Historical and fictional forums combined in 24

[Brad K]

In the OOTP 24 section the forums for historical and fictional sims are combined rather than being separate as they are in 23. I posted asking they be separated. If you agree please post your support.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=345203

[italyprof]

Originally Posted by Brad K

In the OOTP 24 section the forums for historical and fictional sims are combined rather than being separate as they are in 23. I posted asking they be separated. If you agree please post your support.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=345203

I did so Brad, thanks. I respect people wanting to play fictional leagues, and every once in a while I start one myself, but I have never played one. Just can't relate to the players. And I always use real photos of the players - the facegens give me the creeps. So a whole league of them? But in any case, the kinds of issues we talk about on our historical leagues forum are not the kinds that fictional leaguers do. Some may play both, but use different parts of their brains to do so, maybe of their souls as well.

So thanks. Let's hope reason prevails. And that we get historical ballparks, Negro League players that are as good as they were in RL and NeL and historical minor league players available as individuals in historical and random drafts.

I doubt we will and have not heard one word so far of interest to historical players. So for now I don't intend to buy 24 - the first time in 10 years I won't. Unless and untill I hear that something has been provided us historicals. Even though the International players here are the ones that really took a hit this time.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by italyprof

I did so Brad, thanks. I respect people wanting to play fictional leagues, and every once in a while I start one myself, but I have never played one. Just can't relate to the players. And I always use real photos of the players - the facegens give me the creeps. So a whole league of them? But in any case, the kinds of issues we talk about on our historical leagues forum are not the kinds that fictional leaguers do. Some may play both, but use different parts of their brains to do so, maybe of their souls as well.

So thanks. Let's hope reason prevails. And that we get historical ballparks, Negro League players that are as good as they were in RL and NeL and historical minor league players available as individuals in historical and random drafts.

I doubt we will and have not heard one word so far of interest to historical players. So for now I don't intend to buy 24 - the first time in 10 years I won't. Unless and untill I hear that something has been provided us historicals. Even though the International players here are the ones that really took a hit this time.

Thank you for your comments here and in the 24 thread.

I'm grateful that you and the majority have posted support a separate historical forum.

[luckymann]

Can't help but laugh at the fact that the second thread started in the new forum (ignoring yours questioning the revised structure) is a recap of a sim starting in 1871...

[Brad K]

Absent heavy topical moderation a forum becomes what the users make it. That is the complaint about this forum from those who want it to be all Q&A. But their complaint about Q&A threads being buried, that's what happens to every thread in General Discussion unless its getting twice a day posts.

[Brad K]

If something is on the first page it isn't buried. We have posts here from Dec still on the first page.

What is this about? Do people need training on the scroll feature? LOL.

[Charlie Hough]

In the end, I understand that people who post their career sim results are very passionate about it, and, for some reason, they really want that to happen in the historical and fictional sub-forums rather than in a separate, dedicated sub-forum. Others here want to keep the career sim posts in a shared sub-forum in order to boost the overall post count or activity.

But I've been thinking about sharing some of my own career sim results in a thread, and I would prefer to put that in a place dedicated to such things. It would not benefit me at all to have my career sim thread in a Q&A or shared sub-forum. I would not want to get in the way of users trying to use the search option for answers or trying to have Q&A discussions.

It's not just a matter of scrolling. It takes magnitudes of time longer to use the search function to find answers to specific questions in a particular sub-forum when some of the career sim report threads end up in the search results. The user has a much harder time finding answers, which then leads to new threads being created or people going to the general forum to add more clutter.

The general forum has degraded for years into a catch-all for questions about every area of the game, which creates a whole mess of threads about every conceivable topic. It creates obstacles and delays in people getting answers, and it results in many duplicate threads being created about the same topic, sometimes within hours on the same day. Granted, the volume of posts in other sub-forums is much smaller, so it's not as much of an issue. But the more you reduce sub-forums and eliminate separate categories, the more you're going to create conditions that start taking you down the road of the general forum.

[David Watts]

Maybe we just all agree to post down here in the 23 historical simulation forum. That way we don't clutter things up for the folks on a mission to save the world with their vast OOTP simulation knowledge. I've been playing baseball sims for 325 years now, but I've always been rather selfish in that I do so to enjoy myself. I never thought once about that poor child in Marion Spring Michigan that couldn't find the button to turn off storylines, because some guy named Brad was rambling on about Barry Bonds leaving the Pirates.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

In the end, I understand that people who post their career sim results are very passionate about it, and, for some reason, they really want that to happen in the historical and fictional sub-forums rather than in a separate, dedicated sub-forum. Others here want to keep the career sim posts in a shared sub-forum in order to boost the overall post count or activity.

