A poll about women's / mixed leagues

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Then we fight. Forever.

This has now taken on the feel of a bad western

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by David Watts

This has now taken on the feel of a bad western

Look, when the enemy won't accept a reasonable compromise and insists on total victory, then the only option remaining is to fight to the bitter end.

Sun Tzu said "In difficult ground, press on; in hemmed-in ground, use subterfuge; in death ground, fight." With no compromise offered, this qualifies as death ground.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Look, when the enemy won't accept a reasonable compromise and insists on total victory, then the only option remaining is to fight to the bitter end.

You have GOT to be kidding me. You are the one insisting on total victory. What a joke you have become.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

More insults, more personalization, more meta-arguments. Even a whole post full of total, invented falsehood. Sad.

Of course, when your argument consists of "I want women in the game, even though they aren't, never have been, and never will be in the real game, because, dammit, I just want women in the game" then your best strategy probably DOES consist of trying to shut down any and all opposition by insults, attempts to degrade your opposition personally and making meta-arguments. Just like they tell rookie lawyers to yell and pound on the table when the law and the facts are against them and they have no real case to make.

If your excuse for an argument prevails, though, do realize that you're setting a valid precedent for demanding that aliens, robots, hobbits, trained bears, wombats, midgets, honey badgers, etc. be added to the game.

who was insulting u this time? I wasnt and from what I read JMM wasnt either he was quoting Full Metal Jacket..great movie BTW.

Wolf since u dont use anything but "Modern" then your argument is biased as well as mine is. I am sure u r against leagues in England, Russian players playing in MLB AI created leagues. What do u do with the players from non baseball playing countries when they came into teh game? i bet u delete them, because thats not "real".

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Look, when the enemy won't accept a reasonable compromise and insists on total victory, then the only option remaining is to fight to the bitter end.

Sun Tzu said "In difficult ground, press on; in hemmed-in ground, use subterfuge; in death ground, fight." With no compromise offered, this qualifies as death ground.

u need to listen to your own post, your the one that has been beating a dead horse for the last 4 pages.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

You have GOT to be kidding me. You are the one insisting on total victory. What a joke you have become.

Nonsense. Can't you read? Women via mod is the compromise. But even that is unacceptable to the opposition. They demand total victory.

I should insult you back as you deserve but I have better manners than you do.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Wolf since u dont use anything but "Modern" then your argument is biased as well as mine is. I am sure u r against leagues in England, Russian players playing in MLB AI created leagues. What do u do with the players from non baseball playing countries when they came into teh game? i bet u delete them, because thats not "real".

Don't have to. I edited the files to make sure that only countries that have, and therefore can, produce baseball players do so.

[Carplos]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Nonsense. Can't you read? Women via mod is the compromise. But even that is unacceptable to the opposition. They demand total victory.

Modding is not a compromise. Modders cannot add ethnicities and they cannot make FaceGen produce female images within the game.

Now, if the code was open source and someone could do something about it, sure...

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Carplos

Modding is not a compromise. Modders cannot add ethnicities and they cannot make FaceGen produce female images within the game.

Now, if the code was open source and someone could do something about it, sure...

Then we fight. That's a total waste of valuable dev time and resources just to support a silly fantasy.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Cry, what's your problem with it being done as a mod?

I don't have one, and it's fine for now. But just because something can be done (to a point) with a mod doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered to be officially done in a future version.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Nonsense. Can't you read? Women via mod is the compromise. But even that is unacceptable to the opposition. They demand total victory.

I should insult you back as you deserve but I have better manners than you do.

I can read well enough to see you badgering yourself into a corner where those that share your position won't even back you................and as for insulting you..............I merely stated a fact.


Why are you on your soapbox? No one from OOTP has even commented here that they were even thinking about devoting dev time to this. You're just in here insulting those who want this added to the game (btw, I'm against that). Modding is a good compromise at this time, but a compromise between parties that have no control over whether this is added to the game or not, so what's the big freakin' deal, bro? Nothing you, or anyone else, has to say on the subject with in the end have one thing to do with this issue being added to the game or not.

No one has attacked your position (as you've done multiple times). They've attacked your methods. Can't YOU read?

[Muzamba]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Then we fight. Forever.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

...the only option remaining is to fight to the bitter end... this qualifies as death ground.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Then we fight.

Except with me, that is.

A few days ago, Wolf apparently took umbrage with my speaking on behalf of other posters in this thread and has since refused to engage me in debate... even though others have (justifiably) spoken for the group, yet still draw rebukes from him.

I suppose this has something to do with the fact that my issue is and always has been about his disrespectful tone and not his position. Notice how every time someone points this out to him, he redirects the argument back to having women's leagues in the game vs. not allowing them in the game (or his "compromise" of allowing modders to tackle this "silliness". And also notice his insistence on continuing to label the idea as "silly". Classy! )

Wolf is simply the type of person who can never give an inch, because he apparently perceives it as a sign of weakness. He can, however, refuse to engage the "enemy", especially when he knows he's not standing on solid ground.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I don't have one, and it's fine for now. But just because something can be done (to a point) with a mod doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered to be officially done in a future version.

Having it done as a mod works for both sides then. The sticking point is that you will still want women in the official game eventually. You know very well why that doesn't work for about half the people who voted in the poll. Can we declare a truce on this subject until OOTP 14 or later and then have a cage fight over it? BTW, Cry, despite your allies, I hope that you and I remain on good terms despite our differences on this issue.

[Cryomaniac]

It certainly is a reasonable compromise, and since it's pretty unlikely that Markus has even read this thread, it'll do for now. As has also been said, there are ways that the game could improve the handling of a mod for women's leagues without actually allowing them outright, such as allowing each league to use it's own name and PbP files for one, which would also be cool for translations as well (A Mexican league with the PbP in Spanish for example).

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

It certainly is a reasonable compromise, and since it's pretty unlikely that Markus has even read this thread, it'll do for now. As has also been said, there are ways that the game could improve the handling of a mod for women's leagues without actually allowing them outright, such as allowing each league to use it's own name and PbP files for one, which would also be cool for translations as well (A Mexican league with the PbP in Spanish for example).

You can assign a specific English.xml file to a league by placing the modded xml file in the .lg/text/ folder instead of using the default one in the game's text folder.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

You can assign a specific English.xml file to a league by placing the modded xml file in the .lg/text/ folder instead of using the default one in the game's text folder.

That isn't per league, that's per saved game, which isn't the same thing.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

allowing each league to use it's own name and PbP files for one, which would also be cool for translations as well (A Mexican league with the PbP in Spanish for example).

You might be able to get significant support for that idea when the time comes, as that could have all kinds of benefits.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

That isn't per league, that's per saved game, which isn't the same thing.

Most people refer to a saved game as a league. Although I certainly understand the differences and know what you're talking about now.

[fintach]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

since it's pretty unlikely that Markus has even read this thread

If Markus has read this whole thread, I hope he's only done it for amusement during breaks.

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

No one has attacked your position (as you've done multiple times). They've attacked your methods. Can't YOU read?

Exactly. To impugn the way someone wants to play a game is ridiculous. I could not care less either way, but there is a way to be diplomatic and respectful.

Again, as I have stated, this is ultimately a marketing issue. What option is going to serve the wants and needs of the customers best. OOTP is a product designed to produce revenue and profits for its company, not a non-profit venture designed to create the ultimate MLB simulator. If adding women to the game will increase profits then it is a good business decision. Otherwise, and I suspect this is the case, you let the modders do what they do best to satisfy the niche that this option represents.

It is perfectly acceptable to be against adding women to the game. It is not acceptable to belittle those who do.