stealing bases -- how does it work?

mak_nas · 07-31-2015, 11:31 AM

i feel i must be missing something. i've got about 400 hours into OOTP16, i typically manage games one-pitch, and i cannot steal a base for the life of me.

i have a team that has 4 players with 80 (on the 20-80 scale) stealing ratings. all of them have stolen 30 bases in the regular season, almost all of which i sim in the background these days. but when it comes to the playoffs i manage each game.

i've been trying to run on a team whose catcher is a 50 arm and pitchers with hold ratings in the 35-50 region.

i am zero for my last nine attempts.

it goes deeper than this, though. i have experienced a frustrating inability to steal bases with any consistency for season after season. players that clearly succeed 80% of the time or better when under AI can't take a bag better than a third of the time with me at the controls.

so what am i doing wrong?

Westheim · 07-31-2015, 11:49 AM

Sounds like OOTP 16 hates you. It's okay, though. You can join the group. We meet on Tuesdays.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 07-31-2015, 12:05 PM

I'm not sure that anything you are doing is "wrong," but I'll tell you what I do when I'm managing out games, which I just started to do with OOTP 16 while experimenting with the manager-only mode.

When I'm in a running situation I always switch to pitch-to-pitch
I almost never run first pitch.
I almost always wait until the count is 2-0 or 2-1, to remove the chance of a pitch-out.
I always select "run and hit" instead of "steal." The onus is still on the runner to get a good jump, but he will run rather than the numerous false-starts you get with the "steal" button.

This has worked out well for me so far.

Number4 · 07-31-2015, 12:42 PM

Run and hit lowers your chances though, as the runner will be forced to steal even on a bad jump.
I think only arm matters, not hold runners - that only matters if a pitcher can get the runner to abort a steal. I've read about that bug somewhere here.

For me is: Steal base if the count is in my favor (1-0, 2-0, 2-1), run and hit if I want to steal now, f.ex bad count and valuable run at first, so I accept the extra caught stealing chance. I only steal by run and hit if the runner is very fast.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 07-31-2015, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number4

Run and hit lowers your chances though, as the runner will be forced to steal even on a bad jump.

Maybe. But the alternative with the "steal" button means the batter is forced to take the pitch, which always seemed unrealistic to me. I think the command that the batter must take if the runner has been given the green light is pretty rare in real life.

What OOTP really needs is some kind of red light/green light toggle such that the runner can take off on his own independent of what's going on at the plate if you leave the option open to him, but still gives you the option to specifically command run and hit, hit and run, etc.

Number4 · 07-31-2015, 12:55 PM

Yes, I concur. A "Steal at will" button should combine swing away for the batter and steal base for the runner.

Airdrop01 · 07-31-2015, 01:20 PM

I use run and hit almost exclusively.

RchW · 07-31-2015, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number4

Yes, I concur. A "Steal at will" button should combine swing away for the batter and steal base for the runner.

There is a force steal feature. If you look closely at RL games, run and hit makes up a large percentage of current steal attempts. By definition the batter has a choice to swing or not.

Westheim · 07-31-2015, 01:39 PM

If I call a run-and-hit, I want a run-and-hit. The batter is supposed to hack. If anything, the catcher has to get his noggin' out of the backswing, and loses a split second.

I have always had terrible stolen base success in OOTP. Can't get more than 80% out of anybody (and often far, far less!).

I have an outfielder, who's a 12/17 in speed/steal (1-20 scale). You think you could run him a little especially on the two weak-armed primary catchers that are in our division. No. Just no. His career success rate is under 50%.

That is with mixing straight steals, hit-and-run, and run-and-hit, depending on the quality of the batter.

Right now, I have a 27-year old rookie rule 5 pick for a starting shortstop, who's getting on base at a .248 clip (and I wonder why we're the worst team in the league!), but he can do two things. Little Yoshi can field, and run like the demons are after him. By now, I just spam "4" as soon as he accidentally appears on base. He's a 20/18 runner. You think he should steal bases at more than an 80% clip.

But he's 36/47 on the year.

There's just no point...

NYJin2011tm · 07-31-2015, 01:59 PM

I use send forced. Seems to work best for me. I almost never try to steal 3rd, only on 3-2 count(I use pitch by pitch) with fast runners.

