Fielding experience doesn't reset when fielding ratings are calculated via league settings

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Thanks for clarifying. I was pretty hot after reading that, as I read it, obviously, the opposite way. Sorry, for the hot tone thereafter.

lol I could tell! No harm done.


If I weirdly wanted to criticize someone personally online, I would be pretty straightforward about it. But if I wanted to criticize someone online for being anally retentive about baseball accuracy, I would instead check myself into a mental institution.

[snepp]

FWIW, I took it as a compliment.

[Garlon]

These fielding issues are caused by using minor leagues as players may have played other positions in the minor leagues that they never played in the major leagues.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Garlon

These fielding issues are caused by using minor leagues as players may have played other positions in the minor leagues that they never played in the major leagues.

I did a test and demonstrated that these problems occur in saves without minor leagues as well.


https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=356709

[Garlon]

Deron Johnson is not out of position in 1963. The problem here is that he did not historically play in the major leagues in 1963. He did play 3B in 1961 and 1962. The problem here is that the game is not handling gap years properly for players. I posted this as a bug when the game was released. Even Willie Mays has his CF ratings tank in 1953 when he missed a season. This bug needs to be corrected so that the game holds on to the fielding ratings of the previous season if there is a gap season in their record.

Rick Reichardt only played CF in 1964.

Deron Johnson started 153 games at 3B in 1965. He is not at the wrong position. If this is with career fielding, then this is the same issue as with Banks where the game has to choose between either 1B or 2B/3B/SS combined.

Smith in 1965 the game sees as eligible as an OF. I think OOTP uses a low standard of maybe 5% of career games at a position to be eligible. I have always recommended this be set to at least 10%.

Bill Freehan did start 129 games at 1B and did actually have 3 GS at 1B in 1966

Harmon Killebrew was a 3B in 1966.

Tommy Harper started 226 games at 3B in his career even though he mostly played outfield.

Ed Kranepool did play outfield in his career too


The player component ratings of range/error/arm/turn DP/Blocking/C Arm/OF Arm will change each year with 3yr fielding and will be based on their primary infield or primary outfield position.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Garlon

Deron Johnson is not out of position in 1963. The problem here is that he did not historically play in the major leagues in 1963. He did play 3B in 1961 and 1962. The problem here is that the game is not handling gap years properly for players. I posted this as a bug when the game was released. Even Willie Mays has his CF ratings tank in 1953 when he missed a season. This bug needs to be corrected so that the game holds on to the fielding ratings of the previous season if there is a gap season in their record.

Rick Reichardt only played CF in 1964.

Deron Johnson started 153 games at 3B in 1965. He is not at the wrong position. If this is with career fielding, then this is the same issue as with Banks where the game has to choose between either 1B or 2B/3B/SS combined.

Smith in 1965 the game sees as eligible as an OF. I think OOTP uses a low standard of maybe 5% of career games at a position to be eligible. I have always recommended this be set to at least 10%.

Bill Freehan did start 129 games at 1B and did actually have 3 GS at 1B in 1966

Harmon Killebrew was a 3B in 1966.

Tommy Harper started 226 games at 3B in his career even though he mostly played outfield.

Ed Kranepool did play outfield in his career too


The player component ratings of range/error/arm/turn DP/Blocking/C Arm/OF Arm will change each year with 3yr fielding and will be based on their primary infield or primary outfield position.

You are completely missing the point of that test. All of the players listed were unrated at the positions they were starting at. It doesn't matter if they started at the position years earlier or years later. For the season listed, they were NOT rated in OOTP to play the positions they were starting at.


That's the problem.

[Garlon]

For Killebrew, his ratings at 1B are just not good enough to play 3B. This type of thing can happen with those players who were 1B and another infield position. The game probably will try to use him at 1B but if it is occupied by another player it will try to find him another position.

He probably was a better option at 1B than whoever the team was using there, but that player probably had no other positions to play.

[uruguru]

Well it just so happens that I have the save so I don't have to guess.

For 1968 Minnesota Twins:

Don Mincher was their everyday 1B (151 GS). His infield ratings are 96-87-79-56. He had 200 experience at 1B, giving him a 165 position rating at 1B. He had 0 experience at 3B, giving him 0 out of a potential 49 at 3B.

Harmon Killebrew had 62 GS at 3B, and 86 GS in LF.. His infield ratings are 35-77-81-56. He has 200 fielding experience at 1B, 3B and LF. This gives him a position rating of 80 at 1B (passable), 8 at 3B (unplayable) and 1 at LF (also unplayable).

Mincher was 100% the better option at 3B because his fielding ratings were clearly higher than Killebrew's. Unfortunately, the AI prioritized fielding experience over ratings.

[Rain King]

It kind of feels like OOTP has a minimum offensive value it requires for certain defensive (historically bat-first) positions. The times I have seen these issues is because it seems to evaluate that the "real-life" obvious choice doesn't hit well enough to play the position.

That could potentially be an issue for Mincher in 1968. I've also seen this cause a problem for the Reds during the Todd Benzinger years.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Rain King

It kind of feels like OOTP has a minimum offensive value it requires for certain defensive (historically bat-first) positions. The times I have seen these issues is because it seems to evaluate that the "real-life" obvious choice doesn't hit well enough to play the position.

That could potentially be an issue for Mincher in 1968. I've also seen this cause a problem for the Reds during the Todd Benzinger years.

I personally think it's more of an over-reliance on fielding experience at a position, even when it's experience at a position with very poor ratings.

For example, in this case 1B & 3B need to be filled by Mincher and Killebrew.

Mincher has a 0 (out of 49 max) rating at 3B, and Killebrew has a 8 (max) rating at 3B. That means Killebrew plays 3B because the AI will not play a 0 at a position if it can help it even if that zero has better fielding ratings. (Mincher will match Killebrew's 8 rating after gaining just 31 experience at 3B)

Now get this. If I use the editor and zero out Killebrew's fielding exp at 3B, he now has a position rating of 0 at 3B, just like Mincher. Suddenly, the AI benches Mincher, puts Killebrew at 1B and moves SS Tom Tresh to 3B. Zoilo Versalles comes off the bench to play SS.

This suggests to me that if the recalc wasn't handing out fielding experience to low-rated positions, then a lot of this would go away. And the recalc does do this. I have tried sims where I zero out experience in these situations and it comes back at 200 after the next recalc.

I'm not saying this is easy to code. I expect that it's incredibly complex. But boy Killebrew started 86 games, more than half the season, at LF where he literally has no OF ratings.

I don't see how it can be reported as anything but a bug.