Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[Buster Narum]

More importantly, I request an apology for the use of the term "elitist." Were I am elitist I would not have posted rare and usual images that I took myself or own the copyright to, including the McCarthys and the Dexters and the discarded Daily News shots. It's an unconscionable insult.

FWIW, I agree that Merkle's contributions here are invaluable and I completely understand why he is insulted after his generosity with us.

Forgive me if I am wading into things that I shouldn't and maybe haven't the status here to say the things I'm about to say, but maybe I can do some good. Let me say first that I understand the different points of view here.

When I first came here in 2011, this thread was quite a bit stricter about its content. I even made a separate thread back then for asking for help finding photos. As FatJack pointed out, there is also a separate thread for colorizations and cards. The same goes for several other topics that are not core to this thread.

As I said in a recent post, I think we need two threads. One that is STRICTLY for posting interesting and unusual photos and for handling the Topps vault releases as well as other identification issues - and another where those of us who just enjoy the general topic of baseball photos can post comfortably without any risk of being off-topic, redundant, guilty of not researching something thoroughly enough, guessing wrong, and so on.

I really believe that two threads would relieve the tension that seems very apparent here.

[Rainmaker]

Originally Posted by keonleafs

kg017 is Larry Sheets (still reversed...), not Krenchicki,

oooooh, and kg010, Von Joshua..not Willie Davis

and kg025-026 Dave Henderson not Chambers

Wrote down 075-076 incorrectly (Morogiello of course). 077-080 is Morris.

OK, the Henderson images have been reversed also. Chambers was a lefty...

Moore was ID'd as Bobby D. Moore, (Folder GT) so my search engine did not pick him up. Now that I have made my lame excuses ....

Will someone else PLEASE post the checklist updates so I can quit making a total fool out of myself? I am not enjoying being the designated screwup here, but I waited two days and no one else had bothered posting anything. WE got 40 more images today.
For what it's worth, I have an appointment with my optometrist next week. I'll still be the guy who can't ID straight, however.

[Terry D]

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

Will someone else PLEASE post the checklist updates so I can quit making a total fool out of myself? I am not enjoying being the designated screwup here...I'll still be the guy who can't ID straight, however.

It's no big deal, people make mistakes. We have a lot of knowledgeable people on this board, somebody will get it right sooner or later. There's no reason to take all this so terribly seriously, much less kick oneself over it.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by Merkle923

...I ask: Please don't degrade this useful baseball photography site into the 5,000,000th "let me show you my card collection" place on the net.

... But the only relevance here of actual cards is the images they carry.

Originally Posted by Cusick

...In sum, my position is that baseball card postings should be OK on this thread if they are used infrequently and judiciously.

Originally Posted by dennis_keith

... I Don't agree with your point of view at all. It's elitist.

Originally Posted by Merkle923

...More importantly, I request an apology for the use of the term "elitist." Were I an elitist I would not have posted rare and usual images that I took myself or own the copyright to, including the McCarthys and the Dexters and the discarded Daily News shots. It's an unconscionable insult.

Originally Posted by Buster Narum

FWIW, I agree that Merkle's contributions here are invaluable and I completely understand why he is insulted after his generosity with us.

...As I said in a recent post, I think we need two threads. One that is STRICTLY for posting interesting and unusual photos and for handling the Topps vault releases as well as other identification issues - and another where those of us who just enjoy the general topic of baseball photos can post comfortably without any risk of being off-topic, redundant, guilty of not researching something thoroughly enough, guessing wrong, and so on.

I really believe that two threads would relieve the tension that seems very apparent here.

Originally Posted by FatJack

Not for nuthin' (please don't bite my head off), we have an existent thread called "Random Photo Colorizations And Cards". It was originally ortforshort's thread with some truly brilliant colorizations in card form, most (if not all) of which have since been removed (not to imply anything untoward). But it would seem to me that that thread title actually lends itself to, well, random photo colorizations and cards (customs, regionals...who cares). I would personally suggest that the only time a card should appear in this thread would be when someone requests a photo of an obscure player (or obscure with a given team) and such is the only image available. But that's just me. As you were.

Before I dive into this, let me apologize for my relative absence of late. Unfortunately, since early November my nearly undivided attention has been required at my clinic. I will remain likewise distracted for the foreseeable future but will continue to keep up with forum activity as much as I can. If you see something that you think deserves my attention, please feel free to message or email me in case I haven’t been able to visit the forum that day.

