Is the AI overvaluing Catchers in trade negotiations again?

Habsfan18 · 03-21-2015, 03:50 PM

I remember this being an issue in last years version (at least in the earlier builds after release) and it appears to be happening again.

As posted in the roster thread, Boston just acquired Dioner Navarro and Gunnar Heidt (prospect) for Rusney Castillo. This is certainly not realistic.

Another poster mentioned that in their save, the Sox traded Sandoval for Andrew Susac and a prosect.

I understand AI trade logic can be a complicated matter, but it seems like the AI is again overvaluing catchers.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-21-2015, 03:58 PM

Nope... nothing was changed here. Also, the AI only knows ratings & stats, not names

Habsfan18 · 03-21-2015, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Nope... nothing was changed here. Also, the AI only knows ratings & stats, not names

But does the AI base it off positions and therefore is maybe overvaluing catchers in trade talks?

I just didn't know if this was an issue or if the AI was working as intended regarding trades.

Thanks Markus.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-21-2015, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

But does the AI base it off positions and therefore is maybe overvaluing catchers in trade talks?

I just didn't know if this was an issue or if the AI was working as intended regarding trades.

Thanks Markus.

It is working as intended.

X3NEIZE · 03-21-2015, 04:04 PM

Here's my screenie.... Not sure how this trade makes sense at all for a team that wants to win and has plenty of good arms in their farm system and better catchers:

Maybe there's something i'm missing (haven't checked the DB) as far as how good these prospects actually are as far as potential, but even then, this trade is not realistic.

Sandoval is Red Sox RBI leader in my save (only a few games played)

Markus Heinsohn · 03-21-2015, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X3NEIZE

Maybe there's something i'm missing (haven't checked the DB) as far as how good these prospects actually are as far as potential, but even then, this trade is not realistic.

Without knowing exactly how players are rated it makes no sense to judge such a trade. Also, more stupid trades have happened in real life

Lukas Berger · 03-21-2015, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X3NEIZE

Here's my screenie.... Not sure how this trade makes sense at all for a team that wants to win and has plenty of good arms in their farm system and better catchers:

Maybe there's something i'm missing (haven't checked the DB) as far as how good these prospects actually are as far as potential, but even then, this trade is not realistic.

Sandoval is Red Sox RBI leader in my save (only a few games played)

I'd say Boston has too many infielders (too many position players period) so the AI wants to deal some of them.

Sandoval's contract is not great and Susac is a strong MLB ready catching prospect who makes nothing while Slania is a solid potential bullpen piece. Seems like a perfectly decent trade to me, beyond Boston's trading someone they just signed, which is something the ai knows nothing about.

DB930 · 03-21-2015, 04:09 PM

I understand the whole "AI only recognizes ratings/stats, not names" thing (which is why I mostly play with fictional players), but just to add to the examples already mentioned, I saw the AI deal Sandoval to Houston for Jason Castro and Joe Musgrove.

Maybe the AI is overvaluing catchers... but since all 3 examples involve the Red Sox, maybe it just doesn't think very much of Vazquez and Hanigan...

X3NEIZE · 03-21-2015, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Without knowing exactly how players are rated it makes no sense to judge such a trade. Also, more stupid trades have happened in real life

Fair enough... At the end of the day as the Yankees GM, I'm liking the trade haha

X3NEIZE · 03-21-2015, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Without knowing exactly how players are rated it makes no sense to judge such a trade. Also, more stupid trades have happened in real life

That makes sense, the one thing that should probably be improved is flag the player as "highly untradable" for the season being that it was just signed to fill a role at the starting lineup

Lukas Berger · 03-21-2015, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

I
As posted in the roster thread, Boston just acquired Dioner Navarro and Gunnar Heidt (prospect) for Rusney Castillo. This is certainly not realistic.

Castillo is maybe a bit underrated by PECOTA (imo), compared to how he's seen irl.

Couple that with the 'too many position players in Boston' thing I mentioned above, the trade makes some sense.

Not sure why the ai would target Navarro, that's the only weird part.

Lukas Berger · 03-21-2015, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DB930

Maybe the AI is overvaluing catchers... but since all 3 examples involve the Red Sox, maybe it just doesn't think very much of Vazquez and Hanigan...

That's it essentially. The ai sees Boston's catchers as weak and IF and OF as very strong. So it's dealing IF and OF players for catchers.

MBarrett · 03-21-2015, 04:59 PM

You can never overvalue a Catcher.

