Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[Merkle923]

None known. Neither Topps nor Brace had him with Pittsburgh.

Best is a Columbus Jets image from '66 from The Sporting News.

[tnfoto]

Bmarlowe points out that the Chappy_Lane image in the Facepack and on Lane's B-R.com page actually pictures Trick McSorley. Here is a corrected photo showing Lane with the 1883 Toledo Blue Stockings.

Thanks to Bmarlowe for noticing the error!

[rico43]

With the enthusiasm of the Topps Vault releases somehow diminished (at least temporarily), this wonderful board has hit a lull, it seems to me. An idea of last week has some merit, so in the hopes of building some goodwill, I volunteer to compile the White Whale (or those images akin to them) for a central clearinghouse of the missing images.

The bigger problem as I saw, reading through the posts lask week, is the definition of a white whale. and the degrees of actual scarcity. What I think is reasonable is to have more than one level of scarcity. What I want to do is receive each person's list OFFLINE and a chance to compile more than one degree of difficulty.

My concerns: time parameters. Topps' archives seem to go back to its beginnings, so I think that we need to divide the lists into decades. Then theres the tricky definition of what is and isn't "white whale" material. So here are my definitions, as applied to this project:

True unicorn: no known image of a given player with a given team, period.
White whale: Images have been known or believed to exist, but have yet to be located (an ongoing quest, as it were)
TV: For those who need only a Topps Vault image
Color: self-explanatory, replacing those that have never been in TRUE color (Wenty Ford, etc.)
ALSO
If you have TV images that require ID, we should have a new, current thread to turn the face cops loose on an image, much like you guys did for me on the Ric Wilson/Mariners image last week.

Whether or not you agree exactly on these definitions, for our purposes one definition needs to be accepted. Send me your current lists, categorized as above, as a private message and I will post the final results here within a week.

[BklynJace]

Originally Posted by rico43

With the enthusiasm of the Topps Vault releases somehow diminished (at least temporarily), this wonderful board has hit a lull, it seems to me. An idea of last week has some merit, so in the hopes of building some goodwill, I volunteer to compile the White Whale (or those images akin to them) for a central clearinghouse of the missing images.

The bigger problem as I saw, reading through the posts lask week, is the definition of a white whale. and the degrees of actual scarcity. What I think is reasonable is to have more than one level of scarcity. What I want to do is receive each person's list OFFLINE and a chance to compile more than one degree of difficulty.

My concerns: time parameters. Topps' archives seem to go back to its beginnings, so I think that we need to divide the lists into decades. Then theres the tricky definition of what is and isn't "white whale" material. So here are my definitions, as applied to this project:

True unicorn: no known image of a given player with a given team, period.
White whale: Images have been known or believed to exist, but have yet to be located (an ongoing quest, as it were)
TV: For those who need only a Topps Vault image
Color: self-explanatory, replacing those that have never been in TRUE color (Wenty Ford, etc.)
ALSO
If you have TV images that require ID, we should have a new, current thread to turn the face cops loose on an image, much like you guys did for me on the Ric Wilson/Mariners image last week.

Whether or not you agree exactly on these definitions, for our purposes one definition needs to be accepted. Send me your current lists, categorized as above, as a private message and I will post the final results here within a week.

This is a great idea. And bless you for taking the lead on it.

A suggestion that might or might not be helpful: Would it make sense to provide an example list formatted the way you want it? Thinking that would save you some time collating etc.

Thanks again!

[rico43]

One man's whale is another's unicorn, obviously, but if someone lists a need in one category, then that's where I'll put them. The list will be by category, by decades, in order by seasons.
Just want folks to be double dang sure the sought-after image hasn't appeared here or elsewhere. Merkle mentioned a couple that belonged to "litiginous" owners; we discuss how to reach out to those people and find out if they will share and why or why not. If it's for sale, we need to see the image first, right?
On that subject, is there anything resembling a good list of the McCarthy images that were sold to the Hall of Fame?

[rico43]

Before we go too far down the above road, would like to ask if there are any good color images (not just TV) of Marty Pattin with the Angels in 1968? Seen an airbrushed headshot, but hard to believe that Topps shot so many obscure Angels over the years and missed him.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by rico43

Before we go too far down the above road, would like to ask if there are any good color images (not just TV) of Marty Pattin with the Angels in 1968? Seen an airbrushed headshot, but hard to believe that Topps shot so many obscure Angels over the years and missed him.

I'd say this one that Merkle posted a couple of years ago is pretty good. Other than that I only have a clip-out from the Angels team photo.

[rico43]

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the quick reply. I hope we can all do such diligent awareness if we move forward to seek out the unicorns/whales that actually are out there.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by rico43

With the enthusiasm of the Topps Vault releases somehow diminished (at least temporarily), this wonderful board has hit a lull, it seems to me. An idea of last week has some merit, so in the hopes of building some goodwill, I volunteer to compile the White Whale (or those images akin to them) for a central clearinghouse of the missing images.

The bigger problem as I saw, reading through the posts lask week, is the definition of a white whale. and the degrees of actual scarcity. What I think is reasonable is to have more than one level of scarcity. What I want to do is receive each person's list OFFLINE and a chance to compile more than one degree of difficulty.

My concerns: time parameters. Topps' archives seem to go back to its beginnings, so I think that we need to divide the lists into decades. Then theres the tricky definition of what is and isn't "white whale" material. So here are my definitions, as applied to this project:

True unicorn: no known image of a given player with a given team, period.
White whale: Images have been known or believed to exist, but have yet to be located (an ongoing quest, as it were)
TV: For those who need only a Topps Vault image
Color: self-explanatory, replacing those that have never been in TRUE color (Wenty Ford, etc.)
ALSO
If you have TV images that require ID, we should have a new, current thread to turn the face cops loose on an image, much like you guys did for me on the Ric Wilson/Mariners image last week.

