2025 Detroit Tigers: We sure do love bargain bin pitchers!

[cephasjames]

Tigers part ways with longtime scouting director Scott Pleis

[Cod]

This is what a rebuild is supposed to look like if you don't have:

1. A Major League club that makes the playoffs regularly; or
2. A loaded minor league system with talent and depth

Detroit has neither, so the new leadership is executing a rebuild the right way finally. I'm excited to see what kind of moves they make to the front office and baseball operations departments this off season.

[Cod]

Not sure if any of y'all live in Detroit (or willing to move there) and looking for a great opportunity, but a friend of mine reached out today to share these openings in the Tigers' baseball operations department:

https://www.teamworkonline.com/multi...ations-2024660
https://www.teamworkonline.com/multi...ations-2024654

Looking at the details, the team is really looking to update how they do things and need some fresh minds to help them change their fortunes.

[Cod]

How do y'all feel about this?

https://www.mlive.com/tigers/2022/09...sk-averse.html

[Hrycaj]

I think he absolutely has to be. Part of this is having the ability to read the room. Tigers fans were patient for a rebuild that Avila came on the radio and declared finished. They started to spend money and everything still went down the tubes. Harris can't come in and do the same thing. The club has to take some risks and now is the time when they have payroll flexibility.

[Cod]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

I think he absolutely has to be. Part of this is having the ability to read the room. Tigers fans were patient for a rebuild that Avila came on the radio and declared finished. They started to spend money and everything still went down the tubes. Harris can't come in and do the same thing. The club has to take some risks and now is the time when they have payroll flexibility.

Now that the official list of free agents is out, minus option players, what big splash would you make if you were the Tigers GM for a day?

[CONN CHRIS]

I loved this line from him:

" This isn’t the front office’s team. This isn’t the players’ team. This is Detroit’s team"



My off-the-wall FA hope is that they take a shot at Joey Gallo. I know, I know - what the heck am I thinking!

I think that he will go relatively cheap with few suiters. I would love to see that arm in RF and pray that a change of scenery and a lower-pressure city than NY or LA will bring a little of the offensive pop back. I wouldn't sign him for more than a year or two and obviously, this isn't a real problem solver but is a flyer I would like to see them take. They will need to spend some money, make some painful trades and take some risks that they can only hope will pay off.

[CONN CHRIS]

Splash? How about sign Carlos Correa? Deal Candelaria for what you can get, move Baez to third and take a star from a divisional rival.

[CONN CHRIS]

... Or, sign Mancini or Bell, move Tork back to third and deal Candelaria.

[CONN CHRIS]

The Bird taking BP, signing autographs, and flashing his HoF smile in Tiger Stadium circa 1976. I miss the 70s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb07hVtUcXA

[CONN CHRIS]

Thinking of Fidrych, here is his fantastic Monday Night Baseball game against the Yankees - June of 1976, when he became a household name that rookie season. Amazing to see how quickly he worked on the mound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwGj4VfCreg

[cephasjames]

Lou Whitaker snubbed by Hall of Fame again; Detroit Tigers great left off vet ballot

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by Cod

Now that the official list of free agents is out, minus option players, what big splash would you make if you were the Tigers GM for a day?

Loaded question! You would have to give me more than a day on the job! I’m kidding, I get the spirit of the question. So let’s play along. The names on my list are chosen with a few things in mind. First, I don’t think you do this without trading players but that gets to be too tough to figure out with the limited information I have. In my opinion trading players has a lot to do with relationships the front office has established with other clubs. To venture a guess at who Harris is on good working terms with around the league would be too tough to gauge. Also, in this scenario I am the boss and I have NO relationship with any organization! So I’ll just stick with the free agent list. To do that I still think you need a plan. Here is mine in a nutshell.

1. This all revolves around Tork and Greene. They have to be given time and support to develop into the players they were drafted to be. They are NOT aircraft carriers yet and to put that expectation on them is a recipe for disaster.

Although he was a -5 defensive runs saved this season I think Tork’s future is at 1B. He has shown to have really good hands (saved a number of Baez throws this year) and I think he will improve quicker at that position than he would at the hot corner.

I would be looking to move Greene to LF. He did not play a bad CF but I feel if I can add a CF, he would look good in LF

2. With the new MLB rules going into place I want to identify contact. I want guys on base as there is simply too much swing and miss in the lineup. I have always been a fan of guys that can put the ball in play and don’t strike out so the new rules fit my philosophy nicely.

3. This has to be somewhat believable. Dansby Swanson or Trea Turner are not coming to Detroit. The Tigers are not in a spot where that type of player would consider Detroit as they are currently constructed. These guys can get top dollar from contenders right now. I don’t even think the Tigers could land them if they went over asking. Also, there is zero chance that a team can sign eight or nine known free agents. So we will keep it to four players.

