Catcher Playing Time

HoustonGM · 04-08-2015, 02:32 PM

I'm not sure where the best player would be to post this. When reviewing the results of my 2015 season, I noticed that a lot of catchers made 140+ appearances, 15 to be exact. This is wildly out of line with real life results. Usually only a handful, if that, of catchers play that often. I'm not sure if catchers are facing too few injuries, or if it's a fatigue issue, but I think something needs to be adjusted.

Are there any settings that I could personally adjust to help address this?

Peregrine · 04-08-2015, 02:47 PM

From what I've seen, one cause of this may be teams just don't have the catching depth and don't want to use a backup catcher as much as they do in real life. I notice my AI manager will put the backup catcher as "if starter tired" when he really should be playing much more often. Don't think it's injuries and just that the AI doesn't really handle that area super well.

SirMichaelJordan · 04-08-2015, 03:03 PM

Haven't noticed it this year but this was not a problem in years past.

Have you changed any fatigue or injury settings?

Yick · 04-08-2015, 03:10 PM

Is there an option for personal catchers? Example, David Ross catching Lester? Josh Thole catching Dickey (though to a lesser extent now with Martin in the fold).

HoustonGM · 04-08-2015, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

Haven't noticed it this year but this was not a problem in years past.

Have you changed any fatigue or injury settings?

I have not. Injuries are set to normal/OOTP Classic, and player fatigue is set to average.

RchW · 04-08-2015, 03:17 PM

I'm getting this in a fictional league which suggests a few things;

That catcher stamina at default settings is too good.
The AI threshold for tiredness is not sensitive enough. It should be different than other position players.
The gap between starting catchers and backups is too wide.
Backups are just not good enough. Different from above.
Teams are playing backup catchers at DH or another position. This is prevalent in the minors so I keep 3 catchers on the rosters.

HoustonGM · 04-08-2015, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I'm getting this in a fictional league which suggests a few things;

That catcher stamina at default settings is too good.
The AI threshold for tiredness is not sensitive enough. It should be different than other position players.
The gap between starting catchers and backups is too wide.
Backups are just not good enough. Different from above.
Teams are playing backup catchers at DH or another position. This is prevalent in the minors so I keep 3 catchers on the rosters.

The first two scenarios were my initial suspicions.

rpriske · 04-08-2015, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yick

Josh Thole catching Dickey (though to a lesser extent now with Martin in the fold).

A waaay lesser extent since Thole is in AAA.

Peregrine · 04-08-2015, 03:37 PM

I took a look at my current fictional league - the previous season I see 9 catchers who started 140 games or more. The season before that it was 11.

In 2014 MLB only four catchers did this, in 2013 three, and in 2012, four, so this does seem a bit off.

I also checked a long running fictional league for overall games played by catchers - this seemed to line up pretty well with the MLB career stats. This could be a small sample size or more likely there is some issue but through an entire career it evens out.

I checked this by comparing my OOTP fictional catchers with most games played to the top MLB catchers.

Ivan Rodriguez played 2543 games, 2427 as catcher. In that time he only played 140 games or more five times.

Carlton Fisk played in 2499 games, 2427 as a catcher. He played in 140 games or more three times.

My top catcher, Reynaldo Zamora, played in 2618 games, 2468 as a catcher. In that time he played 140 games or more seven times.

My second longest running catcher, Gabel Van Rossum played in 2236 games, 2107 as a catcher - but he started in 140 games or more ten times.

Hard to compare these apples to apples due to historical differences but when I looked at the top 10 or so in each it definitely seemed that the OOTP catchers are playing a lot more seasons where they play 140 or more games.

SirMichaelJordan · 04-08-2015, 03:43 PM

Maybe this year is the year to raise fatigue to high. I know in year's past, position players (fictional players) were sitting out way more than they did IRL even on average. IRL you'll see 50-60 players play 150+ games but in previous version on average fatigue you'll barely see 30 players play 150+ games.

HoustonGM · 04-08-2015, 03:44 PM

It's also worth noting that those real life figures you mentioned are inflated due to catchers being used at other positions/at DH. Only two catchers (Salvador Perez in 2014, Matt Wieters in 2013) actually caught more than 140 games in a season from 2012-2014.

