Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[Buccos]

Donn Clendenon as well.

EDIT: Oh heck, is Clendenon's nickname 'Clink'?

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by SDL

Actually, a few more '69 Mets are at the Great Shea Stadium In The Sky

Danny Frisella, Don Cardwell, and Cal Koonce are there as well as Gil Hodges, Rube Walker and Eddie Yost.

Damn, I forgot about Cardwell and Koonce. And of course I knew about Danny and the damn dune buggy, but I thought he spent the entire season in the minors. Nope, three games as a September call-up. So that makes six, and brings the empty chairs total a little closer to Seattle's.

We could also count Jim Bibby, were we so inclined. Never got into a game, but he was on the roster in September and can be seen in the division-clinching clubhouse celebration footage. (He's wearing #49, whooping it up with Amos Otis.)

And I left out the Manager and the coaches as, being older to begin with, it's not that surprising for them to have gone on. Actually though, that widens the Mets/Pilots gap; Joe Pignatano is still around to tell tales of the Shea Stadium Tomato Patch (the tomatoes weren't planted until the mid-70s, but still), whereas Joe Schultz can't pound any more Budweiser, Sal Maglie can't second-guess pitchers, Eddie O'Brien isn't telling anybody to put their hat on, and Frankie Crosetti, Ron Plaza, and Sibby Sisti are likewise gone.

And I did miss one more Pilot (although given the amount of churn they had on that team, I'm glad it was only one), with Jose Vidal having traded in one set of wings for another back in 2011. Vaya con dios, Papito.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by Buccos.com

Donn Clendenon as well.

EDIT: Oh heck, is Clendenon's nickname 'Clink'?

Pretty sure he's talking about Clank, Curt Blefary, who died in 2001.

[rico43]

Originally Posted by FatJack

I had thought about that. But it would seem to me that the players in question--like Leon Brown, for example--would not charge a great deal for the use of their images. They'd probably be more than happy to do it just to have some licensed cards they could pass on to their kids and grandkids. We're not talking major stars, here, who can command thousands for their autographs. Deceased players might be more problematic (no telling what the families would see as the value), but a guy like Leon Brown...I'm telling you, he'd do it for free. A&G, another Topps brand, has done similar things with Negro Leaguers. I'd wager those rights cost more than a guy who got a cup of coffee 50 years ago. Most collectors I know would be thrilled to chase such cards as opposed to yet another insert of Jackie Robinson featuring the same picture they've used a hundred times before. Yes, they already have Robinson's rights paid for, and, yes, its Jackie Robinson. But, again, I doubt guys who managed a handful of games in the bigs would charge much and the collectors I know would gladly chase them with enthusiasm. I know I'd buy more product to collect such cards (I'd much rather get 'em out of a pack than on the secondary market).

As to Billy Williams, I'm sorry to hear that they don't have him with Seattle. But the computer generated "airbrushing" they use these days is quite a far sight better than the old manual on-the-negative painting. They can make that minor league picture work, I'm guessing.

On BobW's blog, he has made a sheet of '69 Pilots cards. I can't blow this up, but I can at least illuminate it...

[UKBaseballfan]

I believe the image in the facepack for Buttercup Dickerson and Bill Tobin (left and second from left) are the same image, allbeit of very differing clarities. I attach 2 other images of Dickerson (right and second from right) which seem to indicate that it is more likely that the duplicate image is of Bill Tobin as the Dickerson facepack image appears to vary significantly from the 2 other Dickerson images.

[Cusick]

UK, I agree with you that the player at the far left of the four you present is Bill Tobin, not Buttercup Dickerson. I believe that your photo of Dickerson at the far right came from the team photo of the 1883 Pittsburgh Alleghanys. One version of that photo appears on p. 49 of THE BEER AND WHISKY LEAGUE,
by David Nemec.

Buttercup also appeared in a Troy uniform. Attached below on the left is a photo of the 1800 Troy team. Please excuse the quality, but I don't have anything better showing the entire team.

