Thread for player identification in team photos

[cinemaodyssey]

Here's another option for Andrus, pictured with the 1885 Hamilton team.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by tnfoto

I have a much higher-quality version of this image, which includes the above IDs in its meta data. The unknown player is listed as "[unidentified] Cain, of".

I asked around about the photo, and I got the copy of the photo below, identifying the photographer as Billings in Saginaw. Minneapolis played three games in Saginaw at the end of May, 1884. The players who played with the club in Saginaw on May 29 and May 30 (two games) were Murray, Reid, Fisher, Caruthers, Nichols, Isaacson, Parker, Creegan, Casey and Yott. All of these players but Creegan are reportedly in the photo.

On June 1, the club played in Terre Haute. The St. Paul Globe noted that Tuthill played three new men - Cady, Donnelly and Murphy. Donnelly played his first game with the club on May 3, so he wasn't new, but maybe he hadn't played for the club in a while. If these three joined the club in Terre Haute, they wouldn't have been in Saginaw.

The Saginaw Express reported on June 3 that Walker signed with Minneapolis. Could he already have been with the club in Saginaw, and thus be able to be in the photo with Creegan?

Below is also a comparison of Creegan and the unidentified player. Looks like he could be a match.

[cinemaodyssey]

Nice research! I think that is a definite possibility for Creegan.

[prewinter]

Comparing the sketch printed in the newspaper in July 1900 with the photo from the book "The Western League: A Baseball History", one player in each is shown in a uniform without "Denver" across the front. In the sketch, this player is identified as Silch, while in the photo this player is identified as O'Neil. I'm beginning to think one of these two is wrong. The comparisons are below between the photo and sketch, with the identifications as given for the photo. The sketch of O'Neil looks to me more like the player in the photo identified as Silch, while I can see the sketch identified as Silch matching the player in the photo identified as O'Neil.

The more I look at the photo, the more I think it was taken contemporaneously with the photo the sketch in the paper was based on. This would make the unidentified players as Hunter, McHarg and McMillon, and also that Dugdale would not be in the photo.

A comparison of the player identified as Tom Hogan in the photo caption in the book is shown below with McMillon and McHarg. And as noted, I think Hunter resembles one of the other unidentified players.

[prewinter]

In 1895, Fort Worth had a club in the Texas-Southern League. This photo is included in a post about the history of the Fort Worth Cats by the Fort Worth Historical Society (https://www.fwhistorical.com/fortworthhistorycats). I take no credit for the colorized version presented here. It is not clear when during the season the photo was taken.

Baseball-Reference includes 31 players on the club roster, some of whom were with the club for only a handful of games. I think the photo was likely taken right before the season started, based on the number of players in the photo and the ebb and flow of players during the season.

There are five players who were with the club all season:
Charles Elsey, Josh Reilly, Louis (Sport) McAllister, Matt Stanley and Monte McFarland.
Thomas Flannagan was also with the club for most of the season before he broke his hand in August.

At the start of the season, the rest of the roster was
Henry Flanagan (brother of Thomas), B.H. (Pop) Matthews, William (Kid) Nance, Harry Mace, Thomas Hoffman and Jack Mackey*. That is twelve players.

Mackey and Elsey started the season hurt, so C.C. Lucas played in the first seven games until Elsey was back. Lonnie Sherbocker played in his first game with the club on April 29, about a week after the season started, and Mackey returned on April 30. Nance and Mace were released at the end of April. Sherbocker's last game was May 9. As best I can tell from the box scores, the next new player (Johnny Fernandez) turned up on May 13.

The manager of the club at the start of the season was Tom P. Richards. He sold the club to William H. Ward, later an Alderman in Fort Worth, in early June. Josh Reilly was the captain at the start of the season (as best I can tell).

*Baseball-Reference identifies Mackey as Edwin Alcott Mackey. There were a lot of Mackeys in the league that year, including an Ed Mackey as a player and an umpire. The newspapers from the early part of the season make it clear the player with Fort Worth was Jack H. Mackey, from Brooklyn. He later also umpired some games. This was most likely John H. Mackey (mackey002joh and also mackey001jac). A brief bio was in the Green Bay Weekly Gazette on May 27, 1891, giving his career to that point. It gave his as age 25, and he was 160 lbs, and 5 feet 7 1/2 inches.

Photos of players to follow (at least the ones I have).

[prewinter]

Photos of Elsey, Mace, Reilly, McAllister.

[prewinter]

Photos of McFarland, Nance and Stanley.

I don't have photos for either Flanagan, Matthews, Hoffman or Mackey.

[cinemaodyssey]

I'm reasonably happy with Reilly being the player in the back row, far right. Also, I realize you're placing an early timeframe for this photo but if that's not Harry Steinfeldt in the back row, second from the left then he had a doppelganger.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

I'm reasonably happy with Reilly being the player in the back row, far right. Also, I realize you're placing an early timeframe for this photo but if that's not Harry Steinfeldt in the back row, second from the left then he had a doppelganger.

Harry Steinfeldt played his first game with Fort Worth on August 21, and the season ended on September 3. Players who appeared in games during that span included Reilly, McAllister, Stanley, McFarland, Elsey, Duke Jantzen, Mike Lawrence, Frank Weikart, William McCormick, Joseph Broderick and Brownie Chamberlain. With Steinfeldt, that would be 12 players, although Chamberlain only played in the final two games of the season.

