New HW Boxers Rated

[jrmorgan56]

CornerWork wuz here....

[Rocco Del Sesto]

I discussed in Mark,s (vistaman44) yahoo site that he started another HW's project I wanted to work on and that is to rate HW's not in the game who participated in various Title fights for crowns like the British Commonwealth HW, the European, South American and various HW crowns for for different countries.
So I decided to start with the British Commonwealth Title looking primarily at the years 1950-1980. There's actually quite a few of these HW's already in the game.

Here's the first one I've done that's not in it.

Kitione Lave - 1 Overall Rating
Nationality- Tonga
b. 1934-04-16
d.
Career, 1951-63
BoxRec. 027824
Record 41 wins / 17 losses / 2 draws / 34 KO

Kitione Lave accumulated a 28-6-2 record to advance himself to a position for a shot at the vacant British Commonwealth HW Title in June 1956 against Joe Bygraves(32-8-0). On his way up to that championship bout with Bygraves, Lave beat New Zealand HW Champion Don Mullett(17-8-0) in consecutive fights in 1954. He fought then Australian HW champion Ken Brady(11-3-0) after the Mullett bouts, loosing a 12 round decision. The two met against for 2 more fights in 1954 with Brady winning the first by KO and Lave KO'ing Brady in their 3rd bout. AFter the 1st Brady bout, Lave Ko'd future Australian HW Champion Allen Williams in 8 rounds. In 1955 he was KO'd in the 1st by Williams, then the Australian champ.

Lave during this time also lost fights to Joe Bygraves and Jack Gardner. As a warmup to his 2nd fight with Bygraves, the one for the Commonwealth crown, he KO'd Don Cockell in the 2nd round. It was Cockell's last career fight.

The scheduled 15 round fight with Bygraves for the Commonwealth Title went the full distance with Bygraves winning the decision.

Lave's career after the Commonwealth fight was only 13-10-0 with 1 NC. He managed to win an 8 round decision against Young Harry Wills and Federico Friso who you know from the Gerhard Zech replay. The biggest names fought though during this time, he could not beat. Defeats include a 3rd fight with Bygraves, a 10 round decision, a 10 round decision loss to Brian London, a 10 round decision loss to Franco Cavicchi, a 2nd round KO by Ulli Nitzschke and a 3rd round KO by Tom McNeeley who was 22-0 at the time.

If you fight Kitione against 1 HW's in the game, he will recreate his lifetime record pretty well. I simmed the games against the ones like London, Cavicchi who are in the game, 12 fights in total. The other 49 bouts simmed against random 1 fighters. Lave by the way was stopped only 6 times in 61 bouts, a pretty good chin to go with his decent punch. If you start fighting him against 2-3 rated fighters his record will start evening out and guys above that he'll start going south.


Control vs Boxer--5
Control vs Slugger--5
Hitting power--10
Chin vs knockdown--3
Chin vs knockout--2
Recovery--3
Cuts--2
Absorb punishment--3
Killer instinct--6
Aggressiveness--6
Endurance--6
Defense--4
Fast starter--3
Fight on ropes--3

Draw power--3
Conditioning--3
Intellect--6
Proficiency--10

Fight inside--3
Outside--1
Cover up--1
Go for KO--2
Clinching--69

Style-- Slugger
Fouls--Occasionally

Punches 2-pt. 3-pt.
Jabs 12.50 7.25
Hooks 10.25 9.50
Crosses 8.25 5.00
Combinations 14.00 10.75
Uppercuts 17.00 5.50

Punching--32
Counterpunching--30
Missed--65

Rocco

[swampdragon]

I like him. I think I prefer fighters with obvious strengths and weaknesses over the ones who are average at everything. Sounds like a fun project.

[djday45]

Rocco,
great additiion. I really like it you are adding guys that fought for the various national and international titles. It seems to make the game more varied and real using fighters from so many different nationalities.

rgds
Dean

[jrmorgan56]

Nice work...

