New HW Boxers Rated

[LeeSkye]

William "Iron" Hague To match the pic over in the Missing fighter photos thread for those that don't have it.

[LeeSkye]

Fighting Bob Lawson

To match the pic over in the Missing fighter photos thread for those that don't have it.

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Here's another guy who fought in the British and Commonwealth(British Empire) HW Title fights.

Danny McAlinden - 1 Overall Rating
United Kingdom 1969-1981

31 wins / 12 losses / 2 draws / 28 KO

Hometown: Coventry, England
Birthplace: Newry, Ireland
Manager: George Middletown

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto (McAlinden was in a TF2001 data base that I'd downloaded from Cubedrum's website at one time. I tweeked a few of the ratings a little. I'm not sure if Cube was the originator of this rated fighter or someone else?)

It was interesting that McAlinden started his career against another fairly well known Englishman Heavyweight of the 1970's who was also fighting his first career bout when he went up against McAlinden on July 7th, 1969. His name was Richard Dunn. McAlinden KO'd Dunn in the 1st round! McAlinden's opponents over the next 2-1/2 or so years included an 8 round decision loss to Jack O'Halloran, a 10 round draw with Ray Patterson, an 8 round decision over Lou Bailey, a 10 round decision over Carl Gizzi, a 5th round TKO over Roberto Davila and a 4th round KO ver Bill Drover. So a 20-1-2 record led up to a March 1972 fight with Larry Middleton. Middleton won by TKO in the 8th.

None the less after the Middleton loss, McAlinden was given a shot at the Commonwealth(British Empire) and British Heavyweight Titles in June 1972 against Jack Bodell. McAlinden was crowned the new king from Britain as he KO'd Bodell in the 2nd round! McAlinden was then only 3-2 in his next fights including a 10 round decision loss to Pat Duncan(44-11-3), when in January 1975 he lost the Commonwealth and British Heavyweight Titles to Bunny Johnson by KO in the 9th round.

In November1975, McAlinden took a shot at winning back the two British crowns against an old opponent, Richard Dunn who'd taken the British HW crowns from Johnson in a 15 round decision in September of 75. This time, McAlinden was no match for Dunn as he was KO'd in the 2nd by Dunn.

The rest of McAlinden's career was pretty much forgettable going only 4-6-0 against pretty much forgettable opponents.

All this info is in his bio in the import file.

Enjoy.....
Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

BTW....For McAlinden, put him up all day against other 1 Rated HW's and he'll run up numbers like his record showed. Started fighting him even against 2, 3, 4, 5 rated HW's and his record starts evening out fast, his KO's drop in half and he starts getting KO's twice as much or not more. He fought mainly 1 fighters in his career.

Rocco

[cubedrum]

All the ratings in the custom TF2001 database were by the Trunzos. A couple were entered from their Titlebout 99 cards ratings.

Cube

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Oh OK. Thanks Cube for for that. Want credit due where it needs to be.

Thanks
Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

EArly back on in the start of this tread, I'd posted a rating for Peter Weiland, a German HW of the 60's who held the European HW Title for a short period.

I've since realized my original ratings with the lack of a whole lot of testing were quite out of wack!! Here is a new file with Weiland's ratings redone after some more extensive play testing. Weiland's.

Enjoy....

Rocco

[crusadecat]

There was a rating posted for Harry Lyons which I think needs to be revised I forgot who posted it but the ratings are not producing what I would call realistic results.

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Here's another guy I posted early on and have more extensively play tested him and changed some ratings. His overall I lowered from 6 to 4, his HP went down quite a bit and his C B/S lowered some.

I play tested him against rounds with the guys in the data plus which amounted to 19 of his 46 career fights. The rest were stacked against 1 rated fighters which would look like the majority of the rest of his fights.

Piero Tomasoni 4 Rating
Italy 1961-1969

33 wins / 9 losses / 4 draws / 11 KO

Hometown: Brescia, Italy
Birthplace: Manerbio(BS), Italy
Manager: Barravecchia

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Piero had compiled at 14-0-2 record, including wins over Mariano Echevarria and Alex Buxton, when he went up against Peiro Del Papa in December 1962 for the Italian Light Heavyweight Title. Del Papa won by a 12 round decision. Tomasoni's next fights included wins over Tommy Fields, Von Clay, Benito Penna(in an Eliminator Fight for the Italian HW Title), and Sixto Rodriguez. In May 1964 he went up against Sante Amonti for the Italian Heavyweight Title, loosing a 12 round decision to Amonti. That followed with a loss to Benito Penna, and wins over Jose Menno, Wilhelm Von Homburg and Buddy Turman.

In May 1965 he lost a 15 round decision to Karl Mildenberger for the European HW Title. Tomasoni followed that fight up with another shot at the Italian HW Title against Amonti again in NOvember 1965. This time Piero was victorious with a 9th round KO of Amonti. In 1966 Piero defeated Jack Bodell by a 3rd round TKO and then fought an 8 round draw with Billy Daniels.