Sign Wilson Contreras. Although I want to for the most part want to target contact hitters, the catching position is a bit of a different animal. Backstop is probably one of the biggest needs on the club. I know the hope is Dingler sooner than later but the catching position takes longer to develop than others. Give me Contreras who has a good personality, can handle a pitching staff, and will add some much needed pop to the lineup. If Dingler does make the club, let him learn behind Contreras. Since he didn’t get dealt at the deadline last year maybe the Tigers can land him. Maybe he has a good relationship with Baez and he can help recruit. This is not a deep free agent class at the position. If the Tigers can’t sign Contreras then Christian Vazquez becomes a must.

As much as I would like to move Baez off of SS I don’t think he moves either way on the diamond unless the Tigers bring in a premier SS. He isn’t moving for Jose Iglesias. So since I already shared that I don’t think any premier SS is coming to Detroit that leaves 2B or 3B. So who is more expendable? Candelario or Schoop? I’m going to try and give Jeimer another shot. He had a career year in 2021 and a career worst in 2022. Can I get somewhere in the middle? If I can it should be better than what Schoop can provide offensively.

That mindset allows me to go after Kolton Wong. Wong is a good professional hitter that gets on base at an above-average clip. It is another left handed bat added to the lineup and he can steal a few bases. He could lead off for this team.

Now for the guy that may be stretch (actually they probably all are a stretch) is if I can trust the medicals I will overpay for Brandon Nimmo. When healthy he is an offensive catalyst. Would he come to Detroit? Who knows, but I would make the offer a difficult one to turn away from. Nimmo can play center but if the manager wants to keep Greene in center Nimmo can play either corner. Whatever, I need that bat in the lineup.

I would leave RF alone and play Carpenter and another right handed hitter and platoon it out and save my 4th signing for the rotation.

With all the injuries to the rotation this club needs a staff catalyst. I don’t know if any of these players are truly attainable but my list would begin with Carlos Rodon. I wanted him last year and I would have been right. 178 innings in today's MLB is as good as it gets. He throws strikes, he is the complete guy for me. Of course 29 other teams think so now as well. So upset they didn’t target him last season. If Rodon was gone then Martin Perez (first) and Sean Maneaa (second) both become targets. Perez is the established guy of the group but Manaea needs a solid home and Detroit could provide it. Plus I like the pitching coaches in Detroit and they could maybe iron Manaea out and get a cost efficient find. If all other options were off the table I would give a hard look at Tyler Anderson. While a bit older he is another lefty that can give you innings and throws strikes. He has never had a chance to pitch toward the top of the rotation so that may be a selling point. I would also consider taking a flier on Zach Eflin if all else fails but the double knee surgeries concern me with pitchers. Safe to say though I think this team needs an arm in the rotation.

So here is what the positional lineup looks like:

C Contreras R
1B Tork R
2B Wong L
SS Baez R
3B Candy S
LF Greene L
CF Nimmo L
RF Carpenter L/ Castro? Haase? Reyes?
DH Cabrera R (Because they are committed to letting him ride out on his own terms)

Does this lineup win the Central? Probably not, however it is much better in terms of balance. It has a real lead off hitter in Wong, thump from Nimmo, Contreras and Baez and provides matchup problems for opposing bullpens. It doesn’t strike out as much, gets on base more and takes the pressure off Tork and Greene. The addition of a starter to the staff gives that team more length and you can still sign a few low priced bullpen arms. Maybe even bring Fulmer back.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Lou Whitaker snubbed by Hall of Fame again; Detroit Tigers great left off vet ballot

He is better than current Hall of Fame second basemen. Unfortunate.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

It has a real lead off hitter in Wong, thump from Nimmo,

Kolten Wong has a career OBP of .334. His best season was .376 (his second-best was only .361) and that was in 2017. As a 32-year-old middle infielder, he's likely to decline fairly fast.

In contrast, "thumper" Brandon Nimmo has a career OBP of .385. The .367 he posted this year, in an off-season, would be Wong's second-highest ever. His average season is better than Wong's best. Just saying.

As for "thump", Nimmo's ISO is .172, which is nice enough (Wong is at .137) but won't get him into any Home Run Derbies. His current teammate (and top 5 comp) Tyler Naquin is a .184, for example.

(Baez is .204. Miggy is .216, but no longer at that level, obviously.)

Just so you know.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Kolten Wong has a career OBP of .334. His best season was .376 (his second-best was only .361) and that was in 2017. As a 32-year-old middle infielder, he's likely to decline fairly fast.

In contrast, "thumper" Brandon Nimmo has a career OBP of .385. The .367 he posted this year, in an off-season, would be Wong's second-highest ever. His average season is better than Wong's best. Just saying.

As for "thump", Nimmo's ISO is .172, which is nice enough (Wong is at .137) but won't get him into any Home Run Derbies. His current teammate (and top 5 comp) Tyler Naquin is a .184, for example.

(Baez is .204. Miggy is .216, but no longer at that level, obviously.)

Just so you know.

I never made the argument that Wong was providing thump. I said he was a leadoff hitter. If you as a Mets fan don't like Nimmo that is fine. I would take him and he would automatically be the best bat in the Tigers lineup. Unfortunately, this isn't ootp where you can grab the best and every possible free agent possible. Wong may be in decline but he is the type of player Detroit can get right now. He would produce at the top of the lineup at a better clip than what the Tigers are currently getting. What would you suggest?