Giants44 · 07-31-2015, 02:29 PM

In my real life coaching we have a few signs that I would love to see incorporated into the game

Steal - Take - Runner steals no matter what, batter takes no matter what. there does not appear to be an OOTP equivalent of this sign.

Steal - Hit Away - Runner steals no matter what, batter hits if he get a pitch to hit for the count he is in.OOTP this is largely the run and hit

Hit and Run - Runner goes, batter makes every effort on anything close to put the ball in play - OOTP - hit and run

Green - Red -Runner green light to go if he sees the opportunity, batter takes - this seems to be the OOTP option for steal

Green - Green - Runner green light batter, green light - similar to run and hit excpet for the runner only goes if he gets a good read on the pitcher

Red - Green - Runner better not go (down 2, 1 on, 9th inning) Batter hits away - more or less the OOTP option of swing away

Red - Red - dont run, dont swing. Pitcher is all over the place and we want to force him to throw a strike - more or less the OOTP option to take.

although this seems like a lot of options it is quite simple and comes down to 3 signs for the runner and 3 for the batter.

GO
Green
Red

HIT
Green
Red (take)

Giants44 · 07-31-2015, 02:34 PM

DOH - that is right I forgot all about FORCE STEAL - that is the option for my first choice of steal-take so really all 6 real life scenarios are in there.

I believe in the past when I was playing things like 80s replays with a lot of steals I would edit the success rate up in the settings and then use force steal - seemed to work out pretty well

battists · 07-31-2015, 04:04 PM

I've had a pretty good mix of success. My rookie ball team had extremely little batting talent, but lots of speed, so I ended up with the top 3 SB people in the league, and I played out all of my games with 1-pitch mode.

I used mostly "steal" for the first half of the season, because I didn't understand "run & hit," but now I go about 50-50.

rpriske · 07-31-2015, 04:36 PM

Well, I have a different opinion then other people here.

NEVER use Steal Forced. Your safe percentage will plummet.

DON'T use Run and Hit unless there is a full count.

Use the regular Steal command base on the count. Don't steal on 0-1, 0-2, 1-2, 2-2

The end result is that I don't get high stolen base totals, but I get high Steal % totals. Which is way more important.

Oh, and when your OPPONENT gets a high stolen base guy on, always pitch out the first pitch. Always worth it.

battists · 07-31-2015, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

Use the regular Steal command base on the count. Don't steal on 0-1, 0-2, 1-2, 2-2

Just curious, what's your logic for those particular counts?

RchW · 07-31-2015, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

If I call a run-and-hit, I want a run-and-hit. The batter is supposed to hack. If anything, the catcher has to get his noggin' out of the backswing, and loses a split second.

Wrong call. By definition run and hit does not require the batter to swing whereas hit and run does. The runner on the former proceeds as if it is a straight steal while on the latter he looks to see what happens at the plate.

NYJin2011tm · 07-31-2015, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

Well, I have a different opinion then other people here.

NEVER use Steal Forced. Your safe percentage will plummet.

DON'T use Run and Hit unless there is a full count.

Use the regular Steal command base on the count. Don't steal on 0-1, 0-2, 1-2, 2-2

The end result is that I don't get high stolen base totals, but I get high Steal % totals. Which is way more important.

Oh, and when your OPPONENT gets a high stolen base guy on, always pitch out the first pitch. Always worth it.

Just checked my team steal%...you may have a point...65%.

faithful2thecall · 07-31-2015, 05:18 PM

I don't have any problems with stealing bases--other than maybe getting thrown out more than I think I should.

I've also seen the AI make some head scratching decisions when it comes to sending runners. For example, in the game I'm currently playing the AI for my opponent stole 2nd base down 13-0 in the 6th inning. You're a bit too far out of the game to be trying to get something going, buddy.

Giants44 · 07-31-2015, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Just curious, what's your logic for those particular counts?

I am assuming because steal implies taking the pitch and obviously you don't want to take in 2 strike counts.

RISP! · 08-01-2015, 10:38 PM

A lot of advice has already been given above, but let me talk about my take.

When you press 4, it will make sure that the runner gets a good jump before stealing, and if he doesn't then the steal attempt will not happen. So this is probably the best success rate. However you may be frustrated sometimes when the runner keeps not going for the steal, and yet your batter falls behind in the count.