Top row (L to R): Bill Tobin, Tim Keefe, Ed Cogswell, Ed Caskin
Middle row (L to R): John Cassidy, William Holbert, Robert Ferguson (Mgr.), Pat Gillespie, Mickey Welch
Bottom row (L to R): Buttercup Dickerson, Jake Evans

A clearer view of Buttercup Dickerson from the same team photo is shown on the right. This view came from the website TheDeadballEra.com :: THE DEADBALL ERA: INDEX

Buttercup looks very different in the two photos from 1880 and 1883. Could there be a misidentification? Certainly. Errors have been found previously among the photos in THE BEER AND WHISKY LEAGUE and I don't know how reliable the original ID's for the Troy team photos were. But these are the only two Dickerson photos with which I'm familiar.

[cheech411]

[Jabez54]

May he remain free of temptations that has fallen many great talents of the 21st century ... I would never thought Boston would be able to sign him...

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by tnfoto

Pretty sure he's talking about Clank, Curt Blefary, who died in 2001.

No, no, Blefary was a Yankee, never a Met. (He does go on the "dead Ball Four cast members" pile, though, as he was an Astro when Bouton got there.) "Clink" was Clendenon; I guess the nickname didn't come until he arrived in NY, which is why Buccos didn't know of it.

From Mets Merized Online's tribute to Donn: Heroes of '69: Donn Clendenon, the Final Piece of the Puzzle

The Mets had the pitching. The Mets had the defense. Now the Mets had the power. He came to be known as “Clink” or “Big Clink.” Standing at 6-4 and 205 pounds, the big 1B with the big glove and bigger bat led the Mets down the stretch.

They don't give the etymology of the nickname but I'd guess it was either about Donn being the "missing link" the Mets needed (before the trade, Gil Hodges had tried a convoluted platoon where Kranepool would play 1B against righties with Cleon Jones in LF, but against lefties, Cleon would come in and play 1B with Ron Swoboda in LF; after Art Shamsky got healthy and Rod Gaspar played himself out of the RF job, Gil sent Art and Rocky to RF and Cleon to LF, full-time, but now he needed a RH 1B) and "link" and "Big C" or whatever they called Donn based on his surname evolved into "Clink"…or it was about Clendenon saying that playing in Montreal (where he'd been held captive to avoid having to reunite with Harry Walker in Houston) was like being in jail, "the clink".

Or maybe it was something else. But I don't think it was an onomatopoetic knock on Donn's fielding, the way "Clank" was for Blefary (whose preferred nickname was "Buff", as in "Big Buffalo"). The Astros used to slap his hand and go "give me some steel, baby". Clendenon was good with the glove.

[FatJack]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

"Clink" was Clendenon; I guess the nickname didn't come until he arrived in NY, which is why Buccos didn't know of it.

They don't give the etymology of the nickname but I'd guess it was either about Donn being the "missing link" the Mets needed (before the trade, Gil Hodges had tried a convoluted platoon where Kranepool would play 1B against righties with Cleon Jones in LF, but against lefties, Cleon would come in and play 1B with Ron Swoboda in LF; after Art Shamsky got healthy and Rod Gaspar played himself out of the RF job, Gil sent Art and Rocky to RF and Cleon to LF, full-time, but now he needed a RH 1B) and "link" and "Big C" or whatever they called Donn based on his surname evolved into "Clink"…or it was about Clendenon saying that playing in Montreal (where he'd been held captive to avoid having to reunite with Harry Walker in Houston) was like being in jail, "the clink".

Or maybe it was something else. But I don't think it was an onomatopoetic knock on Donn's fielding, the way "Clank" was for Blefary (whose preferred nickname was "Buff", as in "Big Buffalo"). The Astros used to slap his hand and go "give me some steel, baby". Clendenon was good with the glove.

Gotta be honest. I've been a Mets fan all my life and never once heard him called "Clink". Mostly, it was "Big Donn". Occasionally, "Big Train". Never heard "Clink".

That said, its legit. And it preceded his time with the Mets as here is a headline from April 16, 1969 when Donn was still with the Expos.

Clink Reports Tomorrow

Supposedly, the nickname was given him by Pirates announcer Bob Prince, who was sort of the Chris Berman of his day--everybody had to have a nickname ("and here comes Bob Beetles Bailey to the plate..."). How he came up with it, I couldn't tell you.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

From Mets Merized Online's tribute to Donn: Heroes of '69: Donn Clendenon, the Final Piece of the Puzzle

Learned something new today.

