Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[rico43]

These single images were back to back in that long-lost thread between Tom Matchick and Milt May. Again, thanks, but I know ID'ing these threads benefits us all.

[Cusick]

Originally Posted by DeweyintheHall

Thanks - which issue was this in?

The Sporting News, February 25, 1978, on page 44. This refers to the listing of the Milwaukee Brewers' non-roster players.

[DeweyintheHall]

I've been staring at the Cubs' left hander for some time - I'm positive I recognize him. After digging, the only possibility I can come up with Dan McGinn, who was acquired on April 7, 1972, and who may have been in camp in 1973. In 1973 they appear to have debuted new road grays, but in camp they would probably have worn the previous years' models. Anyway here are a couple other McGinns for comparison - possibly?

[KenRaffensberger16]

Cleveland Indians LHP Bruce Chen announced his retirement yesterday one month before his 38th birthday. He went 82-81, with a 4.62 ERA.. for 11 MLB teams in 17 seasons (1998-2007 and 2009-2015).
He played with (In chronological order): Atlanta, Philadelphia, NY Mets, Montreal, Cincinnati, Houston, Boston, Baltimore (where he had his career-high 13 wins in 2005), Texas, Kansas City (where spent 6 seasons through 2014 - his longest stint with any team by a large margin) and Cleveland (2015: going just 0-1 in 2 games before retiring.)

Can our members find photos of him in all 11 team uniforms?

Noteworthy: Chen was born and raised in Panama City, Panama. It is believed that Chen's family were imported to Panama from China to work as laborers on the Panama Canal sometime around 1910. After work on the canal was completed they remained there and settled in Panama.

[Merkle923]

Everything turns up eventually - his publicity photo (obviously a photo of the photo, cropping the logo) from his short-lived comeback with the 1969 Angels, up on eBay from seller pjopblue:

[Merkle923]

The Dodger RH pitcher above is career minor leaguer Mike Mathwig.

The Cub LH is certainly not Dan McGinn nor from 1973. It's another career minor leaguer, Ron Matney. The photo is from 1970; the Cubs had switched to double-knit uniforms in 1972.

Two other keys in making a list of old Topps Vault image identifications are: a) they are uploaded without consideration to whether or not a player ever reached the majors so don't get trapped into assuming this "has to be" somebody from a big league club, and b) virtually all of them have been sold (and thus identified) on eBay - the Matney and Mathwig negatives included.

You can easily pick up the last few months of these on eBay. Search "Topps Negative (team name)" and then click "completed listings" on the left hand menu. They aren't there forever -- only the last three months' worth -- but right now that would still mean the last 54 Dodger images Topps sold are still sitting there with ID's.

A much better starting point for re-identifying players you didn't note the first time or can't re-locate is Baseball Reference's alphabetical list of minor leaguers - since that list includes both guys who made the majors and those who didn't. Player lists are accessed through "Bingo Boards" -- everybody with last names beginning with "MA," then next to that "MC," "ME," etc. -- so if you are looking for two obscure pitchers who seem to begin with "MA" you click on that and they are all there. The main lists under each set of letters gives you the years of the player's career, so if the players seem to belong somewhere around MAT or MAV, there really aren't many to search through and click on.

[Cusick]

In trying to discern when Mathwig and Matney were with those major league teams, I found the following. The Independent (Long Beach, CA) of February 20, 1969 presented a list of Dodgers ' non-roster players who were to report to Vero Beach, Florida for spring training. Mike Mathwig was on the list. The Danville (VA) Register of March 25, 1970 reported that Ron Matney was among those being reassigned by the Cubs to their minor league camp. Since I don't have him as a spring roster player, I assume that he was a non-roster invitee to the 1970 Cubs' spring training camp.

[Merkle923]

Topps also isn't always wrong about the years of their images. In Bill Haber's years as Sports Director, each shoot went into a half-envelope with Haber's distinctive block lettering marking year and name. Haber - one of the great early card collectors and researchers who we lost far too young - was obsessive about precluding ID mistakes in terms of player AND year.

Matney would've read "RON MATNEY '70." I recall Mathwig was ID'd as a 1969 negative on eBay and Matney a 1970.

Plus as noted in the minor league threat during the group hunt to identify a Dodger minor leaguer named Walt Adey, each year the Topps spring training shoots were limited to one team on one day (with a few rare exceptions). The Dodgers of '66 were all in road "Los Angeles" shirts with not-so-green grass behind them; the '67 were all in home whites on a very sunny day, the 1969's are in the road "Los Angeles" script, etc.

[ThatSeventiesGuy]

Originally Posted by KenRaffensberger16

Cleveland Indians LHP Bruce Chen announced his retirement yesterday one month before his 38th birthday. He went 82-81, with a 4.62 ERA.. for 11 MLB teams in 17 seasons (1998-2007 and 2009-2015).
He played with (In chronological order): Atlanta, Philadelphia, NY Mets, Montreal, Cincinnati, Houston, Boston, Baltimore (where he had his career-high 13 wins in 2005), Texas, Kansas City (where spent 6 seasons through 2014 - his longest stint with any team by a large margin) and Cleveland (2015: going just 0-1 in 2 games before retiring.)