Signed,
Bench, Molina, Fisk, Carter, Pudge

analgesic · 03-21-2015, 06:57 PM

What's Vasquez's current rating when starting the game? Because unless it's 2 stars, the trade makes no sense

pstrickert · 03-21-2015, 07:24 PM

Sandoval seems to be traded often (the few times I've looked at trading). Is it because of his big contract? Is the AI trying to dump his contract on someone else? I don't know.

Lukas Berger · 03-21-2015, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Sandoval seems to be traded often (the few times I've looked at trading). Is it because of his big contract? Is the AI trying to dump his contract on someone else? I don't know.

I think it's partly his contract and partly that Boston has too many decent position players.

hfield007 · 03-21-2015, 07:58 PM

I always felt the trade logic benefited fictional players better. I feel like most moves made in my fictionals are justified where as in a real MLB game I always think well they wouldn't actually trade player A for player B.

Doc_Brown · 03-21-2015, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfield007

I always felt the trade logic benefited fictional players better. I feel like most moves made in my fictionals are justified where as in a real MLB game I always think well they wouldn't actually trade player A for player B.

Well that's the thing with fictional leagues/players, you don't think Fred Jones would never be traded/traded for 2 B prospects.
Whereas with the MLB roster set, (some)people have their own views/ratings regarding players. I'm guessing some, rate the players on the team they support higher than those players on other teams. And F/E if they traded for Molina/Trout/Kershaw in exchange for a couple of B prospects they'd think cool, but if the AI traded the same deal, some would be like WTH happened there.

Habsfan18 · 03-21-2015, 09:27 PM

Here's another post from the roster thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonywvalentine

My assistant GM accepted, or initiated a trade... Im not sure which. But...

Gone is, my 27 y/o all-star lefty closer (10-7-7) and a top 20 y/o RF prospect (7-7-8-7-5) for a 27 y/o Catcher (6-6-6-3-5)

Lukas Berger · 03-21-2015, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

Here's another post from the roster thread:

Hard to tell anything about that, since defensive ratings aren't listed which matter a ton, especially for catchers.

03-21-2015, 03:50 PM	#1
Habsfan18 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 2,247	Is the AI overvaluing Catchers in trade negotiations again? I remember this being an issue in last years version (at least in the earlier builds after release) and it appears to be happening again. As posted in the roster thread, Boston just acquired Dioner Navarro and Gunnar Heidt (prospect) for Rusney Castillo. This is certainly not realistic. Another poster mentioned that in their save, the Sox traded Sandoval for Andrew Susac and a prosect. I understand AI trade logic can be a complicated matter, but it seems like the AI is again overvaluing catchers.

03-21-2015, 03:58 PM	#2
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	Nope... nothing was changed here. Also, the AI only knows ratings & stats, not names __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

03-21-2015, 04:04 PM	#5
X3NEIZE All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 649	Here's my screenie.... Not sure how this trade makes sense at all for a team that wants to win and has plenty of good arms in their farm system and better catchers: Maybe there's something i'm missing (haven't checked the DB) as far as how good these prospects actually are as far as potential, but even then, this trade is not realistic. Sandoval is Red Sox RBI leader in my save (only a few games played)

03-21-2015, 04:09 PM	#8
DB930 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 302	I understand the whole "AI only recognizes ratings/stats, not names" thing (which is why I mostly play with fictional players), but just to add to the examples already mentioned, I saw the AI deal Sandoval to Houston for Jason Castro and Joe Musgrove. Maybe the AI is overvaluing catchers... but since all 3 examples involve the Red Sox, maybe it just doesn't think very much of Vazquez and Hanigan...

03-21-2015, 04:59 PM	#13
MBarrett All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 627	You can never overvalue a Catcher. Signed, Bench, Molina, Fisk, Carter, Pudge

03-21-2015, 06:57 PM	#14
analgesic Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 208 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	What's Vasquez's current rating when starting the game? Because unless it's 2 stars, the trade makes no sense

03-21-2015, 07:24 PM	#15
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,429	Sandoval seems to be traded often (the few times I've looked at trading). Is it because of his big contract? Is the AI trying to dump his contract on someone else? I don't know.

03-21-2015, 07:58 PM	#17
hfield007 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,713	I always felt the trade logic benefited fictional players better. I feel like most moves made in my fictionals are justified where as in a real MLB game I always think well they wouldn't actually trade player A for player B.