Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[Amazin69]

While I was back on page 1108 for the Thomson link, above, I caught a glimpse of a post by okcochise, asking why TV has so few shots of the 1969-1970 White Sox home uniforms.

Merkle answered, with this being an excerpt thereof:

I don't see any spring training photography at all for the White Sox that would date to 1969. That was a dicey spring for Topps. Some time late in 1967, the brand new players' union asked players to stop posing for new photos until Topps would agree to a union-wide contract and more money (previously they had signed players one at a time, for $1 apiece, and paid them $125 if their photo was used). The deal resolving this wasn't struck until some time in Spring Training 1969 and it's very likely that some teams weren't photographed that spring.

If you look at the '69 Topps White Sox cards, they're almost all in the road unis, or in the old navy blue uniforms in photos that dated back as far as 1966, or in capless photos from other teams. The photo of Don Secrist on the White Sox rookie card was actually taken while he was with Indianapolis the year before, and Bill Melton's rookie card actually depicts him as a member of the 1968 Syracuse Chiefs.

As to 1970, Topps clearly did shoot at White Sox camp - there's a rookie card in a late series featuring Mickey Scott, who only joined the Sox that year. With him are Danny Lazar and Bart Johnson, and the photos were clearly all taken as part of the same shoot. And they're all wearing road uniforms. It was not uncommon in those days for teams to wear road uniforms at home in spring training.

There's also a 1971 Rich McKinney in the home [uniforms] that must've been taken in Sarasota in the spring of 1970 (the card was in a series that was on the shelves before Spring Training 1971 even began), so there might be a few more [home shots] out there - but it wouldn't seem that there would be many.

Topps did capture a few shots of the white/blue trim home unis of this period, although the (IMO) awesome road style (powder blue with "Chicago" in white script, outlined in deeper blue on the powder and then "White Sox" in the deep blue on the tail of the "Chicago") was far more prevalent.

For example, here's Tom McCraw, likely from 1971. (BM 388 and 389)



I don't see the 1969 Centennial patch (the Sox wore it on the left sleeve, at least on the road uniforms), so it's more likely a 1970 uniform, and with the "last year's laundry in the spring" tradition, that makes this 1971. Tom was a Senator that year, but he wasn't traded until the end of camp (March 29), so there was plenty of time for Topps to shoot him.

I also have a few 1971 spring shots from other sources:


Bill Melton

Carlos May

And it appears that Topps might have had a stringer wandering around Sarasota in the spring of 1969, after all, as this shot of Joel Horlen (pp294) catches him in the 1968 kit (note the Illinois sesquicentennial patch on the sleeve). Which makes it OT for the discussion of the pinstripe-free Don Gutteridge-era uniforms, but it's still interesting to see a shot from that era, for reasons discussed above.

[Amazin69]

Huh. The board isn't re-sizing the Melton, but it is re-sizing some of the pictures in this post, which are just as wide. Don't know what's up with that, but my apologies, anyhow.

And now, some more of the 1969-1970 uniforms:


Ken Frailing, Ozzie Blanco. Both originally from this board, so I don't know the original source.

Lee Stange (1970) and Sammy Ellis (1969), below.

[dennis_keith]

Eddie Carnett, the oldest living major leaguer, turns 100 today (10/21/16).
Carnett played for the Boston Braves (1941), Chicago White Sox (1944) and the Cleveland Indians (1945). He's pictured here with the '44 White Sox, the only team which he was a regular for. In almost 500 plate appearances that year, Carnett hit .276, with 1 HR and 60 RBI. He was a lefthanded hitting and throwing first baseman/outfielder, who also pitched in 6 major league games.