[Hootowl 9]

Rocco,
I really do enjoy the Bio/background and History you display on the fighters you post. Not only does it give you a "feel" for the style and type of opponets he fought on the road to a "shot at greatness" or a fall from grace. It gives a great picture in the "minds-eye" of more than just another boxer, with another name, in a cast of thousands! As I see different era's and some of the same opponet names pop up,....well I find myself checking out these other common fighters from that era, or Country. Hell,..thats gotta be good for the game in general. Further I find myself pulling for a particular guy based on what I know about him. Like that style of fighter, just like the guy's bio,...ect...ect...
After reading "Two Ton" Tony Galento's bio, I always picked him when I played the board game with my kids. I know,...I know,...I need a life......lol
In any case, it take's some time to do the research to not only rate the guy, but give him a personality as well. Thank you very much for your efforts, it is appreciated!
Gerhard Zech....who would of thunk it!!

[wildhawke11]

Hootowl
I had a mail from you, i wrote back and also gave you a pm just wondering if you got them ?

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Glad your enjoying the bios Hootowl! Hope others are also. I feel they help to bring the fighters to life having that bit of information about them in front of you on the screen as your looking at the fighters in the data base. I think I enjoy looking that stuff up and writing about about as much as doing the ratings!

I'm working on play testing Albert Westphal right now to get him ready for his big fight with Zech! Hoping to have that ready by tomorrow sometime.

Rocco

[Hootowl 9]

HW- Derek Williams
> Won 15 of first 16 bouts.
>
> 1988-11-29:
> Won the vacant Commonwealth (British Empire) HW Title vs Young
> Haumona(TKO-4) at Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, England.
> (14th Bout)
> 1989-12-05:
> Won the vacant European HW Title vs Hugnroy Currie(TKO-1) at
> Crofton Leisure Centre, Gatford, England.
> 1990-02-03:
> Lost European HW Title to Jean Chanet(UD-12) at St. Dozier, France.
> 1990-05-28:
> In a rematch for the European HW Title, again loses to Jean Chanet
> (UD-12) at Paris, France.
> 1991-05-01:
> Regains the Commonwealth (British Empire) HW Title vs Jimmy Thunder
> (TKO-2) at York Hall, Bethnal Green, London,England
> 1992-04-30:
> Fights Lennox Lewis for the European HW Title, Commonwealth
> (British Empire) HW Title, and British HW Title. Badly outclassed by
> Lewis, he loses by TKO in the 3rd round. Held at Royal Albert Hall,
> Kensington, London, England.(Lewis wins the Lonsdale Belt outright)
> 1993-12-03:
> Fights in the "People's Choice One-Nite HW Tourament" held at Bay
> Street, St. Louis,MS USA. Loses in a 3rd SD to Jose Ribalta.
>
> Nameerek Williams
> Nickname: "Sweet-D"
> Country: United Kingdom
> Weight class: HW
> W-L-D, KOs: 22-13-0 (KO's-17)
> Career: 1984-1999
> BoxRec: 004493
> Born: 1965-03-11
> Died:
>
> Comments:
>
> Style/Fouls
> x/x Either/Seldom
>
> CFB/S x/x 5/5
> HP x 4
> CKD x 3
> CKO x 2
> REC x 2
> CUTS x 3
> AP x 3
> KI x 6
> AGG x 6
> END x 8
> DEF x 2
> FSt x 2
> ORo x 3
> DrP x 2
> CON x 2
> INT x 5
> PRF 10
> FI x 2
> FO x 2
> CU x 1
> GFK x 2
> CLI xx 71
> Punches:
> J xx/x 20.00/2.00
> H xx/x 16.25/3.50
> CR xx/x 19.50/3.00
> CB xx/x 15.75/3.50
> UC xx/x 14.00/2.50
> PL xx 36
> CP xx 36
> PM xx 64
> Overall x 2
>
> Creator: Fred, aka: Hootowl_9