In addition to the threads I quoted above, over the past few weeks I have been contacted by several forum members who wanted to discuss the activity in our community—specifically in regards to this thread which, for ease of discussion in this post, I’ll call the “main thread.” As in the posts quoted above, most of the messages I received were civil but some were out of line. This forum is provided for identifying, discussing and sharing baseball player photos. Name-calling and disparagement will not be tolerated.

Concerns have been raised at several points over the nearly eight years the main thread has been active and we appear to have again reached a point where we as a group need to determine in which direction this thread will move ahead. We all have opinions and I am willing and would like to devote forum space over the next day or two to an open discussion about what I propose. Again, discussing issues and proposals is appropriate. Denigration and mocking is not.

To give some context to my proposal, I will remind everyone that this forum is in support of Out of the Park (OOTP) Baseball 18. At least in theory, if not in practice, posts outside of the Off-Topic forum should support or relate to the game. Toward that end, the main thread originated as a one-stop-shop for people who wanted to augment their gaming experience with actual images of the players depicted in the game. The primary work done in the early years of the main thread and its various precursors related to completing, to the extent possible, the Facepack (formerly the Gambo_and_TWil1 photo pack). This project extended to the filling out of Pegasus27’s Batters Pack and Pitchers Pack. The great success of this project has left in its wake what I believe to be one of the best and most comprehensive repositories of historical baseball player photos on the Internet.

A few months shy of eight years, and now just about a day short of seven million views, after its debut the primary work being done in the main thread relates to new-found images of players for whom we already have a photo. This is of necessity because the missing player list is now under 3% of all major league players, so new discoveries at this point are few and far between—although Chickalooza and Dto7 are trying their best to make me a liar here . Because of that, for the past few years I have allowed the focus of the main thread to expand into other worthwhile projects that, at least tangentially, continue to relate to the primary focus of the forum and thread. Principal among these has been the Topps Vault project. I believe that the TV project has definite value relative to our stated focus, in that new photos of hard-to-find players emerge nearly every week.

Overall the current main thread focus feels, to me, like it has found a decent equilibrium. As I see it, the current state of the thread appears to be frequent TV posts (mostly appropriate but some duplicative), other player/photo discoveries and upgrades thrown in whenever located, and a few requests here-and-there for various items.

Outside of those bounds, there are many other topics that do (or at least may) have enough value to a reasonable number of board participants that I would like to encourage their continued exposure—though not in the main thread. Colorizations, necrology, custom cards, Photoshops/logo changes, player age studies, and rare/uncatalogued cards all come to mind as topics that have at least a moderate following but do not have a place in the main thread. There are likely other topics and I welcome discussion about what may or may not fit in this admittedly non-exclusive topic list.

My proposal relative to this group of topics is to set up a “General Baseball Image Discussion” thread in the Mods, Photos & Quick Starts forum. I believe that a separate, less-focused thread would be a better catch-all place for many of the extraneous discussions that are now included in the main thread. Such a place would allow for continuing discussions and requests that could not adequately be supported or encouraged here, while this thread retains its focus on player photo discoveries, upgrades and identification.

With that, I'll open it up to discussion, reminding the group that posts, both related to this discussion and otherwise, should remain civil.

[SDL]

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

Wrote down 075-076 incorrectly (Morogiello of course). 077-080 is Morris.

OK, the Henderson images have been reversed also. Chambers was a lefty...

Moore was ID'd as Bobby D. Moore, (Folder GT) so my search engine did not pick him up. Now that I have made my lame excuses ....

Will someone else PLEASE post the checklist updates so I can quit making a total fool out of myself? I am not enjoying being the designated screwup here, but I waited two days and no one else had bothered posting anything. WE got 40 more images today.
For what it's worth, I have an appointment with my optometrist next week. I'll still be the guy who can't ID straight, however.

Here's who I was able to ID from yesterday's 40 and I'm gonna feel stupid if the guys I didn't recognize have been posted before in other folders.

081-082 Mike Greenwell
083-084 Rogelio Moret
085-086 ???
087-088 Lloyd Moseby
089-090 Ross Moschetto
091-092 Darryl Motley
093-094 Curt Motton
095-096 ???
097-098 John Moses
099-100 Paul Moskau
101-102 Von Hayes
103-104 Gerry Moses
105-106 Jim Morrison
107-108 Willie Mueller
109-110 ???
111-112 ???
113-116 Bubba Morton
117-118 ???
119-120 ???