[rrb77]

a bit clearer from the Baseball Hall of Fame website

[dennis_keith]

Originally Posted by dennis_keith

Eddie Carnett, the oldest living major leaguer, turns 100 today (10/21/16).
Carnett played for the Boston Braves (1941), Chicago White Sox (1944) and the Cleveland Indians (1945). He's pictured here with the '44 White Sox, the only team which he was a regular for. In almost 500 plate appearances that year, Carnett hit .276, with 1 HR and 60 RBI. He was a lefthanded hitting and throwing first baseman/outfielder, who also pitched in 6 major league games.

Wikipedia's oldest living major leaguers list is a reflection of people living longer lives in America today.
In addition to the newest and only centegenarian on the list (Eddie Carnett turns 100 today) - there is a record total of 17 living former players who have reached age 95 (latest to reach 95 is Red Adams - pitcher of 8 games with the 1946 Chicago Cubs). Due to reach 95 soon Dave "Boo" Ferriss: 8 year major leaguer: 1945-1952.
78 living MLB players have reached age 90 (a near-record). Ozzie Van Brabrant (MLB career: 1954-1955) - is the latest to latest to reach 90 and Dick Bokelman (mlb career; 1951-1953) and 17 year major league and all-star slugger, Roy Sievers (MLB Career: 1949-1965) are due to reach 90 within the next four weeks.
A record total of 101 living major leaguers have reached age 89 with #102 Jim Greengrass (MLB career: 1952-1956) due to reach age 89 three days from now. Relief Pitcher, Bob Kelly 1951-1953 and 1958
is the last to reach 89 (10/4/16).
According to Wikipedia's official list and written comments from contributors, there is now a record total of 126 living players who have reached age 88, the most recent being Bob "Mickey" Micelotta, a shortstop on the 1954 and 1955 Philadelphia Phillies who reached the age of 88 yesterday on October 20.
The record numbers of living players for most ages from 88 on up is a specific microcosm reflecting the trend of Americans living longer lives in general.

[FatJack]

Originally Posted by dennis_keith

Wikipedia's oldest living major leaguers list is a reflection of people living longer lives in America today.
In addition to the newest and only centegenarian on the list (Eddie Carnett turns 100 today) - there is a record total of 17 living former players who have reached age 95 (latest to reach 95 is Red Adams - pitcher of 8 games with the 1946 Chicago Cubs). Due to reach 95 soon Dave "Boo" Ferriss: 8 year major leaguer: 1945-1952.
78 living MLB players have reached age 90 (a near-record). Ozzie Van Brabrant (MLB career: 1954-1955) - is the latest to latest to reach 90 and Dick Bokelman (mlb career; 1951-1953) and 17 year major league and all-star slugger, Roy Sievers (MLB Career: 1949-1965) are due to reach 90 within the next four weeks.
A record total of 101 living major leaguers have reached age 89 with #102 Jim Greengrass (MLB career: 1952-1956) due to reach age 89 three days from now. Relief Pitcher, Bob Kelly 1951-1953 and 1958
is the last to reach 89 (10/4/16).
According to Wikipedia's official list and written comments from contributors, there is now a record total of 126 living players who have reached age 88, the most recent being Bob "Mickey" Micelotta, a shortstop on the 1954 and 1955 Philadelphia Phillies who reached the age of 88 yesterday on October 20.
The record numbers of living players for most ages from 88 on up is a specific microcosm reflecting the trend of Americans living longer lives in general.

I hate discussions of lifespan as its all in how you arrive at it, what your sample groups are, etc. Rich people live far longer lives than laborers, white people live longer than people of color, women live longer than men, etc., etc. Officially, however, average expected lifespan has been on the decline for the last several years (I believe it peaked in 2012). And that, too, is a farce. Because you can't predict how long someone born in 2012 will live based on how long someone born in 1932 lived.

I look at it this way. My grandfather lived to 100, my father lived to 85, and the odds are pretty good I'll be dead before I reach 65. Can't speak for anyone else, but that sure looks like a decline in life span to me.

[custard48]

.