In 2014, for example, Lucroy, Posey and McCann all played 140+ games overall, but spent 10+ games at 1B/DH.

sandman2575 · 04-08-2015, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

Maybe this year is the year to raise fatigue to high. I know in year's past, position players (fictional players) were sitting out way more than they did IRL even on average. IRL you'll see 50-60 players play 150+ games but in previous version on average fatigue you'll barely see 30 players play 150+ games.

I have fatigue set on High. I definitely cannot run a catcher out there for 7-8 consecutive games indefinitely, for the course of the whole season. Maybe subjective, but my sense is, catchers fatigue more quickly than other positions (don't have data to back that up, it's just my impression). Also, my sense is that fatigue accumulates throughout the season, so that to start a season, I might be able to have my starting catcher play in 7 straight games, but toward the end of the season, I wind up resting him more on the order of every 5 games.

That's not scientific, I know, but I always play with fatigue on High, because on normal, it too often felt like position players were hardly tiring at all -- play 12-14 straight and still show Rest = 100%. Even on High it may be a little too generous --

SirMichaelJordan · 04-08-2015, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman2575

I have fatigue set on High. I definitely cannot run a catcher out there for 7-8 consecutive games indefinitely, for the course of the whole season. Maybe subjective, but my sense is, catchers fatigue more quickly than other positions (don't have data to back that up, it's just my impression). Also, my sense is that fatigue accumulates throughout the season, so that to start a season, I might be able to have my starting catcher play in 7 straight games, but toward the end of the season, I wind up resting him more on the order of every 5 games.

That's not scientific, I know, but I always play with fatigue on High, because on normal, it too often felt like position players were hardly tiring at all -- play 12-14 straight and still show Rest = 100%. Even on High it may be a little too generous --

Yea catcher, SS and CF fatigue faster than other positions. 2B may have a similar rate as well.

Peregrine · 04-08-2015, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

It's also worth noting that those real life figures you mentioned are inflated due to catchers being used at other positions/at DH. Only two catchers (Salvador Perez in 2014, Matt Wieters in 2013) actually caught more than 140 games in a season from 2012-2014.

In 2014, for example, Lucroy, Posey and McCann all played 140+ games overall, but spent 10+ games at 1B/DH.

Good point! Looking at this chart was really revealing in terms of how rare this is. With the exception of Jason Kendall who was a freak of nature

140 defensive game starts is vanishingly rare.

Year-by-Year Top-Tens Leaders &amp Records for Def. Games as C | Baseball-Reference.com

SirMichaelJordan · 04-08-2015, 08:15 PM

Just looked at the past seasons in my save and players outside catcher still play in too few games (compared to RL) while catchers play in too many games (compared to RL) I think a option to tweak fatigue by position would be a good option.

Average setting.

Bobble · 04-09-2015, 10:15 AM

What are your injury settings? IRL some catchers may be missing games due to injuries which for default OOTP is not as often as IRL.

SirMichaelJordan · 04-09-2015, 12:54 PM

Even on high injury I am seeing the OP's problem.

Raising fatigue wont help much because now you'll have other position players not playing as much which they already lack with average fatigue.

ezpkns34 · 04-09-2015, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrine

From what I've seen, one cause of this may be teams just don't have the catching depth and don't want to use a backup catcher as much as they do in real life

Well I'm doing my part to help out the catching depth for the rest of the league in my game by having Yorvit Torrealba as my starting catcher

BadluckinOOTP · 04-10-2015, 01:50 AM

I do have some data, but it's a small sample, so this is mostly observation and could be wrong: But, I also think the game is generating too many good offensive catchers. I have catchers among the league leaders in every offensive category every year at a frequency that seems out of whack with the actual league.

04-08-2015, 02:32 PM	#1
HoustonGM Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 448	Catcher Playing Time I'm not sure where the best player would be to post this. When reviewing the results of my 2015 season, I noticed that a lot of catchers made 140+ appearances, 15 to be exact. This is wildly out of line with real life results. Usually only a handful, if that, of catchers play that often. I'm not sure if catchers are facing too few injuries, or if it's a fatigue issue, but I think something needs to be adjusted. Are there any settings that I could personally adjust to help address this?

