2025 Detroit Tigers: We sure do love bargain bin pitchers!

[cephasjames]

Tigers hiring Giants GM to lead baseball operations

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Tigers hiring Giants GM to lead baseball operations

I have read 3 or 4 different articles and I still can’t find whether he is the President of Baseball operations and the GM or just the President and he will get to hire a GM? Anyone know?

[Hrycaj]

Looks like Harris will hire a GM. Not sure how many people had a chance to listen to the press conference but I thought he did really well. One of the tenants of his plan is to really concentrate on player development. If anyone has read any of my past criticisms of Avila it was in the player development department. So that was really nice to hear. I like how he wants players to attack the zone both from the mound and the plate and I liked how he plans to be very active this offseason signing players and swinging deals. He said you can't be afraid to take risks and he doesn't want follow another teams blueprint for success. Really looking forward to see what type of player fits his "Detroit Blueprint".

[Cod]

How much control did Harris actually have in SF? I was always under the impression (probably incorrectly) that Farhan Zaidi was controlling most of the GM things even though he moved up to President of Baseball Ops. Also, Harris' time in Chicago has some red flags that I hope he can overcome. He was a big part of bringing Addison Russell back after he was found guilty of domestic violence and Harris worked alongside Jarrod Porter (the guy fired by the Mets in 2020 after it was revealed he harassed multiple women in the workplace). This was the past and I'm trying not to judge him on that, but I'm sure some people have him under a microscope.

Now let's talk the baseball side of things. Here's some of the biggest things Harris must handle in year one:

• Three of the worst contracts in baseball (Cabrera, Baez, Rodriguez)
• Player option for Schoop - find a way for him NOT to exercise the player option
• Find a catcher that can help the young starters grow and mature
• Figure out what the hell is wrong with Detroit's player development pipeline

Those are just the things that pop into my head immediately and in no particular order, although I could see that order being a valid one.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by Cod

How much control did Harris actually have in SF? I was always under the impression (probably incorrectly) that Farhan Zaidi was controlling most of the GM things even though he moved up to President of Baseball Ops. Also, Harris' time in Chicago has some red flags that I hope he can overcome. He was a big part of bringing Addison Russell back after he was found guilty of domestic violence and Harris worked alongside Jarrod Porter (the guy fired by the Mets in 2020 after it was revealed he harassed multiple women in the workplace). This was the past and I'm trying not to judge him on that, but I'm sure some people have him under a microscope.

Now let's talk the baseball side of things. Here's some of the biggest things Harris must handle in year one:

• Three of the worst contracts in baseball (Cabrera, Baez, Rodriguez)
• Player option for Schoop - find a way for him NOT to exercise the player option
• Find a catcher that can help the young starters grow and mature
• Figure out what the hell is wrong with Detroit's player development pipeline

Those are just the things that pop into my head immediately and in no particular order, although I could see that order being a valid one.

I would love to read anything you have about Harris being a big part in the Addison Russell decision. Everything I could find talked about how at 25, Harris traveled with the team and was a part of current roster maintenance. Things like placing guys on the IL, sending guys up and down and communicating with the coaching staff. It actually sounded like Theo thought he was an easy target and was kind of bullying/hazing him. It didn’t sound like he was trusted to make that big a decision yet. I mean when the Cubs won the WS and went to the White House, Harris didn’t even get a spot on the stage. I’m not saying your wrong, I’m just interested in expanding my knowledge base on the guy that will be running the Tigers. If anything I think Theo has a few skeletons in his closet. Although, that may be my negative bias towards Epstein showing here.

As for the time Harris spent with the Giants I wonder myself how much control he actually had? Whenever you hear anything about the Giants it is Zaidi’s name attached to it. I would be willing to bet that most people didn’t even know that Harris was the GM in San Francisco. People probably thought it was Zaidi actually. We may not have to look any further than the fact that the Tigers landed Harris. This may be his first true opportunity to really be the decision maker. Something had to pull him from being the GM of the team he rooted for as a child.

As for your list I think it is spot on. The order doesn’t matter so much as long as player development is first. It all starts and ends there with me. The contracts, while I agree are horrible, will rectify themselves in time. Cabrera comes off the books in a year and two bad contracts shouldn’t completely handcuff the teams ability to spend. Plus the luxury tax is a joke. Spend the money and pay the fine if you have to. I’m not a fan of billionaire owners trying to sell poverty to their fanbase.

I enjoy reading your stuff Cod. It generates a lot of good discussion.

[cephasjames]

I don't think the Baez and Rodriguez contracts are bad overall...yet. Detroit had a weird year this year. Baez was not alone in having an off year. Rodriguez had injuries and issues and never really got into form. If their issues persist into next year, then I'm 100% on board with their contracts being bad.

[Westheim]

Isn't Miguel Cabrera off the books after next year anyway? Assuming he doesn't finish top 10 in MVP, for which there's no real threat right now?

[Cod]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

I don't think the Baez and Rodriguez contracts are bad overall...yet. Detroit had a weird year this year. Baez was not alone in having an off year. Rodriguez had injuries and issues and never really got into form. If their issues persist into next year, then I'm 100% on board with their contracts being bad.