[dennis_keith]

Originally Posted by FatJack

I hate discussions of lifespan as its all in how you arrive at it, what your sample groups are, etc. Rich people live far longer lives than laborers, white people live longer than people of color, women live longer than men, etc., etc. Officially, however, average expected lifespan has been on the decline for the last several years (I believe it peaked in 2012). And that, too, is a farce. Because you can't predict how long someone born in 2012 will live based on how long someone born in 1932 lived.

I look at it this way. My grandfather lived to 100, my father lived to 85, and the odds are pretty good I'll be dead before I reach 65. Can't speak for anyone else, but that sure looks like a decline in life span to me.

Still, the vast majority of these guys in Wikipedia's oldest 100 players list were short-term major leaguers. who didn't have enough time in the majors to qualify for a pension. (although many received small pensions retroactively, when the standards for pension qualification were lowered). These guys never got rich from baseball and yet they are still alive, in many cases, 60 years after their major leaguer days came to an end. Even guys who were journeyman major leaguers who played 8 or 10 years in the big leagues were more famous than they were rich. What was the minimum salary 60 years ago $8,000 a year, if that. Most of the biggest stars were still only making $35,000 or $40,000 in their peak years, many quite a bit less than that.
Most of these guys didn't get rich from baseball or have a great pension to fall back on to provide them with excellent health benefits. Yet here they are in their 90s, or knocking on the door of age 90. So, I think the number of these long term survivors has increased over the eight years or so that I have been following the oldest living major leaguers list and that reflects a trend towards longer lives in the United States in general.

[DeweyintheHall]

This isn't about player images, so I will keep it short - I have been trying for a long time to identify all player movements to and from active rosters, to include trips up and down from the minors and reasons for DL trips, for the 1978 season. After going through all 1978 Sporting News issues and a pile of local newspapers from around the country, I'm still coming up short. If anyone knows of any authoritative source for this information, please let me know (you can message me if we should keep this off the main board). For people with an interest in, or knowledge of, particular teams, the information I need is limited to the A's, Expos, Mariners, Mets and Rangers. Thanks!

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

A slight improvement over the previously posted image of this brief Major Leaguer.

I'm sorry I didn't catch this sooner but the image of "Straub" comes from an incorrectly captioned 1886 Denver team photo. Ed Silch is the player pictured.

The player labeled as "Silch" in the photo may or may not be Straub. He is a missing player, so we currently have no way of verifying.

[Buster Narum]

Originally Posted by DeweyintheHall

After going through all 1978 Sporting News issues and a pile of local newspapers from around the country, I'm still coming up short. If anyone knows of any authoritative source for this information, please let me know

I used to work on the automatic transaction files for another game. One other place that's often good for disabled list info is Who's Who in Baseball. Most of the time TSN will have the same info, but not always. Good luck.

[FatJack]

Originally Posted by dennis_keith

Still, the vast majority of these guys in Wikipedia's oldest 100 players list were short-term major leaguers. who didn't have enough time in the majors to qualify for a pension. (although many received small pensions retroactively, when the standards for pension qualification were lowered). These guys never got rich from baseball and yet they are still alive, in many cases, 60 years after their major leaguer days came to an end. Even guys who were journeyman major leaguers who played 8 or 10 years in the big leagues were more famous than they were rich. What was the minimum salary 60 years ago $8,000 a year, if that. Most of the biggest stars were still only making $35,000 or $40,000 in their peak years, many quite a bit less than that.
Most of these guys didn't get rich from baseball or have a great pension to fall back on to provide them with excellent health benefits. Yet here they are in their 90s, or knocking on the door of age 90. So, I think the number of these long term survivors has increased over the eight years or so that I have been following the oldest living major leaguers list and that reflects a trend towards longer lives in the United States in general.

Let me explain the reason for my annoyance. People who are well off and never have to work for a living (not talking about ex-ballplayers here) and thus ARE living longer use junk science like life expectancy numbers as an excuse to raise the retirement age and cut Social Security benefits for the people who are not well off and working hard to earn a living who are NOT living longer. And every person who has the mind set that it is somehow empirical that people are living longer makes the work of those cutting benefits that much easier.