You can press 8 to force the runner to steal or press 9 for run and hit, and these will ensure that the runner goes regardless of the situation. I do this more often, depending on the count. 1-0, 2-1 counts are usually good to run on.

Lastly, you need to trust your own gut on when to steal. For me, I don't always have rules in mind. I sometimes attempt to steal on the first pitch. There is no right or wrong.

Lastly, I like to look at the pitch locations and guess at what might be coming up. Obviously, if you steal on a curveball or changeup, your success increases dramatically!

07-31-2015, 11:31 AM	#1
mak_nas Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1	stealing bases -- how does it work? i feel i must be missing something. i've got about 400 hours into OOTP16, i typically manage games one-pitch, and i cannot steal a base for the life of me. i have a team that has 4 players with 80 (on the 20-80 scale) stealing ratings. all of them have stolen 30 bases in the regular season, almost all of which i sim in the background these days. but when it comes to the playoffs i manage each game. i've been trying to run on a team whose catcher is a 50 arm and pitchers with hold ratings in the 35-50 region. i am zero for my last nine attempts. it goes deeper than this, though. i have experienced a frustrating inability to steal bases with any consistency for season after season. players that clearly succeed 80% of the time or better when under AI can't take a bag better than a third of the time with me at the controls. so what am i doing wrong?

07-31-2015, 11:49 AM	#2
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 13,738	Sounds like OOTP 16 hates you. It's okay, though. You can join the group. We meet on Tuesdays. __________________ Portland Raccoons, 92 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

07-31-2015, 12:05 PM	#3
Cinnamon J. Scudworth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,119	I'm not sure that anything you are doing is "wrong," but I'll tell you what I do when I'm managing out games, which I just started to do with OOTP 16 while experimenting with the manager-only mode. When I'm in a running situation I always switch to pitch-to-pitch I almost never run first pitch. I almost always wait until the count is 2-0 or 2-1, to remove the chance of a pitch-out. I always select "run and hit" instead of "steal." The onus is still on the runner to get a good jump, but he will run rather than the numerous false-starts you get with the "steal" button. This has worked out well for me so far. __________________ "Sometimes, this is like going to a grocery store. You’ve got a list until you get to the check-out stand. And then you start reading People magazine, and all this other [stuff] ends up in the basket." -Sandy Alderson on the MLB offseason Last edited by Cinnamon J. Scudworth; 07-31-2015 at 12:06 PM.

07-31-2015, 12:42 PM	#4
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	Run and hit lowers your chances though, as the runner will be forced to steal even on a bad jump. I think only arm matters, not hold runners - that only matters if a pitcher can get the runner to abort a steal. I've read about that bug somewhere here. For me is: Steal base if the count is in my favor (1-0, 2-0, 2-1), run and hit if I want to steal now, f.ex bad count and valuable run at first, so I accept the extra caught stealing chance. I only steal by run and hit if the runner is very fast. Last edited by Number4; 08-01-2015 at 11:09 AM.

07-31-2015, 01:39 PM	#9
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 13,738	If I call a run-and-hit, I want a run-and-hit. The batter is supposed to hack. If anything, the catcher has to get his noggin' out of the backswing, and loses a split second. I have always had terrible stolen base success in OOTP. Can't get more than 80% out of anybody (and often far, far less!). I have an outfielder, who's a 12/17 in speed/steal (1-20 scale). You think you could run him a little especially on the two weak-armed primary catchers that are in our division. No. Just no. His career success rate is under 50%. That is with mixing straight steals, hit-and-run, and run-and-hit, depending on the quality of the batter. Right now, I have a 27-year old rookie rule 5 pick for a starting shortstop, who's getting on base at a .248 clip (and I wonder why we're the worst team in the league!), but he can do two things. Little Yoshi can field, and run like the demons are after him. By now, I just spam "4" as soon as he accidentally appears on base. He's a 20/18 runner. You think he should steal bases at more than an 80% clip. But he's 36/47 on the year. There's just no point... __________________ Portland Raccoons, 92 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

07-31-2015, 12:55 PM	#6
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	Yes, I concur. A "Steal at will" button should combine swing away for the batter and steal base for the runner.