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Gerhard Zech's 27th fight.... 1963-09-26, Hamburg, Germany
For the German Heavyweight Title......
Gerhard Zech (25-1-0) vs Albert Westphal (29-10-5)

Albert Westphal - 3 Overall Rating
Nationality- Germany
b. 1931-08-05
d.
Career, 1956-66
BoxRec. 011972
Record 42 wins / 14 losses / 6 draws / 25 KO

Westphal held the German Heavyweight Title for two different short periods in the late 50's and early 60's. He was another German HW who actually had a decent chin it would appear as he was stopped only 10 times in his 62 bouts. His career started out 4-1 against the usual array of nobodys when he went up against Willie Besmanoff in Sept. 1956. Besmanoff was 32-5-7 at the time. Albert didn't last long as he suffered the first of his 10 times stopped in a fight. Willie KO'd Albert in the 5th round.

Over his next 10 fights his record was a less then sparkling 6-3-1, including wins over Hans Peter Drabes and Jose Gonzales Sales and a loss to Franco Cavicchi, a 9th round KO. Though his was only 10-5-1 overall by early 1958, he was given a shot at the German Heavyweight crown in May 1958 against current champion Hans Kalbfell(19-4-0) who had defeated Heinz Neuhaus the previous September for the German title. Westphal wan a 5th round TKO over Kalbfell to put Albert on top of the German Heavyweight scene. Westphal successfuly defended his title twice in 1958; the first time a 6th round TKO of Heinz Neuhaus, the second time another 6th round TKO, this time against Gerhard Hetch. Both of those title defenses marked the last career fights of Neuhaus and Hetch.

In early 1959 he lost to Archie McBride, then in April of 1959 he lost the German Title back to Hans Kalbfell. Over the next couple of years Westphal's fights included wins over Al Kramp, Alain Cherville, Ulli Nitzschke, Robert Duquesne and Ulli Ritter all whom I've rated during the Zech replay. Albert also fought an 8 round draw with LHW Jimmy Slade. This happened to be Slades last career fight.

In June 1961 Albert won a 12 round decision rematch with Kalbfell to win back the German HW Title. It was a short reign though for Westphal as he lost the crown in his very next fight 3 months later, loosing a 12 round decision to Erich Schoppner(31-0-3). From then on through 1966, Westphal had up and down success including a number of bouts with fighters in the game. Wins against Ulli Ritter, Archie McBride, Rene Goubelle, Wim Snoek. He suffered losses to Sonny Liston, a 1st round KO which was Liston's last "warmup fight" before knocking out Floyd Patterson for the World HW Title in 1962. Westphal also lost fights to Archie McBride, Gerhard Zech(for the German HW Title that we'll be replaying), Joe Bygraves and Jefferson Davis. He drew 10 round fights with Federico Friso and Eduardo Corletti. Finally in April 1966, Westphal fought one more time for the German HW Title, this a rematch with Gerhard Zech. Zech KO'd Albert in the 5th round. Westphal then hung up the gloves for almost 5 years.

In February 1971 Albert came out of retirement and over the next 8 months from February thru October 1971 he fought 4 fights winning all of them, 4 by TKO. They were fights against some of the bottom of the barrel of the German heavyweights. The 4 fighters he beat had a combined career record of 22-111-10(7KO)!

These last 4 fights in 1971 I did not consider in my rating and play testing of Westphal.

Control vs Boxer--6
Control vs Slugger--6
Hitting power--7
Chin vs knockdown--4
Chin vs knockout--3
Recovery--3
Cuts--2
Absorb punishment--3
Killer instinct--5
Aggressiveness--6
Endurance--7
Defense--2
Fast starter--3
Fight on ropes--3

Draw power--3
Conditioning--5
Intellect--5
Proficiency--10

Fight inside--2
Outside--2
Cover up--1
Go for KO--1
Clinching--68

Style-- Slugger
Fouls--Seldom

Punches 2-pt. 3-pt.
Jabs 17.25 5.75
Hooks 6.50 1.75
Crosses 11.00 5.50
Combinations 16.75 8.75
Uppercuts 23.75 3.00

Punching--34
Counterpunching--32
Missed--65


Our real fight in Hamburg, Germany back in 1963 lasted until the 11th round when Gerhard dispatched Albert KO ing him and winning the German HW Title. In my replay, there was almost a sudden dramatic finish to this fight before it even hardly began.