But I've been thinking about sharing some of my own career sim results in a thread, and I would prefer to put that in a place dedicated to such things. It would not benefit me at all to have my career sim thread in a Q&A or shared sub-forum. I would not want to get in the way of users trying to use the search option for answers or trying to have Q&A discussions.

It's not just a matter of scrolling. It takes magnitudes of time longer to use the search function to find answers to specific questions in a particular sub-forum when some of the career sim report threads end up in the search results. The user has a much harder time finding answers, which then leads to new threads being created or people going to the general forum to add more clutter.

The general forum has degraded for years into a catch-all for questions about every area of the game, which creates a whole mess of threads about every conceivable topic. It creates obstacles and delays in people getting answers, and it results in many duplicate threads being created about the same topic, sometimes within hours on the same day. Granted, the volume of posts in other sub-forums is much smaller, so it's not as much of an issue. But the more you reduce sub-forums and eliminate separate categories, the more you're going to create conditions that start taking you down the road of the general forum.

Oh, so when you said, twice, in the other thread you were leaving, I was sure that meant you weren't going to discuss the subject any longer. How could I make such an error?

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Maybe we just all agree to post down here in the 23 historical simulation forum. That way we don't clutter things up for the folks on a mission to save the world with their vast OOTP simulation knowledge. I've been playing baseball sims for 325 years now, but I've always been rather selfish in that I do so to enjoy myself. I never thought once about that poor child in Marion Spring Michigan that couldn't find the button to turn off storylines, because some guy named Brad was rambling on about Barry Bonds leaving the Pirates.

Best laugh I've had over a board post in a long time. Thanks!

[Brad K]

" because some guy named Brad was rambling on about Barry Bonds leaving the Pirates."

Yea, and then there's me rambling about Frank Thomas in luckymann's thread.

Back in Indiana my preferred collector car was old Chryslers but if I get back in the hobby I'll probably have to choose Ramblers.

[luckymann]

I've thought more on this than I care to admit and, while I've no interest in moving them yet, I realise that there's a fairly straightforward decision for me to make that should help things to a certain degree while still maintaining the order I want.

When I do ask for my saves to be moved from 23 to 24, I'm going to put the Bucs, Eclipse League and Anatomy into the Historical thread because they are very much historical-based and this is where they belong. The AtHoL and ACBA - which are not strictly historical - will go to the Dynasty forum.

I feel this is a fair and effective compromise.

G

[Brad K]

Are you assuming "Fictional" will be removed from the name of the 24 forum?

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Are you assuming "Fictional" will be removed from the name of the 24 forum?

No, nor am I expecting them to make the logical change from "simulations" to "discussions". In fact, I think you'll find the mods have - perhaps rightfully, even if they did cause it in the first place by making the change - washed their hands of this dreary affair. But I do see the other side of the argument, and believe the volume of my saves is one of the main causes. So this is my compromise. The purely historical saves also encourage historical discussion, so I feel they belong there. The others are actually "dynasty" saves without that purely historical element, so they should go there.

That's how I intend to play it at this point, anyhow.

G

[Brad K]

People will post where they want. I didn't look at the dynasty forum, but unless the mods go there and say "hey fictional non dynasty players, post over there in the new historical/fictional forum" historical/fictional 24 will function mostly as historical 23 does. Except without your threads it will have a lot less action.

Because of your threads I was encouraged to report on my save, and said so in one of the early posts, perhaps the first one. I think I'm not the only one encouraged by your posts.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

People will post where they want. I didn't look at the dynasty forum, but unless the mods go there and say "hey fictional non dynasty players, post over there in the new historical/fictional forum" historical/fictional 24 will function mostly as historical 23 does. Except without your threads it will have a lot less action.

Because of your threads I was encouraged to report on my save, and said so in one of the early posts, perhaps the first one. I think I'm not the only one encouraged by your posts.

Thanks bud, I'm glad to have played a small part in the genesis of your fantastic thread. Like I said, the ones that interest you will be there, only the other two will go to the Dynasty board - unless the mods decide otherwise.