The photo could also have been taken later in September, during a 15 game post-season series between Fort Worth and Dallas. Fourteen players total played for Fort Worth during the series, including Joseph Bammert and Charles Meyers from the Galveston club and Fred Brott and catcher William 'Klondike' Douglas from Sherman. Elsey and Reilly stopped playing about two thirds of the way through the series, and Kid Nance joined the club after a few games.

One of the key questions is who is the person in the black shirt. Identifying this person (either the team captain or the manager, one assumes) could set the time frame for the photo.

Following up on this line of thinking, below is a photo of Klondike Douglas (from Baseball Reference). I don't see anyone that looks like him in the photo, which would suggest the photo wasn't taken during the post-season series between Fort Worth and Dallas.

[cinemaodyssey]

Sport McAllister is in the front row on the left. I like Matt Stanley in the second row, far left and Elsey in the second row, far right. I'm tentatively placing McFarland in the second row, middle.

[cinemaodyssey]

I was able to locate a photo (probably the only one according to the article) of the 1883 Terre Haute team. It was in the possession of player Ed Halbriter who had moved to Los Angeles. The Terre Haute Saturday Spectator of 10/16/1915 printed it and my hope is it may provide some clues as to the identities of a few of the 1884 players. Sadly the image is not as pristine as I'd want but beggars can't be choosers.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

I was able to locate a photo (probably the only one according to the article) of the 1883 Terre Haute team. It was in the possession of player Ed Halbriter who had moved to Los Angeles. The Terre Haute Saturday Spectator of 10/16/1915 printed it and my hope is it may provide some clues as to the identities of a few of the 1884 players. Sadly the image is not as pristine as I'd want but beggars can't be choosers.

Awesome! Right off the bat I can see Charlie Krehmeyer in the 1883 photo identified as "Creamyer". Looking at Packard, could he be the person in the back row, far right of the 1884 photo? I'm going to need to look at the correlation between the 1883 and 1884 clubs to see where the overlap was.

One thing that does jump out as interesting is that Al Buckenberger in the 1883 photo is clean shaven, while in the 1884 photo he has the mustache.

I have not found a McCannion in the 1883 Terre Haute papers, but I did find an Ed McKennan.

[prewinter]

Here are photos of a few players from the 1895 season who were around for a while later in the season. The presence of any of them in the photo would help date the photo.

Russ Steinhoff joined the club in late May and was with the club through mid-August.
Mike Lawrence came on board at the start of July and remained with the club through the end of the season.
Fred Woodcock joined the club around the same time as Steinhoff, and he departed in mid July.

[cinemaodyssey]

Lawrence could certainly be the player in the black uniform. I don't see Steinhoff or Woodcock.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

Lawrence could certainly be the player in the black uniform. I don't see Steinhoff or Woodcock.

I was wondering if Lawrence might be the player in black. I've yet to determine who the captains were as the season progressed. My assumption is that that person is the captain, not the owner or manager.

[cinemaodyssey]

The sartorial choices of the player in black seem to match Lawrence perfectly. Perhaps he was always cold?

[cinemaodyssey]

I'm trying to tackle another team photo that has been floating around the internet seemingly forever. Obviously it features an early 1890s Troy team but who the players are is another question. I feel comfortable in thinking it represents the 1893 team and here is my tentative attempt to name the players (assuming the photo was taken early in the season):

Top Row (Standing), L-R: Ted Scheffler, Jim Devlin, Edwin Breckenridge, Jim Donnelly, Henry Gruber
Middle Row (Seated), L-R: William Johnson?, Hon Fricken, Tom Cahill, John Pickett, Hank Simon, Marr Phillips
Bottom Row, L-R: Danny Murphy, Harry Morelock

All of these players were with the team in April and would likely be present for the team photo. The only regular I do not have a photo of is William Johnson.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

I'm trying to tackle another team photo that has been floating around the internet seemingly forever. Obviously it features an early 1890s Troy team but who the players are is another question. I feel comfortable in thinking it represents the 1893 team and here is my tentative attempt to name the players (assuming the photo was taken early in the season):

Top Row (Standing), L-R: Ted Scheffler, Jim Devlin, Edwin Breckenridge, Jim Donnelly, Henry Gruber
Middle Row (Seated), L-R: William Johnson?, Hon Fricken, Tom Cahill, John Pickett, Hank Simon, Marr Phillips
Bottom Row, L-R: Danny Murphy, Harry Morelock

All of these players were with the team in April and would likely be present for the team photo. The only regular I do not have a photo of is William Johnson.

My immediate question: Was Jim Devlin as tall as that player looks? According to Baseball-Reference, he was 5-7 and 135 lbs. That just doesn't seem large enough for the guy standing in the back row.

The photographer is Zeph Magill. He shows up in the Troy Street Directory from 1890 to 1893 identified as a photographer. By 1894 he is no longer listed under Photographer in the business guide, but he is listed up through 1897.

[cinemaodyssey]

Originally Posted by prewinter

My immediate question: Was Jim Devlin as tall as that player looks? According to Baseball-Reference, he was 5-7 and 135 lbs. That just doesn't seem large enough for the guy standing in the back row.

The photographer is Zeph Magill. He shows up in the Troy Street Directory from 1890 to 1893 identified as a photographer. By 1894 he is no longer listed under Photographer in the business guide, but he is listed up through 1897.

Devlin is likely the player in the back row, second from the left. Breckenridge would be the tallest player, who stood well over 6ft.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

Devlin is likely the player in the back row, second from the left. Breckenridge would be the tallest player, who stood well over 6ft.

The player standing second from the left in the back is the tallest player in the photo (or at least in the back row).

Are you including in the back row the seated player with his hands on another player's shoulders?