[simarc]

Originally Posted by rico43

On BobW's blog, he has made a sheet of '69 Pilots cards. I can't blow this up, but I can at least illuminate it...

Attachment 385126

I did a full team set for the Pilots and posted it on another game board, so I won't include the link here. Here is the updated one I did from Williams off a photo that I colorized.

[UKBaseballfan]

Thanks for the confirmation in respect of Bill Tobin.

I query the identifications on the 1880 Troy photo. I would suggest the following below.



Bill Tobin, Ed Caskin, Jake Evans, Tim Keefe
John Cassidy, Bill Holbert, Bob Ferguson, Pete Gillespie, Roger Connor
Mickey Welch, Buttercup Dickerson

Originally Posted by Cusick

UK, I agree with you that the player at the far left of the four you present is Bill Tobin, not Buttercup Dickerson. I believe that your photo of Dickerson at the far right came from the team photo of the 1883 Pittsburgh Alleghanys. One version of that photo appears on p. 49 of THE BEER AND WHISKY LEAGUE,
by David Nemec.

Buttercup also appeared in a Troy uniform. Attached below on the left is a photo of the 1800 Troy team. Please excuse the quality, but I don't have anything better showing the entire team.

Top row (L to R): Bill Tobin, Tim Keefe, Ed Cogswell, Ed Caskin
Middle row (L to R): John Cassidy, William Holbert, Robert Ferguson (Mgr.), Pat Gillespie, Mickey Welch
Bottom row (L to R): Buttercup Dickerson, Jake Evans

A clearer view of Buttercup Dickerson from the same team photo is shown on the right. This view came from the website TheDeadballEra.com :: THE DEADBALL ERA: INDEX

Buttercup looks very different in the two photos from 1880 and 1883. Could there be a misidentification? Certainly. Errors have been found previously among the photos in THE BEER AND WHISKY LEAGUE and I don't know how reliable the original ID's for the Troy team photos were. But these are the only two Dickerson photos with which I'm familiar.

[FatJack]

Minnesota and Seattle

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by FatJack

Gotta be honest. I've been a Mets fan all my life and never once heard him called "Clink". Mostly, it was "Big Donn". Occasionally, "Big Train". Never heard "Clink".

Supposedly, the nickname was given him by Pirates announcer Bob Prince, who was sort of the Chris Berman of his day--everybody had to have a nickname ("and here comes Bob Beetles Bailey to the plate..."). How he came up with it, I couldn't tell you.

Heh, I never heard "Big Train". Maybe "Clink" worked for the younger set (I think I'm younger than you) because "Clendenon" was a lot of name. Clink and Kooz and Rocky and Bud.

And the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette says don't blame the Gunner, blame the Pirates players:

The Bucs were ahead by 2-1 when "Clink"—as his teammates call him—banged a two-bagger which drove home a run and set up a six run third inning.

Of course, the P-G could have it wrong, but still. But however the nickname developed in Pittsburgh, it was used by Donn's Mets teammates, as Jim McAndrew (here being interviewed by Stanley Cohen in A Magic Summer: the Amazin' Story of the 1969 Mets) says:

We had our leaders—Seaver and Clendenon, I guess, were the most vocal. Donn kept you loose. He was a veteran who had his head screwed on straight and he kept things in perspective. 'Clink' could sling it and he could take it, too.

If it's good enough for McAndrew, it's good enough for me.

[Amazin69]

We all know Burleson from his time with the Red Sox and Angels, but I'd frankly forgotten that he spent his last half-season (1987) as an Oriole. The only card he was on that year was a Donruss "Opening Day" set, issued after the season started, but Topps did take some shots of him in camp, it appears.



Yep, it's the Rooster's final sunrise. Cock-a-doodle-done!

[Cusick]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

Thanks for the confirmation in respect of Bill Tobin.

I query the identifications on the 1880 Troy photo. I would suggest the following below.