[Amazin69]

And I debunked Wong as a "leadoff hitter". I personally love Nimmo, and if I were to give a crap about what Numfred has turned "baseball" into, I would hope the Mets keep him, but I'm trying to keep my feelings out of it.

To reiterate: Wong ain't no "leadoff hitter". Nimmo is only average (or below) as a "thumper". Depending on them to fill those roles seems a poor risk.

JMO.

ETA: I do see that Wong's .339 OBP was better than anybody in your 2022 lineup. (Riley Greene's .321 "led" the way. Yoicks.). But you should aim higher. There are probably 20 FAs with better on-base skills. And if you have Nimmo, putting Wong ahead of him would be very, very silly, IMO.

So…y'all had 9 Javy Baez wannabes in the lineup and didn't win? Gee, I'm shocked. (*giggles*)

ETAA: Lipcius for 3B, I'd say. And hit him leadoff, if you don't sign a vet with a proven skill. Keep Carpenter. Pray for Reyes/Torkelson/Greene to develop. Dump everyone else that you can.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

And I debunked Wong as a "leadoff hitter". I personally love Nimmo, and if I were to give a crap about what Numfred has turned "baseball" into, I would hope the Mets keep him, but I'm trying to keep my feelings out of it.

To reiterate: Wong ain't no "leadoff hitter". Nimmo is only average (or below) as a "thumper". Depending on them to fill those roles seems a poor risk.

JMO.

ETA: I do see that Wong's .339 OBP was better than anybody in your 2022 lineup. (Riley Greene's .321 "led" the way. Yoicks.). But you should aim higher. There are probably 20 FAs with better on-base skills. And if you have Nimmo, putting Wong ahead of him would be very, very silly, IMO.

So…y'all had 9 Javy Baez wannabes in the lineup and didn't win? Gee, I'm shocked. (*giggles*)

ETAA: Lipcius for 3B, I'd say. And hit him leadoff, if you don't sign a vet with a proven skill. Keep Carpenter. Pray for Reyes/Torkelson/Greene to develop. Dump everyone else that you can.

20 on the Free Agent list? Not likely. As for Lipcius that may be an option. As for ripping the Tigers that is easy to do. I think everyone knows they were terrible.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

20 on the Free Agent list? Not likely.

Actually, as it turns out, there are 21 current free agents with a career OBP higher than Wong's .334. Which isn't a bad guess, considering I pulled it completely out of nowhere.

(Also, BBRef doesn't list Wong as a free agent. Do we know for sure that Milwaukee isn't exercising his option? And if he's to come on the market later on, then others could, as well, so this list might be even longer.)

Aaron Judge, .394
Brandon Nimmo, .385
Andrew McCutcheon, .369
Matt Carpenter, .369
Carlos Santana, .359
Michael Brantley, .356
Brandon Belt, .356
Trea Turner, .355
Jose Abreu, .354
J.D. Martinez, .352
Josh Bell, .351
Andrew Benintendi, .351
Wilson Contreras, .349
Robbie Grossman, .346
Nelson Cruz, .344
Cesar Hernandez, .341
David Peralta, .339
Matt Duffy, .337
Adam Frazier, .336
Mitch Haniger, .335
Joc Pederson, .335

Actually, what this list tells me is that the Mets had better keep Nimmo…

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Actually, as it turns out, there are 21 current free agents with a career OBP higher than Wong's .334. Which isn't a bad guess, considering I pulled it completely out of nowhere.

(Also, BBRef doesn't list Wong as a free agent. Do we know for sure that Milwaukee isn't exercising his option? And if he's to come on the market later on, then others could, as well, so this list might be even longer.)

Aaron Judge, .394
Brandon Nimmo, .385
Andrew McCutcheon, .369
Matt Carpenter, .369
Carlos Santana, .359
Michael Brantley, .356
Brandon Belt, .356
Trea Turner, .355
Jose Abreu, .354
J.D. Martinez, .352
Josh Bell, .351
Andrew Benintendi, .351
Wilson Contreras, .349
Robbie Grossman, .346
Nelson Cruz, .344
Cesar Hernandez, .341
David Peralta, .339
Matt Duffy, .337
Adam Frazier, .336
Mitch Haniger, .335
Joc Pederson, .335

Actually, what this list tells me is that the Mets had better keep Nimmo…

Whatever. Im not concerned as much about career numbers. I’ll take recency bias compared to the guys on your list with their best years behind them. Last season Wong had a .339 obp. .335 the year before. I would take a chance on him if he does become a free agent. (It is not clear what is going on with the opt out) The players that are legitimately better would probably not be accepting an offer from the Tigers. It is clear you don’t like Wong, it’s your opinion. He may actually be on the decline, but he is someone that I think is a plausible risk. Also, you haven’t convinced me that he couldn’t hit lead off in Detroit or at the very least provide an upgrade to the lineup regardless of where he hits.