Stats Only

[marc5477]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

It shouldn't. It does not work unless you have foreknowledge of who the good players are going to be. In a fictional stats only league, it's impossible to do.

The entire point to the process is that you don't have foreknowledge. That's why it works and why all stats is too easy without giving the AI a huge advantage somehow... actually instead of going back and forth about who is right or not let me just show you what happened to my all stats league.

Give me a minute to load it.

..okay here is what happened.



As you can see, its way too easy. I even won the 1st season which never happens with me. This league was fictional with historic rookies but no recalc for the rookies so anything could happen with them. All the great historic rookies were taken by the 5th pick so I never got any of them but I did get all the impossible picks by year 3 or 4. As you can see from the record, by 1920 the game was pointless and it just snowballed out of control.

But the above does not tell the real story. The real story is in the minor leagues. If you look at my farm you would laugh. The AAA, AA, A, and S-A teams get 1st place around 75% of the time since 1917 and 2nd place around 20% of the time. I always ended up with the expensive draft picks that no one else wanted due to price. Note I do not manage any of the minor leagues except for player promotions and demotions and still they won that much.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by marc5477

The entire point to the process is that you don't have foreknowledge. That's why it works and why all stats is too easy without giving the AI a huge advantage somehow... actually instead of going back and forth about who is right or not let me just show you what happened to my all stats league.

Give me a minute to load it.

..okay here is what happened.



As you can see, its way too easy. I even won the 1st season which never happens with me. This league was fictional with historic rookies but no recalc for the rookies so anything could happen with them. All the great historic rookies were taken by the 5th pick so I never got any of them but I did get all the impossible picks by year 3 or 4. As you can see from the record, by 1920 the game was pointless and it just snowballed out of control.

But the above does not tell the real story. The real story is in the minor leagues. If you look at my farm you would laugh. The AAA, AA, A, and S-A teams get 1st place around 75% of the time since 1917 and 2nd place around 20% of the time. I always ended up with the expensive draft picks that no one else wanted due to price. Note I do not manage any of the minor leagues except for player promotions and demotions and still they won that much.

Recalc is not available when playing fictional.

[marc5477]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Recalc is not available when playing fictional.

Good catch. Youre right there is no recalc on that league. It only had import historic rookies which gave the AI a slight boost since they drafted them early in the 1st rounds.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by marc5477

Good catch. Youre right there is no recalc on that league. It only had import historic rookies which gave the AI a slight boost since they drafted them early in the 1st rounds.

I think the point The Wolf is making is that even with recalc off, you know which players are likely to be studs/productive due to name recognition and history. Would your system work if you were playing 100% fictional?

[marc5477]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I think the point The Wolf is making is that even with recalc off, you know which players are likely to be studs/productive due to name recognition and history. Would your system work if you were playing 100% fictional?

I think he is just being condescending but Im trying to stay civil and back it up with real facts. Obviously Im aware and dont use that exploit. In this case, it makes absolutely no difference because you cant get the "named" players to begin with. The AI drafts them at the top of the 1st round. Since I am always finishing near or at the top, I always have the last 1st round pick thus I never have access to these players until years into their career once they are already expensive, if they are released at all. Further, since there is no recalc, there is no reliability to their stats so treating them different than anyone else once they are veterans is unwise. They are just there for aesthetics because I am a fan.

Further, because of my farm, there is no place on the team for free agents. I always have so many great players in the minors that hiring FA's is counterproductive unless I want to lose prospect, which happened frequently. I cant count the number of good to very good players I have lost to rule 5. I just cant protect everyone.

If you look at my profit margins, you will note that I barely spend any money at all (1995 financials). The average for the league is something like $35m-$50m a year but I rarely go over $20m despite splurging on the draft. I end up with so much cash that money becomes moot. I role play "upgrading" my stadiums to use the cash but it really has no bearing on the game. I would still have $15-$30m profit every year even if I dont upgrade my stadium just from increasing ticket prices and increased market size over time.

I am not trying to discourage people from playing stats only, on the contrary, all modes are valid. What I wanted to point out is that stats only mode severely hinders the AI's ability to compete. So I offered some possible solutions to the problem. When I say the "AI cannot think one move ahead" I am referring to its inability to manage prospects, minors, contracts, and its own finances.

[The Wolf]

You plays Stats Only with fictional leagues. If you don't, your foreknowledge of player values handicaps the AI and makes it all pointless.

SO is more difficult, and it works. Anyone who says otherwise has never tried playing an SO fictional league per the instructions on the first page.

I'm out of here. I didn't want to have anything to do with this thread in the first place and got dragged into it by people sending me PMs, but the blatant lies posted here by the SO haters have sickened me to the point of nausea.

[kmoser]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I'm out of here. I didn't want to have anything to do with this thread in the first place and got dragged into it by people sending me PMs, but the blatant lies posted here by the SO haters have sickened me to the point of nausea.

Sorry to here this. I liked reading the input you gave on here, but I understand. This thread is just a debate now.