[keonleafs]

kg085-086 Les Moss
kg095-96 James Moyer GIANTS MiLB 66-71
kg109-110 Pat Mullin TIGERS Coach 63-66
kg111-112 Fran Mullins GIANTS 84
kg117-118 Billy Muffett, Angels coach 74-77
kg119-120 Jack Mull GIANTS Coach 85

[SPORTSMEM817]

RIP

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/br...324-story.html

[Cusick]

[QUOTE=tnfoto

My proposal relative to this group of topics is to set up a “General Baseball Image Discussion” thread in the Mods, Photos & Quick Starts forum. I believe that a separate, less-focused thread would be a better catch-all place for many of the extraneous discussions that are now included in the main thread. Such a place would allow for continuing discussions and requests that could not adequately be supported or encouraged here, while this thread retains its focus on player photo discoveries, upgrades and identification.

[/QUOTE]

I agree with your proposal, tnfoto. My only request is that, once the "General Baseball Image Discussion thread" is set up, it be regularly linked to your postings in the same way that you provide links to other related threads like managers, coaches, minor leagues, Negro Leagues, requested images, etc.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by Cusick

I agree with your proposal, tnfoto. My only request is that, once the "General Baseball Image Discussion thread" is set up, it be regularly linked to your postings in the same way that you provide links to other related threads like managers, coaches, minor leagues, Negro Leagues, requested images, etc.

That is a very good idea. I will add a link to my signature as soon as the new thread is active, probably in the place of the "Thread List" link, which is currently the least-used among them.

[okcochise]

Scott, I don't care what you implement; I am just glad you were able to jump in here before this place got too out of hand. I've often seen attitudes which insinuate that anything goes here and when someone does remind us what this thread was for, all heck breaks loose. OOTP has a lot of threads and by creating one for baseball cards, roster lists etc would seem like the best course of action. Thank you for helping us.
Jeff

[SPORTSMEM817]

There are tons of posts on here that to me I could care less about....what I find is that if you skip it and go onto the next one it seems like that works for me. Recently I posted deaths of baseball players...which I guess is Necrology. However their have been tons of other posts that were also posted to this forum in the past in regard to players passing. It appears more like it is who posts as opposed to what is posted. See below a small sampling of these posts


http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post4123659

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post4073139

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post4042814

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post4036811

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post3965371

[Rainmaker]

If creating new threads is a possibility, I would be willing to download or cut and paste the Topps Vault checklist as we know it to start a new one. The thread could be the site to update and correct it, as well as post checklists for hot topics as the McWilliams Hall of Fame archive or even the known Brace archive list that tnfoto has archived for years.
To that end, we also could re-state and clarify the rules about what may be posted from some of these sources. The Hall has has a very strict set of rules about reproducing any of the McWilliams images, but have also posted more than a dozen of them to illustrate articles on Hall of Fame web pages.
This could also be a repository for “unknown” checklists that have eluded the Trading Card Database, such as my Bryan Braves set that caused such a stir.

We could be the source for entering those to the database.
The dicey question about custom cards might be addressed by having a thread that would resemble a good, old-fashioned swap meet. People could post what their needs are in terms of images, players or formats while others could share their own custom creations or collections. No images are required to be posted, keeping it from legal issues, I’d hope.
Easy to suggest all this stuff, but is OOTP willing to host these new threads?

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by SPORTSMEM817

There are tons of posts on here that to me I could care less about....what I find is that if you skip it and go onto the next one it seems like that works for me.

In general, yes, skipping a post and moving on is easy enough. That said, the primary purpose of this thread is narrow in focus. Maintaining focus is, in the end, in the best interest of the OOTP community and, I believe, by extension the larger community as a whole.

Originally Posted by SPORTSMEM817

Recently I posted deaths of baseball players...which I guess is Necrology. However their have been tons of other posts that were also posted to this forum in the past in regard to players passing. It appears more like it is who posts as opposed to what is posted.
...

Nobody is being singled out here. I, myself, have posted such notices for very prominent players in the past. Having been responsible for the Necrology section of The Emerald Baseball Guide since 2013, this is a topic that interests me personally but it is not and should not be a focus area for this thread. I expect, moving forward, that we all may need to make a few minor concessions.

[FatJack]

Originally Posted by SPORTSMEM817

There are tons of posts on here that to me I could care less about....what I find is that if you skip it and go onto the next one it seems like that works for me. Recently I posted deaths of baseball players...which I guess is Necrology. However their have been tons of other posts that were also posted to this forum in the past in regard to players passing. It appears more like it is who posts as opposed to what is posted. See below a small sampling of these posts


http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post4123659

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post4073139

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post4042814

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post4036811

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ed#post3965371

As many of these were mine....