Only a 1/2 minute into the fight Zech staggers Westphal into the ropes with a straight right and thne about 20 seconds later lands a shot to the ribcage that sends Westphal to the deck! The referee starts counting it off 1...2...3...4...5 man is this done already!....6...7..... Westphal gets up! Albert regroups himself and manages to finish the first round. Then in the 5th round it's Westphal's turn to almost end it with a punch. At teh 2:37 mark, Albert lands a jab that sends Zech down! Gerhard though manages to get himself up in 8 to get out of the round.

Those are the only times either fighter seriously looks to end the fight in a KO. They fight around each other the rest of the way in this scheduled 12 round fight with neither fighter taking any real big advantage over the other. But, Gerhard scores enough in each round to end up winning the German Title fight with a UD 12 win! 117-110, 117-110, 117-110 the scorers final count.

GERHARD ZECH (26-1-0) GERMAN HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION!!!

Our man Gerhard will not sit on his laurels for very long to savor his title. Less then 2 months later he'll climb back into the ring. This time for a rematch fight with Joe Bygraves.

Things will start to move along quicker with the replay as the bulk of Gerhard's remaining opponents we now have or already were rated in the game. There are though a handful more though of new Heavyweights to introduce along the way, so stay tuned!!

[jabbo]

Still following and enjoying the Zech replay. I have Zech rated around 170-200 among heavyweights active since 1960.

My top "needed" heavyweights of this era are as follow:
Howard Smith
Alexander Zolkin
Mike Hunter
Adilson Rodriguez
Axel Schulz
Mike Schutte
Eduardo Corletti

Saw Smith and Corletti posted, I think. If anyone has the others, I would appreciate them!

And does anyone know why Bob Cleroux and Alex Stewart are rated so highly in the game? Stewart has a higher rating than Quarry and Lyle! And the only heavies 1960-present who rate higher than Cleroux are Ali, Tyson, Liston, Holyfield, Holmes, Frazoer, Foreman and Bowe!

Bob

[vistaman44]

Jabbo;
I have Adilson Rodrigues from TF2001, and I think Schulz has been posted somewhere. Rocco posted Corletti. I'm pretty sure Heavyweight said he had Howard Smith, and I think I saw Zolkin at Rasmuth's site. I'll do some checking ...

[jabbo]

Thanks, Vistaman!

I feel very fortunate to have discovered this community of people with such a passion for boxing.

Jabbo

[vistaman44]

Here are Schulz, Rodrigues and Corletti.

Still looking for Zolkin and others.

[Hootowl 9]

Jabbo,
I have some of the fighters you refer to on my ratings list, so it should not be a long wait. Axel Schulz is already done, and my be further back in this thread. You may also go to the Cornerwork site where there may be more of the guys your looking for. I think Mike "The Bounty" Hunter is there also.
http://www.cornerwork.com/

I will soon be doing Adilson Rodriguez, have added Howard Smith to my list, Alexandre Zolkin, Alex Garcia, Martin Everett, David Jaco, Gary Mason, Oliver McCall, Henry Tillman, Jimmy Abbott, Jerry Jones, George Chaplin, Marvin Stinson, Jose Ribalta, to name a few,.....there will be others.