Detroit has ~$39M tied up in Baez and Rodriguez through the 2026 season. Rodriguez could turn his contract into a good one; however, the other guy...

Baez has a lifetime average OPS+ of 103. That makes him equal to the MLB average over his career. Also, he strikes out just over a quarter of his at-bats, and this season is career year for him thus far at only 25.3%. Baez's defense has been getting worse over the past two seasons as well, even though his career average was already low at (0.966). If you're going to pay a guy ~$23M AAV, you can't have an very average (some would say below average) hitter with sub-par defense at a premier position. Can anyone honestly tell me that Baez should be the 30th highest paid player based on AAV? (https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/average/)

I hope I'm wrong because my wife is from Detroit and I know she really wants to see them win again one day.

[Cod]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Isn't Miguel Cabrera off the books after next year anyway? Assuming he doesn't finish top 10 in MVP, for which there's no real threat right now?

Even if he wins MVP, the team has an $8M buy-out option after the 2023 season.

[Cod]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

I would love to read anything you have about Harris being a big part in the Addison Russell decision. Everything I could find talked about how at 25, Harris traveled with the team and was a part of current roster maintenance. Things like placing guys on the IL, sending guys up and down and communicating with the coaching staff. It actually sounded like Theo thought he was an easy target and was kind of bullying/hazing him. It didn’t sound like he was trusted to make that big a decision yet. I mean when the Cubs won the WS and went to the White House, Harris didn’t even get a spot on the stage. I’m not saying your wrong, I’m just interested in expanding my knowledge base on the guy that will be running the Tigers. If anything I think Theo has a few skeletons in his closet. Although, that may be my negative bias towards Epstein showing here.

All the articles I read pointed to the fact that Harris was the Assistant GM at the time and in many front offices, that position does more of the behind-the-scenes work whereas the GM is "face". So I made an assumption, maybe wrongly? I don't know enough about Theo to make a judgement, but typically, you don't shoot up the ranks of any job without skeletons in your closet.

As for the time Harris spent with the Giants I wonder myself how much control he actually had? Whenever you hear anything about the Giants it is Zaidi’s name attached to it. I would be willing to bet that most people didn’t even know that Harris was the GM in San Francisco. People probably thought it was Zaidi actually. We may not have to look any further than the fact that the Tigers landed Harris. This may be his first true opportunity to really be the decision maker. Something had to pull him from being the GM of the team he rooted for as a child.

I agree with you. Also, this hiring may not be a bad thing considering Detroit has followed the status quo with previous highers. Fresh thinking may be the needed catalyst the club needs to right the ship.

As for your list I think it is spot on. The order doesn’t matter so much as long as player development is first. It all starts and ends there with me. The contracts, while I agree are horrible, will rectify themselves in time. Cabrera comes off the books in a year and two bad contracts shouldn’t completely handcuff the teams ability to spend. Plus the luxury tax is a joke. Spend the money and pay the fine if you have to. I’m not a fan of billionaire owners trying to sell poverty to their fanbase.

Agree.

I enjoy reading your stuff Cod. It generates a lot of good discussion.

Thanks! Sometimes I feel like I'm sharing my opinions in a bubble, so I'm glad someone gets value from it...even if my opinion is disagreed with (or ends up wrong). I'm enjoying this entire thread honestly.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by Cod

Can anyone honestly tell me that Baez should be the 30th highest paid player based on AAV?

Does he deserve to be the 6th highest paid shortstop based on AAV (which is more relevant than where he falls overall)? Yes, currently he does. He won't stay there forever because other SS will get signed to higher contracts than him in the future. But for the SS who have recently been signed to new or extended contracts, he's getting what he deserves.

Of course, I use the word "deserve" sarcastically because I think that most of the people on that list you linked to don't "deserve" what they're getting paid. Max Scherzer certainly doesn't "deserve" $43M. Nor does Garrit Cole "deserve" $36M. I don't even think Mike Trout "deserves" $35.5M. Except that in the context of when they signed those contracts, that's what they "deserved" in order to be signed.

Baez is no different. In the context of when he signed a contract, he got what he "deserved" according to the market. He is considered a high-end shortstop (YMMV) and he got paid like a high-end shortstop. But he didn't get paid like the best high-end shortstop. He got paid what he "deserved." IMO, most every contract for players who are considered high-end are "bad" contracts. In that sense, sure, Javy's contract is bad. But according to the context of when that contract was given, he got what he deserved. Not the highest, nor the lowest.

I will agree that thus far he has not lived up to that contract. But neither did half (or more) of the Tigers' team. Time will tell if he improves and produces more of those 110+ OPS+ seasons or puts up better fielding numbers like he has in the past. Not that I'm apologist for the guy or anything. He was my least favorite choice out of all the SS available this past season.

[Cod]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Does he deserve to be the 6th highest paid shortstop based on AAV (which is more relevant than where he falls overall)? Yes, currently he does. He won't stay there forever because other SS will get signed to higher contracts than him in the future.