I was a denizen of Baseball-Birthdays and, basically, that was one of the things (necrology) I did over there. My efforts were primarily selfish. I was interested in both learning about players who were before my time (especially those whose major league careers were brief) AND I wanted the opportunity to work on craft skills such as colorization, de-autographing, photo manipulation and such. Colorization was, for a time, a popular subject at B-B. And what was also helpful there was the constructive criticism that helped me get better with my craft skills. John pretty much gave me a lot of space, which I very much appreciate. I attempted to be very in-depth with my biographies, searching deep on the internets for interesting anecdotes or game performances that (hopefully) would bring the players to life for others.

With the demise of Baseball-Birthdays I, like (I believe) others, was trying to find my place on this forum. I naturally went with what I knew-- though, in consideration of the focus of this forum, I would only post news of passings if I had an image of the player that was not already available on the forum OR if the player had been the subject of a great deal of conversation in the thread already. You picked up the necrology posts and that's fine with me. I don't believe anyone has complained about your necrology posts any more than they did mine or Cusick's. Maybe I missed something or someone complained to you in a PM. But I was not aware of any criticism on that score.

I did get a criticism of a colorization post on one occasion, so I moved any I wanted to post to the "Random Photo Colorization" thread, and I'm fine with that.

I like to contribute something to the forum, when I can (having little to no money, usually I can't), and I try not to criticize anyone else (though I'm sure I've fallen off my own high horse from time to time.....see Choo Choo Coleman). But, on occasion, the discussions here devolve into verbal fisticuffs and leave the rest of us feeling like children of about to be divorced parents. And that is not particularly pleasant for anyone. And I'm left with little more than the "advice" of Rodney King (though its always seemed to me that the reply he got was a resounding "NO").

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

...
Easy to suggest all this stuff, but is OOTP willing to host these new threads?

To answer this question most simply, each thread and discussion in this forum should have some tie-in, enhancement or support for OOTP. If the identification of player photos or a discussion about photo sources has benefit for the game (as I believe it does), the new thread fits in this forum.

[Oriole1952]

Originally Posted by okcochise

Scott, I don't care what you implement; I am just glad you were able to jump in here before this place got too out of hand. I've often seen attitudes which insinuate that anything goes here and when someone does remind us what this thread was for, all heck breaks loose. OOTP has a lot of threads and by creating one for baseball cards, roster lists etc would seem like the best course of action. Thank you for helping us.
Jeff

I have not been a big contributor here, but I've been visiting this site for a couple of years +. I "collect" old photos, mostly interested in Baltimore Orioles 1954-75..but hey, I like all the 40s, 50s and 60s I see here. I will follow no matter how you split this up, but I do want to thank all of you who have made it such a joy to follow this board. I do not replicate or distribute the pics I collect here..they are for me to enjoy. That said, I hope all the great discussions, pics, cards etc that have been here continue no matter how it is divided up. Thanks again to all of you....

[FatJack]

No longer certain of what thread these belong in, but...

These turned up on eBay, recently, from a seller named "old-n-gimpy" (I relate). They are glass transparencies from those old stereoscopic viewers (or whatever they were called...my grandmother used to have one and they were cool as hell). Pictured are players from the 1926 Cubs. The listing says it was the first year the park was called Wrigley, though Wikipedia begs to differ (citing 1927). But it was certainly 90 years away from a World Series win.

I've brightened and grey-scaled the images. The only one ID'd in the listings is the meeting of the managers of the Cubs and Pirates, Joe McCarthy (Cubs) and Bill McKechnie (Pirates). I'm bad enough on recent photos, so if anyone would like to take a stab at IDing the players, they're here for you to be had. They could all be the same player, for all I could tell you.

[Cusick]

I think the player holding the bat in the penultimate photo above is Howard Freigau. He seems to have the same elongated face and protruding chin as in the attached Freigau photo. I would also guess that the player posed as an infielder in the final photo above is also Freigau. He appears to be the same player, and Freigau was a third baseman.

The stadium of the Chicago National League team got a name change from Cubs Park to Wrigley Field in November of 1926, so 1927 would have been the first season under the name of Wrigley Field.

[keonleafs]

Originally Posted by Cusick

I think the player holding the bat in the penultimate photo above is Howard Freigau.

That picture is reversed (scoreboard behind), meaning that the player "should" be a lefty hitter. Freigau was batting right. So...

[SPORTSMEM817]

http://www.sportstalkphilly.com/2017...ead-at-54.html