04-08-2015, 03:03 PM	#3
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	Catcher Playing Time Haven't noticed it this year but this was not a problem in years past. Have you changed any fatigue or injury settings?

04-08-2015, 03:17 PM	#6
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	I'm getting this in a fictional league which suggests a few things; That catcher stamina at default settings is too good. The AI threshold for tiredness is not sensitive enough. It should be different than other position players. The gap between starting catchers and backups is too wide. Backups are just not good enough. Different from above. Teams are playing backup catchers at DH or another position. This is prevalent in the minors so I keep 3 catchers on the rosters. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

04-08-2015, 08:15 PM	#15
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	Catcher Playing Time Just looked at the past seasons in my save and players outside catcher still play in too few games (compared to RL) while catchers play in too many games (compared to RL) I think a option to tweak fatigue by position would be a good option. Average setting.

04-09-2015, 10:15 AM	#16
Bobble Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: High and outside Posts: 3,899	What are your injury settings? IRL some catchers may be missing games due to injuries which for default OOTP is not as often as IRL. __________________

04-08-2015, 02:47 PM	#2
Peregrine All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Cary, North Carolina Posts: 635	From what I've seen, one cause of this may be teams just don't have the catching depth and don't want to use a backup catcher as much as they do in real life. I notice my AI manager will put the backup catcher as "if starter tired" when he really should be playing much more often. Don't think it's injuries and just that the AI doesn't really handle that area super well.

04-08-2015, 03:10 PM	#4
Yick Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 103	Is there an option for personal catchers? Example, David Ross catching Lester? Josh Thole catching Dickey (though to a lesser extent now with Martin in the fold).

04-08-2015, 03:37 PM	#9
Peregrine All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Cary, North Carolina Posts: 635	I took a look at my current fictional league - the previous season I see 9 catchers who started 140 games or more. The season before that it was 11. In 2014 MLB only four catchers did this, in 2013 three, and in 2012, four, so this does seem a bit off. I also checked a long running fictional league for overall games played by catchers - this seemed to line up pretty well with the MLB career stats. This could be a small sample size or more likely there is some issue but through an entire career it evens out. I checked this by comparing my OOTP fictional catchers with most games played to the top MLB catchers. Ivan Rodriguez played 2543 games, 2427 as catcher. In that time he only played 140 games or more five times. Carlton Fisk played in 2499 games, 2427 as a catcher. He played in 140 games or more three times. My top catcher, Reynaldo Zamora, played in 2618 games, 2468 as a catcher. In that time he played 140 games or more seven times. My second longest running catcher, Gabel Van Rossum played in 2236 games, 2107 as a catcher - but he started in 140 games or more ten times. Hard to compare these apples to apples due to historical differences but when I looked at the top 10 or so in each it definitely seemed that the OOTP catchers are playing a lot more seasons where they play 140 or more games.

04-08-2015, 03:43 PM	#10
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	Maybe this year is the year to raise fatigue to high. I know in year's past, position players (fictional players) were sitting out way more than they did IRL even on average. IRL you'll see 50-60 players play 150+ games but in previous version on average fatigue you'll barely see 30 players play 150+ games.

04-08-2015, 03:44 PM	#11
HoustonGM Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 448	It's also worth noting that those real life figures you mentioned are inflated due to catchers being used at other positions/at DH. Only two catchers (Salvador Perez in 2014, Matt Wieters in 2013) actually caught more than 140 games in a season from 2012-2014. In 2014, for example, Lucroy, Posey and McCann all played 140+ games overall, but spent 10+ games at 1B/DH.

04-09-2015, 12:54 PM	#17
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	Even on high injury I am seeing the OP's problem. Raising fatigue wont help much because now you'll have other position players not playing as much which they already lack with average fatigue.

04-10-2015, 01:50 AM	#19
BadluckinOOTP All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: OKC Posts: 1,534	I do have some data, but it's a small sample, so this is mostly observation and could be wrong: But, I also think the game is generating too many good offensive catchers. I have catchers among the league leaders in every offensive category every year at a frequency that seems out of whack with the actual league. __________________