07-31-2015, 01:20 PM	#7
Airdrop01 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lenexa, KS / Wilson, WY Posts: 1,354	I use run and hit almost exclusively.

07-31-2015, 01:59 PM	#10
NYJin2011tm Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 18	I use send forced. Seems to work best for me. I almost never try to steal 3rd, only on 3-2 count(I use pitch by pitch) with fast runners.

07-31-2015, 02:29 PM	#11
Giants44 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 2,408	In my real life coaching we have a few signs that I would love to see incorporated into the game Steal - Take - Runner steals no matter what, batter takes no matter what. there does not appear to be an OOTP equivalent of this sign. Steal - Hit Away - Runner steals no matter what, batter hits if he get a pitch to hit for the count he is in.OOTP this is largely the run and hit Hit and Run - Runner goes, batter makes every effort on anything close to put the ball in play - OOTP - hit and run Green - Red -Runner green light to go if he sees the opportunity, batter takes - this seems to be the OOTP option for steal Green - Green - Runner green light batter, green light - similar to run and hit excpet for the runner only goes if he gets a good read on the pitcher Red - Green - Runner better not go (down 2, 1 on, 9th inning) Batter hits away - more or less the OOTP option of swing away Red - Red - dont run, dont swing. Pitcher is all over the place and we want to force him to throw a strike - more or less the OOTP option to take. although this seems like a lot of options it is quite simple and comes down to 3 signs for the runner and 3 for the batter. GO Green Red HIT Green Red (take) __________________ "In a text sim - Immersion is everything" -Me "Judge a man not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" -Martin Luther King "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." -Einstein "The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." -Muhammad Ali "Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything." -Toby Harrah

07-31-2015, 02:34 PM	#12
Giants44 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 2,408	DOH - that is right I forgot all about FORCE STEAL - that is the option for my first choice of steal-take so really all 6 real life scenarios are in there. I believe in the past when I was playing things like 80s replays with a lot of steals I would edit the success rate up in the settings and then use force steal - seemed to work out pretty well __________________ "In a text sim - Immersion is everything" -Me "Judge a man not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" -Martin Luther King "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." -Einstein "The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." -Muhammad Ali "Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything." -Toby Harrah

07-31-2015, 04:04 PM	#13
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	I've had a pretty good mix of success. My rookie ball team had extremely little batting talent, but lots of speed, so I ended up with the top 3 SB people in the league, and I played out all of my games with 1-pitch mode. I used mostly "steal" for the first half of the season, because I didn't understand "run & hit," but now I go about 50-50.

07-31-2015, 04:36 PM	#14
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 26,393	Well, I have a different opinion then other people here. NEVER use Steal Forced. Your safe percentage will plummet. DON'T use Run and Hit unless there is a full count. Use the regular Steal command base on the count. Don't steal on 0-1, 0-2, 1-2, 2-2 The end result is that I don't get high stolen base totals, but I get high Steal % totals. Which is way more important. Oh, and when your OPPONENT gets a high stolen base guy on, always pitch out the first pitch. Always worth it. __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

07-31-2015, 05:18 PM	#18
faithful2thecall Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minnesota Posts: 151	I don't have any problems with stealing bases--other than maybe getting thrown out more than I think I should. I've also seen the AI make some head scratching decisions when it comes to sending runners. For example, in the game I'm currently playing the AI for my opponent stole 2nd base down 13-0 in the 6th inning. You're a bit too far out of the game to be trying to get something going, buddy.

08-01-2015, 10:38 PM	#20
RISP! Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 17	A lot of advice has already been given above, but let me talk about my take. When you press 4, it will make sure that the runner gets a good jump before stealing, and if he doesn't then the steal attempt will not happen. So this is probably the best success rate. However you may be frustrated sometimes when the runner keeps not going for the steal, and yet your batter falls behind in the count. You can press 8 to force the runner to steal or press 9 for run and hit, and these will ensure that the runner goes regardless of the situation. I do this more often, depending on the count. 1-0, 2-1 counts are usually good to run on. Lastly, you need to trust your own gut on when to steal. For me, I don't always have rules in mind. I sometimes attempt to steal on the first pitch. There is no right or wrong. Lastly, I like to look at the pitch locations and guess at what might be coming up. Obviously, if you steal on a curveball or changeup, your success increases dramatically!