Can our members find photos of him in all 11 team uniforms?

Noteworthy: Chen was born and raised in Panama City, Panama. It is believed that Chen's family were imported to Panama from China to work as laborers on the Panama Canal sometime around 1910. After work on the canal was completed they remained there and settled in Panama.

I decided to Google image search Chen on all his teams, just to see what I could find. Astros and Rangers seem to be the toughest, especially Astros...only one small blurry head shot there. The rest were pretty plentiful. Sorry to see him go...he was one of those lefty journeyman types you think will stick around forever.

[KenRaffensberger16]

Bruce Chen, who announced his retirement yesterday (see post section 25287 on this page),
as he appeared on a 2000 Fleer Tradition update card. Chen was a Phillie in 2000 & 2001.

[DeweyintheHall]

Just when I think I understand things....
I check on TV releases by going to this site, which someone on this forum kindly directed me to some months ago:

Index of /images/13076

I've noticed that they occasionally will back-fill earlier releases (for example, they've gone back and added a bunch to the GC series lately even though the most current release is the JG series).

Also, I visited Baseball Birthdays and noticed a host of TV series which do not appear on the auction helper website.

What is there an authoritative source for each series thus far released, and is there a way to tell when they release images into previous series without having to go back and check older series randomly to check for additions? Sorry for the questions, but it seems I still have a lot to learn.

Also, now that some very dedicated people have begun the complete ID project, the next step would seem to be to create an index for the ID'd images. If no one has started this yet, I'm thinking I might want to give it a crack.

[Cusick]

When Merkle posted the lists of 1960's non-roster invitees a few months ago, there was one year omitted -- 1961. Now, thanks to a fellow SABR member who scanned his hard copy of the relevant Sporting News page, the 1961 non-roster invitees list can be posted. This comes from the February 22, 1961 issue of TSN, page 7.

[Cusick]

Continuing with 1961....

[Merkle923]

You don't see a lot of him - Topps Vault, more likely 1977 than 1976.

[Merkle923]

Tragically short-lived pitcher, in spring training before his final season, 1980

[Cusick]

Prior to obtaining the Sporting News list of the 1961 NRI's, I had been trying to create my own list through newspaper research. The following players were cited in various newspaper accounts as being 1961 NRI's, but were not on the Sporting News list:

St. Louis Cardinals -- Art Kay

Cleveland Indians -- Julius Grant

New York Yankees -- Pedro Gonzalez, Jack Reed, Jim Bouton, Jack Cullen, Norman Forsythe, Raymond Geiser, Howard Kitt, Lou Konyha, Charles Payne, Bernard Leonard, Dick Berardino, Don Lock, Charles Boone

Update: Removed Vickery, Gregory, Richert & Kalmes, who were not additions, but already listed on the TSN non-roster invitee lists.

[Merkle923]

Ok, I'm confused. The 1961 NYY NRI list is appreciated but Kalmes and Richert (LA) and Gregory and Vickery (StL) are on the TSN list and Art Kay, on your St. Louis list, is on TSN's Baltimore list and was in Baltimore camp long enough to be photographed that March by the Baltimore Sun.

[Cusick]

Originally Posted by Merkle923

Ok, I'm confused. The 1961 NYY NRI list is appreciated but Kalmes and Richert (LA) and Gregory and Vickery (StL) are on the TSN list and Art Kay, on your St. Louis list, is on TSN's Baltimore list and was in Baltimore camp long enough to be photographed that March by the Baltimore Sun.

Regarding Kalmes, Richert, Gregory, and Vickery, I simply made mistakes when I compared the list I created from newspaper accounts with the TSN list. Didn't see that they were on both lists. My bad.

Art Kay apparently did not make it to the Baltimore camp, but he was in the St. Louis camp during the 1961 spring training season. The TSN list which placed him with Baltimore was issued on February 22, as previously stated. See below left for a TSN reference to him with the Cardinals: See below right for a Baltimore Sun reference of February 25 to a change of plans about bringing him to the Baltimore camp.

[DeweyintheHall]

Somebody was looking for images of Rick Kreuger as an Indian and Tom Spencer as a White Sox. Here they are- I no longer have the raw photos, just these creations, which are part of my on-going 1978 project. Believe I found each on e-Bay some time ago.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by DeweyintheHall

Somebody was looking for images of Rick Kreuger as an Indian and Tom Spencer as a White Sox. Here they are- I no longer have the raw photos, just these creations, which are part of my on-going 1978 project. Believe I found each on e-Bay some time ago.

Here is a larger version of the Spencer image.