Please keep in mind that these are subjective ratings based on looking at a fighters career opponents, research, playtesting, other variables, input from other members here, and any other info I can garner and at times from my memory. (as a old fart,..57..I remember alot of these guy's...hehe)
I take this information (with alot of playtesting) and try to apply that to TBCB as it exits now. You could just take the ratings off the old game cards and enter that, however, your results in most cases would not mirror the real life results or talent of that fighter due to changes in the TBCB code. At least I believe that to be true.
I must say that I am learning how to rate fighters on the fly. There are many more here "much" more knowledgeable than I at this. I think the ratings I have done so far are fairly close.
I try to be sure a guys Ko's,..rounds fought, style,...ect...ect are as close to his career as I can make them. Not "dead on" but close I hope.
The whole process of doing this has taught me alot abot the game, boxers, and boxing history, and I guess I kind of enjoy doing it, as do many others here.
So if others in the community want to use these ratings thats great, I'll post them for consideration. If not, thats cool.
My project is small compared to what others have in the works.
In any case It's a great game that's only going to get better with the support from the company and developers!

[vistaman44]

Originally posted by Hootowl 9
Please keep in mind that these are subjective ratings based on looking at a fighters career opponents, research, playtesting, other variables, input from other members here, and any other info I can garner and at times from my memory. I take this information (with alot of playtesting) and try to apply that to TBCB as it exits now. You could just take the ratings off the old game cards and enter that, however, your results in most cases would not mirror the real life results or talent of that fighter due to changes in the TBCB code. At least I believe that to be true.

Fred's right, at least in my experience. The coding and rankiing have changed enough that just importing from TF2001 or typing in from the old cards isn't enough. Play testing and tweeking are musts.

I should also have remembered that Fred is the one who rated and posted Axel Schulz earlier (speaking of old farts disease). LOL

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Gerhard Zech's 28th fight.... 1963-11-08, Sports Palace, Berlin, Germany

Gerhard Zech (26-1-0) vs Joe Bygraves (41-24-1)

Bygraves is of course rated for this match already. In a previous fight between Zech and Bygraves, Zech in my replay won a 10th round KO. In real life, Bygraves in that first fight handed Zech his first career loss.

I remember that first replay with Bygraves touch off a little bit of discussion about the Byrgraves being rated low at a 1. Looking at his career and who he fought, that 1 would appear low. For the sake of this replay though, I'm sticking with the ratings as he came with the game. Maybe some play testing of Bygraves is another worthwhile project later on.

In our matchup in our fight here less then 2 months after Zech had dispatched Albert Westphal to win the German HW Title, Zech managed to avenge his earlier loss to Bygraves by gaining a 9th round TKO. In my replay, Bygraves again battle Zech tough through 5 rounds, but, Zech's heavy punches finally got to Joe and KO'd Bygraves in the 6th round for Zech's 27th win.

Next up will be another matchup against another new HW, Franco Badalassi who's not much to look at.....

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Gerhard Zech's 29th fight.... 1964-01-25, Berlin, Germany

Gerhard Zech (27-1-0) vs Franco Badalassi (11-2-1)

Franco Badalassi - 1 Overall Rating
Nationality- Italy
b. 1937-01-01
d.
Career, 1960-66
BoxRec. 024805
Record 12 wins / 6 losses / 2 draws / 5 KO

Started out career 10-1-1 against mostly all guys with fewer then 10 career fights. The one exception was against Calvin Butler, an American who came over to Italy apparently with hopes of keeping a floundering career going. Butler was 12-18-0 at the time he fought Badalassi. This fight was in the mist of a run of 12 straight losses that marked the end of Butler's career. Butler was disqualified in the 5th round.

In March 1963 Franco lost a 10 round decision to Giuseppe Migliari(12-0-1 at the time). Giuseppe would later go on to loose a fight with Sante Amonti for the Italian HW Title. Migliari and Badalassi fought 3 times in thier careers. Migliari gave Badalassi a tough time beating him twice and they drew the 3rd fight.

The only other fights of note in Badalassi's career were the fight with Gerhard Zech, an 8 round draw Ray Patterson, a journeyman HW of the late 60's to early 70's who won 26 fights in his career,and then straight losses to Guiseppe Ros and Johnny Prescott to end his career.