Whether or not you agree exactly on these definitions, for our purposes one definition needs to be accepted. Send me your current lists, categorized as above, as a private message and I will post the final results here within a week.

A wonderful proposal that I cherish, thank you! It is a project that embodies the original communal spirit of this thread and complies with its philosophy and objectives, which sadly in my opinion has become increasingly rare. You certainly have achieved your hopes for goodwill in the eyes of this reader.

Apologies for being somewhat pedantic but I would like to contribute significantly towards your project and seek clarification in terms of its scope in at least two areas.

Firstly you use the word team as in given team in your unicorn definition. I seek clarification in terms of how you intend to use the phrase given team and I list 5 possible alternatives.

1. As in franchise so the St. Louis Browns and Baltimore Orioles would constitute the same team.

2. As in team nickname so a differentiation would arise in the case for example of the Houston Colt 45s and Houston Astros being different teams.

3. As in team name location so a differentiation would arise in the case for example of the Los Angeles Angels and California Angels as being different teams.

4. As in team uniform design so a differentiation would arise in the case for example of the 1959 Kansas City Athletics and 1960 Kansas City Athletics as being different teams.

5. As on a yearly basis so each team would differ from the previous year's team on an annual basis.

The second area that I seek clarification on in terms of the scope of your project is in respect of color. We are all aware that there was period when color imagery was not prevalent and we are therefore dependant on colorizations. In the colorpack project it is my objective to prioritize colorizations to avoid duplication. The method I used was to start with Hall of Famers then move onto starters. Would your project embrace color imagery for the whole of MLB history ?

[Merkle923]

A reminder based on the Marty Pattin question - Topps didn't shoot major leaguers in 1968 and part of 1967.

For reference, having personally extensively examined the uncountable collection of negatives (1,000,000? 5,000,000?) which usd to fill a conference-room sized closet in downtown Manhattan, here's what/where/when they shot - so you don't sit around waiting for shots that are never going to appear:

1950-1955: no photography (publicity photos used)
1956-1957: full time photographer at three NYC parks
1958: photography at Yankee Stadium, Chicago parks, Philadelphia, LA, SF, use of Don Wingfield's services in DC
1959: as above but adding limited spring training photography
1960-1961: as above but more comprehensive spring training work
1962-1966: full time photographer at NYC parks, SF, spring training, with limited shooting in other cities
1967: intermittent photography as new Players Association insists on union-wide deal and posing boycott grows to the point that perhaps less than 50 players are photographed after June 1
1968: no major league photography; free lancers shoot International and Pacific Coast League teams extensively and images of players who "must" be included in early series of 1969 cards are purchased from established photographers like George Brace in Chicago, J.D. McCarthy in Detroit (who made the Aurelio Rodriguez/Batboy mistake), and Louis Requena in New York (the Reggie Jackson rookie image)
1969-roughly 1995: comprehensive photography by staffers in New York (Mickey Palmer) and Bay Area (Doug McWilliams) parks and spring training, occasionally elsewhere
1996-Present: some staff photography, especially in spring training photo day sessions - remainder, game action and free lance

[rico43]

I will be quick to concede that I am NOT an expert as to which uniforms became in use for every team during the Topps photo vault era (which thanks to Merkle's post we'll call 1956-date), I can speak intelligently on the Atlanta Braves and the fact that some custom card makers have made cards in formats from 1962-67 with the 1969 MLB Centennial patch all too apparent on a sleeve or vest.
The year is our guideline; granted, we might not be able to pinpoint exact years , but anything from the differences in uniforms to the background of a photo will contribute to pinning that year down.
As to changes in uniforms, that is part of what you are requesting, and so those are details you are providing., The list may require some trial-and-error adjusting, and I know as soon as its posted, we will have some of these images appear (or be linked) and it will change just that fast.
All suggestions will be considered, if not incorporated, as we move forward in what will be a work in progress for some time.

[Terry D]

Until Topps digs deeper into the vault, there aren't any color pictures of Mark Lee in a Pirates uniform. I have tried to fill the gap by colorizing a small black & white action photo. It's the first colorization I've done and it IS small, but maybe it will help somebody.

[FatJack]

A couple of nice Twitchells in the latest Vault release.

[rrb77]

1901 Philadelphia A's

[cheech411]

[Terry D]

The new GQ Topps Vault download has quite a few guys from the 80's, including a couple of rarities. Here, for example, is Jose Uribe as a Cardinal, presumably from 1984 when he was playing under the name of Jose Gonzalez.

[Terry D]

Bob Tufts is an interesting, intelligent, and outspoken guy. A member of an old New England family, Bob is related to the actor Sonny Tufts. Bob converted to conservative Judaism and is very active in his faith. His major league baseball career consisted of a couple of seasons as the tenth or eleventh man on the staff in San Francisco and Kansas City. He made it on to a Topps 1982 Future Stars card, but here are two full size Topps Vault shots taken at the same time. I am still waiting for a color shot of him with the '82 or '83 Royals.

[Merkle923]

Didn't know this was any kind of fish, let alone a whale. Took this one myself at the end of the 1980 season. Sorry the pose is so unimaginative.

[Terry D]

Thanks a lot Merkle, another 80's gap is filled!

[brobby05]

Hi,


Does anybody have the original Topps vault for this 1971 Bob Locker card???


Thanks,


Brobby05