[progen]

Some of the comments have helped me out as I continue to play stats only. But most recently, has just turned into a pissin match. Did get some good info though, but now time for this posting to be closed.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You plays Stats Only with fictional leagues. If you don't, your foreknowledge of player values handicaps the AI and makes it all pointless.

SO is more difficult, and it works. Anyone who says otherwise has never tried playing an SO fictional league per the instructions on the first page.

I'm out of here. I didn't want to have anything to do with this thread in the first place and got dragged into it by people sending me PMs, but the blatant lies posted here by the SO haters have sickened me to the point of nausea.

This is laughable on so many levels. Simply stating your opinion 100 times doesn't make it true. You call people liars and haters because they don't agree with your opinion. You get physically ill when other people don't agree with your opinion. Seriously?

Play your game your way and don't criticize those that don't agree with you.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

You call people liars and haters because they don't agree with your opinion.

And don't forget discrediting anyone (such as marc5477) who enters the discussion with contradictory evidence by saying that they did something wrong which completes invalidates their results.

All of this is standard operating procedure for this particular forum member.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Orcin

And don't forget discrediting anyone (such as marc5477) who enters the discussion with contradictory evidence by saying that they did something wrong which completes invalidates their results.

All of this is standard operating procedure for this particular forum member.

Wolf's methods of interaction may need some work, but he came here and gave people a specific way to play stats only so that it would be challenging. Others have refuted his logic, then go on to state that they're not playing the way that he suggests. Now, his manner of telling people that they need to try it his way may not be the most persuasive or the most gentlemanly, but if people would listen to what he's actually saying instead of arguing with him, then they'd see there's a lot of value to his suggestions.

[marc5477]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Wolf's methods of interaction may need some work, but he came here and gave people a specific way to play stats only so that it would be challenging. Others have refuted his logic, then go on to state that they're not playing the way that he suggests. Now, his manner of telling people that they need to try it his way may not be the most persuasive or the most gentlemanly, but if people would listen to what he's actually saying instead of arguing with him, then they'd see there's a lot of value to his suggestions.

When this thread began, the author asked for experiences and suggestions. I dont think anyone has a problem with SO games but somehow it became personal. My experience was that it is too easy. My findings are that the AI does not deal with SO very well. It needs ratings to help it make better decisions with prospects. Even with ratings, it has issues with contract negotiations, and managing finances.

I would love to see the source code for this game.

[tcblcommish]

Originally Posted by marc5477

When this thread began, the author asked for experiences and suggestions. I dont think anyone has a problem with SO games but somehow it became personal. My experience was that it is too easy. My findings are that the AI does not deal with SO very well. It needs ratings to help it make better decisions with prospects. Even with ratings, it has issues with contract negotiations, and managing finances.

I would love to see the source code for this game.

Did you play it fictional or the way it was suggested? If you find it too easy playing stats only fictional, then I guess the game is not for you but didn't you only play real historical players? If you know baseball, then you know who they are and can play vs the AI fairly easy.

[Izz]

Originally Posted by marc5477

My experience was that it is too easy. My findings are that the AI does not deal with SO very well. It needs ratings to help it make better decisions with prospects.

Question from a neutral bystander: are you playing with high school & college feeder leagues?

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

Did you play it fictional or the way it was suggested? If you find it too easy playing stats only fictional, then I guess the game is not for you but didn't you only play real historical players? If you know baseball, then you know who they are and can play vs the AI fairly easy.

I agree, until the game is played exactly as the wolf suggests, the jury is considered to be still out on this one.

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by Orcin

And don't forget discrediting anyone (such as marc5477) who enters the discussion with contradictory evidence by saying that they did something wrong which completes invalidates their results.

All of this is standard operating procedure for this particular forum member.

Again, the point is moot until the game is played EXACTLY as the wolf suggests.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by canadian content

Again, the point is moot until the game is played EXACTLY as the wolf suggests.

but my point is this....he suggests playing with "scouting" enabled

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

but my point is this....he suggests playing with "scouting" enabled

Yes, so? Not sure what your point is. Wolf specifically says to set scouting accuracy to average or lower right here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3780745. That removes any advantage of having a good scout who can tell you who's good and who's not.

[Mr. Marlin]

Back OT here, does anyone know if Catchers have any impact on the pitchers perfromance? At the end of my current season I looked at the ERA of all the SP in my league that had over 100 IP and the average was 4.25. I eliminated the highest and lowest 10% that that brought it down to 3.98.

Then I looked at all the catchers who had over 400 PA (meaning it was more likely than not they caught most of each game they played) and their average CERA was 4.87. Once again I eliminated the highest and lowest 10% and that brought it down to 4.39.

That is a pretty big difference. If catching impacted pitching (as it does in real life) you'd think they would be a bit closer. Or am I thinking of this wrong?

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Yes, so? Not sure what your point is. Wolf specifically says to set scouting accuracy to average or lower right here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3780745. That removes any advantage of having a good scout who can tell you who's good and who's not.

What I am saying is....if you are going to use scouting...the numbers really are just the same as the "written report" if you use either 2-8 or 20-80 scales.