The way I have Badalassi rated, when you fight him against other 1 rated HW's, he's going to loose the majority of the time. He'll win maybe 6-8 fights on average in 20 bout sets. He KO 2-4 guys and get stopped 3-5 times on average himself. Because of the low level of competition in his career I felt replicating his career record against the 1's in the game would be over rating him. As he's rated again in 20 bout sets he'll win 6 or 8 bouts, sometimes up to 10. I didn't fight him against anything higher then a 1 fighter.

Control vs Boxer--4
Control vs Slugger--4
Hitting power--4
Chin vs knockdown--4
Chin vs knockout--3
Recovery--4
Cuts--3
Absorb punishment--3
Killer instinct--3
Aggressiveness--4
Endurance--6
Defense--6
Fast starter--3
Fight on ropes--3

Draw power--1
Conditioning--4
Intellect--2
Proficiency--10

Fight inside--1
Outside--2
Cover up--1
Go for KO--1
Clinching--67

Style-- Slugger
Fouls--Occasionally

Punches 2-pt. 3-pt.
Jabs 19.25 0.50
Hooks 17.25 1.75
Crosses 26.50 4.25
Combinations 6.75 1.75
Uppercuts 19.00 3.00

Punching--32
Counterpunching--30
Missed--64


On January 25th, back in 1964, Zech had little trouble with Badalassi, winning by TKO in the 4th round. In my replay, Badalassi managed to go a couple round farther. Again, Zech never really had much trouble with Badalassi as far as the Italian doing any real damage to Zech, but, Zech as seems to be the norm with him, takes his sweet time dispatching with an opponent that maybe he should have made quick business of.

Zech batters the Italian around for 5 frames. He does knocked Franco down early in the 5th round for an 8 count, but the Italian battles back for 1 more round. Finally before the 6th round has hardly started, the referee stops the fight with the Italian's eyes a battered mess and at the 0:30th mark of the 6th round, Zech earns his 28th victory against 1 loss with a TKO victory over Franco Badalassi.

Enjoy Badalassi for what he's worth, a HW for your top fighters to beat up on and fatten up thier records if you will.

Next up a BIG fight for Zech and maybe his first real true test in the heavyweight division in world competition as he will travel out of Germany for only the 2nd time and on to America for the one and only time in his career!

March 6th, 1964 be with us at Madison Square Garden in New York City as Gerhard Zech (28-1-1) German Heavyweight Champion looks to move up in the world rankings by taking on top heavyweight contender Ernie Terrell (32-4-0).

Be with us at the Garden!

[Rocco Del Sesto]

I was thinking a little more about Bygraves and if you look at his career on BoxRec., I begin to see maybe why in part he is a 1 rating overall. His career starts out 35-9-0. If you look at who he fought in that time, not a lot of names you'll recognize let alone ones you'll see already rated in the game. He gets beat by Henry Cooper, Franco Cavicchi, Ingemar Johansson, Wayne Bathea. He does beat Henry Cooper in a rematch to defend the British Empire Commonwealth title he holds that he won defeating Kitione Lave.

After that win over Cooper, he begins to fight many of the top heavyweights around, ones you see in the game. If record also goes deep south with those tougher opponents. He goes only 7-20-1 the rest of his career! Look at who beat him in that stretch and who his few victories were over and I feel anyway why he might have gotten that 1. Looking at his career though it would make for another interesting replay with many new fighters to look at.

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Working some on my project to rate some Heavyweights who participated in some various International title fights I present to you Stephane Olek, French HW from 1942-52. Olek fought a couple times for the European HW Title.

You'll probably look at his ratings and say Rocco your nuts. But, I think you'll find over all he'll average his .500 record with 10-15 KO's and 1 or 2 times he'll be stopped in 42 bout sets (he was stopped only 1 time in 42 fights and he had 13KO's).

So, Mark all, hope you'll enjoy Olek if nothing else to bring on a lively debate on rating! To me I admit the ratings look strange but they seem to work.

Rocco