I call it a junk science because they extrapolate the life span of someone born today based on the life span of people born 80, 90, 100 years ago. You can't do that and reach a valid conclusion. There is virtually nothing today that is the same as it was then.

It is appropriate to say that people born in the thirties and forties had/have a longer life expectancy than people born in the teens and twenties. We have a sufficient amount of data to say that. It does not then follow that people born in the fifties and sixties will have a longer life expectancy than those born in the thirties and forties. But that is the conclusion that they draw.

The numbers can also be used (with some validity, though potentially overly broad) to compare the life expectancy of one group or demographic versus another. For example, how much would you like to bet that today's professional football players will have a shorter lifespan than today's professional baseball players? When broken down by class, it certainly appears as though the life expectancy of CEOs and politicians is growing longer while the life expectancy of the middle class has been growing shorter for much more than a decade. And poor people? I don't know the number but I'm guessing it isn't 80. So when a politician proposes raising the retirement age because "people are living longer", it is his class of people who are living longer while its those who are not who will feel the cuts.

Here's another factor not accounted for in the data. Those former players who are living well into their 80s today got regular jobs after leaving baseball. And, when they retired from those jobs, most all of them got pensions from those jobs. This is something that others fought hard for and won from the 50s through the 60s and early 70s. The question posed was "what do you do when you're too old to work and too young to die?" Before pensions, there was an epidemic in this country of elderly people dying in the streets. It doesn't require any math at all to conclude that someone with a decent pension is going to live longer than someone without. Well, the pension has gone the way of the dodo bird. They started taking them away--including from people already retired at the time--from the late 70s through the 90s. And the effect of that upon life expectancy isn't going to show up in the numbers for another decade or so.

So it is fair to say that baseball players who were born in the 30s and 40s are enjoying a longer lifespan than those who preceded them in the sport. It is NOT fair to conclude that this "is a reflection of people living longer lives in America today" and/or reflects a "trend of Americans living longer lives in general."

[rrb77]

1945 Chicago Cubs...from fedxit

[SPORTSMEM817]

Pirates 1939, 1941 and 1946 all with the Pirates and thank you for looking.

[cheech411]

[Buccos]

Sorry, redundant.

[Pinetarpress]

Always love seeing rare Kansas City Royals come across my screen from TV

Art Kusnyer played 9 games (2 separate call ups) for the 1978 Royals. He went 3-13 with 1 HR (Off of Frank Tanana on June 26th in Anaheim)

Before coming to Kansas City he had spent time with the White Sox, Angels, and Brewers earning big league time with each organization. He spent all of 1972 in the big leagues with the Angels. His only full season in the big leagues. He came to the Royals before the 1978 season spending most the season at AAA Omaha batting .234 with 5 HR and 26 RBI. He played one more season in pro baseball in 1979 with the White Sox AAA club before becoming a career baseball man serving various roles for the White Sox and A's.

[dennis_keith]

Bobby Morgan - 1954 Phillies SS-2B.

[dennis_keith]

Bobby Morgan turned 29 years old during the season this photo was taken for the 1955 Phillies yearbook. He is 90 now.

[Merkle923]

Seldom seen with his original team, the White Sox.

Tuesday's Topps Uploads (KD): 151-152 Rick Krueger; 153-154 Wayne Krenchicki; 155-156 Ed Kurpiel; 157-158 Rusty Kuntz; 159-160 Duane Kuiper; 161-162 Joe Kucharski (Orioles system); 163-164 Gil Kubski; 165-168 Mike Krukow; 169-170 Frank Kreutzer; 171-174 Art Kusnyer; 175-176 Ken Kravec; 177-178 Lew Krausse; 179-182 Jack Kralick; 183-186 Andy Kosco; 187-188 Howie Koplitz; 189-190 Mack Kuykendall (Cubs system); 191-206 recent players.