't checked for weeks. Oct 9 2024 its 79,561. Why do people use different players, different lineups, different strategy, development, talent change randomness, and the development lab, but judge the game on whether it produces historical statistics?

10-18-2023, 10:30 PM	#8
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,290	If all you're considering is the number of players existing teams can protect getting the result you want is mostly chance. __________________ Pirates Play Moneyball 1951 to 2008 46,000 views and counting!... Wow, up to 47,000, thank you. Wow, I hadn't checked for weeks. Oct 9 2024 its 79,561. Why do people use different players, different lineups, different strategy, development, talent change randomness, and the development lab, but judge the game on whether it produces historical statistics?

10-04-2023, 10:15 PM	#2
snepp All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,459	If you use the in-game function to expand, then yes an expansion draft will get scheduled. I believe the function is actually title "Expand league and schedule expansion draft." If the function is used on the first day of the offseason the expansion draft should get scheduled for the day after free agency begins.

10-05-2023, 09:37 AM	#3
sexycast Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2022 Posts: 13	It works, thank you

10-19-2023, 10:55 PM	#9
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,789 Blog Entries: 1	I would disagree that expansion teams in my scenario benefit after their first year. I don’t necessarily see that happening. Sometimes they regress, particularly if they opted for older veteran players whose skills are declining. What really matters going forward is how those expansion teams set up their organizations, minor league coaches, drafts, finding minor league free agents. Beyond the players taken in the expansion draft, and their first amateur draftees, expansion teams will have a void at the A and AA levels and lack depth at AAA. The only option is to fill these teams with players let go by the other major league organizations. These players will not be very good. It would be more realistic for new teams to start out with lower minor league teams, a year or two or three before the first season for the MLB expansion club. That way, they could gradually add younger players and begin to develop them. It is laborious in OOTP, but I have at least managed to field one minor league team (technically unaffiliated) for each expansion team, one year early. It helps. Absent this “early start” to a minor league organization, it will take years for expansion clubs to develop a strong organization through drafts and free agent signings. That means help will not be on the way for years, and the team will have little depth at the highest levels. That should effectively prevent these teams from being winners for years, even after a successful draft. It’s quite a challenge, even with decent players, because the deck is still stacked against you. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.” Last edited by Pelican; 10-19-2023 at 10:59 PM.

10-21-2023, 11:41 AM	#11
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,789 Blog Entries: 1	I can’t find the thread, but several others guided me on the early setup of a minor league team, if you want to do that. I managed one “unaffiliated” minor league team, the year before actual expansion. Because the major league expansion franchise does not yet exist, there is no way to affiliate - yet. As soon as you start the expansion process, you can affiliate the minor league team, and create others. Mine was AA, and I stocked it with minor league free agents. The team wasn’t awful, and a few of the guys actually made it to the major league club. Others ended up at AAA. To do this, you need to turn off the option that allows organizations to buy players from unaffiliated teams. Otherwise, MLB teams will snatch up the better players on the unaffiliated team you created. (This unfortunately prevents purchases from independent leagues, if you have them. But you can turn the purchase option back on, once you have started the expansion process.) You should be able to let the new expansion teams participate in the Rule 5 Draft. This is pretty important, because they will need players, and the rule about having to keep the draftee on the MLB roster for a year should not pose a huge problem. And OOTP gives you the option of letting expansion teams draft first in the amateur draft, which I support. They are starting with zero young players, so this is a way of allowing them to begin to catch up. Not only the first round, but on all the later rounds. Guys should want to sign with them. They are virtually guaranteed a chance to play and move up fast. One of the cool choices in running an expansion franchise is deciding whether to sign some major league free agents, or to invest in development. It is also possible to “have your cake and eat it too”. I would draft for talent - not specific positions - in the expansion draft, and then look to fill gaps with trades or free agents. And I would plow money into minor league franchise staffing at all levels. One of the hardest choices will be whether to draft a veteran on a big contract. Teams will expose these guys, the AI figuring that the expansion teams won’t want to inherit a huge contract, when they aren’t contending. In my 1969 draft for Seattle, I went for several experienced SP and RP, in order to allow my young guys time to develop. I had a couple of position holes, 3B and OF, that I filled with veteran free agents, no superstars, rather than play guys who were not ready and needed seasoning. YMMV. Even with a low trading frequency setting, the expansion draft caused a fair number of AI trades, as the established teams dealt with the losses in the draft. This enables the expansion teams to correct for an oversupply of players, and even things out as far as depth. Have fun. It is a great challenge. The cool part about being a perpetual underdog is that each win seems like an achievement. It’s hard for the game to duplicate it, but you have a bunch of guys who never played together before, and it should take time for them to mesh as a unit. So, patience is a virtue. Expansion teams should improve over the season, as they develop that cohesion. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.” Last edited by Pelican; 10-21-2023 at 11:50 AM.