He has a career slash line of .261 / .303 / .464 and he's been the MLB average defensively over his career. In my opinion, the average MLB player should not account for a ~10% hit against the luxury tax threshold. Better shortstops have signed for less in recent years. Brandon Crawford signed a 2-yr / $32M deal this past offseason.For $4M less per, you get a player with a similar average, 5-times more walks, and much better play defensively. Looking back a few years (2019, I think?), Xander Bogaerts signed a deal worth $20M/year (after first year) over 7-years. Both players are an upgrade in my opinion.

As a front office, you have to look at signings holistically, especially with the coming offseason's free agent class of shortstops:

• Tim Anderson (club option will probably be exercised)
• Xander Bogaerts (will likely opt out)
• Carlos Correa (will likely opt out)
• Trea Turner
• Dansby Swanson
• Aledmys Diaz
• Jose Iglesias

I think all, but one of the list above are an upgrade over Baez. This is less about Baez and more about Detroit's abysmal front office.

Of course, I use the word "deserve" sarcastically because I think that most of the people on that list you linked to don't "deserve" what they're getting paid.

I agree with you here, deserved is probably not the best word. Worth/Value may be better?

I will agree that thus far he has not lived up to that contract. But neither did half (or more) of the Tigers' team. Time will tell if he improves and produces more of those 110+ OPS+ seasons or puts up better fielding numbers like he has in the past. Not that I'm apologist for the guy or anything. He was my least favorite choice out of all the SS available this past season.

In the 4 seasons he had an OPS+ over 110, he had some great hitters around him. I don't see that happening any time soon in Detroit unless Torkleson and others figure it out quickly. And Baez's approach at the plate this season has been atrocious. Granted, this could very well be a coaching issue as well.

With all the negativity I'm spewing, I want to throw something positive in there. Baez is an electric player and so much fun to watch in the field on non-routine plays. His ability to tag, use his cannon of an arm, etc. is always fun to see play-out. Honestly, I think he's going to flourish in the WBC next year. MLB is going to be the same ole story unfortunately I believe. Again, hope I'm wrong.

[cephasjames]

Tigers won't lose 100!! Woohoo!!

[CONN CHRIS]

... and out of the basement for now. Take the wins where they lay!

[Hrycaj]

You guys read my mind. Per today standings there are 5 teams with a worse record than what the Tigers have? As bad as this season has been it could have actually been worse? There could be potentially 9 teams that the won’t win 70 games and 2 that may not hit 60 wins. The Nats won the World Series in 2019 and now sit at a league worst 54-101. Although, in fairness the Nats had a great run of competitiveness from 2012 to 2019. I know I’m getting off track a bit here but the way things went in Washington it looks like they squeaked out that WS as their window was quickly slamming shut on them.

[cephasjames]

Miguel Cabrera will return to Detroit Tigers for 2023 season

I have enjoyed having Miggy be a Tiger over the years but dude is old, not as good as he needs to be in order to have a roster spot, and really just needs to call it quits. I'm fine with Detroit eating the final year of his contract.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

I don't think the Baez and Rodriguez contracts are bad overall...yet. Detroit had a weird year this year. Baez was not alone in having an off year. Rodriguez had injuries and issues and never really got into form. If their issues persist into next year, then I'm 100% on board with their contracts being bad.

They gave 20 million for a guy to get a .674 OPS, with more strikeouts than games played. Even his DWar was only 0.4, with 26 errors to go along with his .954 fielding percentage.

They paid 2.8 million for each win for Rodriguez.

Baez goes from arguably the best hitting park in MLB with a career OPS+ of 102, and already starting his decline phase...what did you think would happen? He's out of the league in three years.

[Cod]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Miguel Cabrera will return to Detroit Tigers for 2023 season :(

I have enjoyed having Miggy be a Tiger over the years but dude is old, not as good as he needs to be in order to have a roster spot, and really just needs to call it quits. I'm fine with Detroit eating the final year of his contract.

I think we all saw this coming because it's the final "big year" of his contract. If the 2023 season wasn't worth $30+ million, he would've hung up the spikes.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Cod

I think we all saw this coming because it's the final "big year" of his contract. If the 2023 season wasn't worth $30+ million, he would've hung up the spikes.

Hell..at this point, I want Pujols to come back. His OPS for the year is .895

[cephasjames]

Tigers fire hitting coach, reassign others in postseason shakeup

The Tigers released hitting coach Scott Coolbaugh and will reassign assistant hitting coach Mike Hessman within the organization, manager A.J. Hinch announced Friday morning.

Longtime Tigers player and coach Ramon Santiago, who served as third base coach in 2022, will be reassigned to a role working with minor-leaguers in 2023. Additionally, quality control coach Josh Paul will not be asked back next season.

Alfredo Amézaga, who was promoted to the big-league club coaching staff from Triple-A Toledo in September, has been hired as first base coach for 2023.

Gary Jones, who served as first base coach until being struck by a foul ball and suffering an injury that limited his mobility, will be back with the big-league club next year in a role to be determined.

bench coach George Lombard; pitching coach Chris Fetter; and bullpen coach Juan Nieves are slated to return.