Bill Tobin, Ed Caskin, Jake Evans, Tim Keefe
John Cassidy, Bill Holbert, Bob Ferguson, Pete Gillespie, Roger Connor
Mickey Welch, Buttercup Dickerson

UK, Thank you for posting these corrections. I erred big time in simply posting the names as provided to me by the source who gave me the photo years ago. I did not do the photo comparisons to see if the identifications were correct. I have now at least done the photo comparisons for those names where your identifications differed from those I posted.

Top row: You switched Tim Keefe and Ed Caskin. I agree that the switch in names makes them look more like the actual players. Furthermore, Caskin was 5'9.5" and Keefe was 5'10.5", so that height alignment also makes sense. You also inserted Jake Evans' name between them. I agree that the player between them looks like Jake rather than Ed Cogswell. Jake was 5'8".

Middle row: Small height differences are more difficult to distinguish when people are seated, but the fellow at the far right was clearly a tall man. Roger Connor was 6'3" whereas Mickey Welch was 5'8". All the photos I've seen of Roger show him with a mustache. All the photos I've seen of Mickey portray him as clean shaven. That's clearly Roger. The naming of Pat Gillespie was simply a mistake. There was no such name on the team. It had to be Pete Gillespie.

Bottom row: This brings us to Buttercup. This change was the most difficult for me to accept, because I had found the deadballera.com website a reliable place for photos in the past. But it's hard to imagine that the Troy team photo wouldn't have contained Mickey Welch, and the player on the left certainly looks like clean-shaven Mickey. We've already established that the player on the right wasn't Jake Evans, because he was in the top row. I agree that he looks like your two photos of Buttercup. Yesterday, I didn't know where your sepia-tone photo of Buttercup came from. I've found one version of it on the website of the Eastern Shore Baseball HOF. I have to presume that they identified it correctly.

So we don't have any disagreement here. Thank you again for your efforts.

[UKBaseballfan]

The more I scrutinise the image the more I'm not convinced about the identifications in respect of Cassidy and Holbert.

Cassidy is listed at 168 and Holbert at 197. Cassidy is only 5'8". I am concluding that Holbert is seated far left and Cassidy next to him. That is the identifications should be reversed.

Originally Posted by Cusick

UK, Thank you for posting these corrections. I erred big time in simply posting the names as provided to me by the source who gave me the photo years ago. I did not do the photo comparisons to see if the identifications were correct. I have now at least done the photo comparisons for those names where your identifications differed from those I posted.

Top row: You switched Tim Keefe and Ed Caskin. I agree that the switch in names makes them look more like the actual players. Furthermore, Caskin was 5'9.5" and Keefe was 5'10.5", so that height alignment also makes sense. You also inserted Jake Evans' name between them. I agree that the player between them looks like Jake rather than Ed Cogswell. Jake was 5'8".

Middle row: Small height differences are more difficult to distinguish when people are seated, but the fellow at the far right was clearly a tall man. Roger Connor was 6'3" whereas Mickey Welch was 5'8". All the photos I've seen of Roger show him with a mustache. All the photos I've seen of Mickey portray him as clean shaven. That's clearly Roger. The naming of Pat Gillespie was simply a mistake. There was no such name on the team. It had to be Pete Gillespie.

Bottom row: This brings us to Buttercup. This change was the most difficult for me to accept, because I had found the deadballera.com website a reliable place for photos in the past. But it's hard to imagine that the Troy team photo wouldn't have contained Mickey Welch, and the player on the left certainly looks like clean-shaven Mickey. We've already established that the player on the right wasn't Jake Evans, because he was in the top row. I agree that he looks like your two photos of Buttercup. Yesterday, I didn't know where your sepia-tone photo of Buttercup came from. I've found one version of it on the website of the Eastern Shore Baseball HOF. I have to presume that they identified it correctly.

So we don't have any disagreement here. Thank you again for your efforts.

[DeweyintheHall]

TV released another batch today, and among them is, I believe, Steve Burke....long thought to exist only in his grainy 1978 Topps rookie card as an M, or on minor league cards:

[keonleafs]

Long before Finley bought those White Kangaroo spikes for his A's, the Amazin' Mets had their legendary catcher in White sandals (we call them "gougounes" over here)!! From Topps Vault.