In February 1967, Tomasoni fought Mildenberger again for the European HW Title. Again, Mildenberger won a 15 round decision over the Italian heavyweight. In Piero's next fight he defended his Italian HW Title with a 12 round decision over Dante Cane. He followed that up with wins over Hubert Hilton, Bob Stallings and a win over Jurgen Blin as Blin was DQ'd in the 2nd round of an Eliminator fight for the European Title. In March 1969, Piero fought for a 3rd time for the European HW Title, this time against Henry Cooper. Cooper KO'd Tomasoni in the 5th round. Tomasoni then lost his Italian HW Title to Dante Cane in June 1969 by a 12 round decision. Those two fought again in December for the Italian Title with Cane victorious again by an 8th round TKO. That was Tomasoni's last fight.


Next up, I've already started on Mariano Echevarria, then decided to back track and redo Tomasoni and I'm also going to do another Spanish HW Benito Canal from the 60's. He fought Echevarria several times so once I got him done I'll have a number of Echevarria's opponents in the game to play test him. That will give me Echevarria set up to fight Gerhard Zech late in Zech's career. After Mariano I'm going to work on Wilhelm von Homburg another late career Zech opponent. At that point I think I'll be ready to resume Zech's career replay.

Enjoy......

Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Here are Mariano Echevarria and Benito Canal from Spain. They were both a couple busy (especially Echevarria) HW's who fought each other 8 different times including several fights for the Spanish HW Title. Echevarria will be a later opponent of Gerhard Zech.

Mariano Echevarria 1 Rating Overall
Spain - 1957-1973

37 wins / 54 losses / 11 draws / 14 KO

Alias:Jose M Moracia ibanes
Birthplace: Bilbao, Spain

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

This guy was a busy heavyweight during the late 50's to early 70's. He was the Spanish Heavyweight Champion from April 1961 thru Sept. 1962 then again from March 1966 thru August 1969. He defeated Jose Gonzales in 1961 to win the title the first time. After he was defeated by Benito Canal in Sept. 1962 for the Spanish Title, he fought Canal again for that title in April 1963 loosing again to Canal. In Jan. 1966 he fought Francisco San Jose for the Spanish HW Title only to loose again. Finally in a rematch with San Jose in March 1966 he won back the Spanish crown. He held it again until Aug. 1969 when he lost to an old nemesis, Benito Canal. Echevarria then fought 2 more times for the Spanish HW Title. In Sept. 1971 he fought a 12 round draw with current champion, Jose Manuel Urtain. Then in October 1972 he lost a 12 round decision to Casimiro Martinez.

Previous to fighting for the Heavyweight Title in Spain, Echevarria fought as a Light Heavyweight and held the LHW Title in Spain from July 1958 till Sept. 1960.

The more noteable fights in Echevarria's career included a 6 round loss to Karl Mildenberger in the German's 4th career fight. He lost to Plinio Scarabellin, Dieter Wemhoner and Giulio Rinaldi in three straight fights. He lost KO in the 4th to Sante Amonti and lost a 10 round decision to Rocco Mazzola (got to rate that guy!). He first won the Spanish HW Title in April 1961 defeating Jose Gonzales Sales. Echevarria then defeated Sales in a rematch for the title two months later. Echevarria then lost fights Franco DePiccoli, Piero Tomasoni, fought a draw with Federico Friso. He lost a 10 round decision to Franco Cavicchi, defeated Jean-Paul Schiller, drew with Billy Walker and Ulli Nitzscke, lost to Johnny Prescott, then defeated Federico Friso, all before loosing his Spanish HW Title for the first time to Benito Canal.

After that he lost fights to Joe Erskine, Billy Walker, Mike Holt, Johnny Prescott, Jose Sales, Schiller, Jack Bodell, Tommy Fields, drew with Peter Weiland, lost to Billy Gray, Leotis Martin, Bepi Ros, Yvan Prebeg, Weiland, Ray Patterson, Joe Shelton, Raul Roux, Gerhard Zech, Mario Baruzzi, Mike Schutte, and Bernd August.

If you check out Billy Dennis' collection of HW's posted at CornerWork.com you'll see the guys like Baruzzi, Schutte and August.


Benito Canal 1 Rating Overall
Spain - 1960-1969

22 wins / 11 losses / 4 draws / 10 KO

Birthplace: Fontao, Spain

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Canal's first career fight was in December 1960 against Mariano Echevarria. It was the first of 8 times these two would fight each other. Echevarria was victorious in this first bout by way of an 8 round decision. Over the years they would fight 7 more times with Canal getting the upper hand in 5 of those bouts.

In Sept. 1962 Benito and Mariano fought for the Spanish Heavyweight Title which Canal won in a 12 round decision. Those two fought again in April 1963 for the Spanish Title with Canal winning again a 12 round decision. Canal then defeated Werner Wiegand(40-23-5) from Luxemburg and Federico Friso. From 1964 to 67 Canal successfully defended his Spanish HW Title 3 more times. Between those title fights he lost a 10 round decision to Johnny Prescott, defeated Echevarria two more times in non title fights, lost by KO in 2 to Dante Cane, and KO in 2 to Jack Bodell.

In August 1968 he lost the Spanish HW Title to Echevarria by 9th round TKO. He fought Echevarria a 7th time in Sept. 1968, again for the Spanish Title. Canal lost by TKO in the 9th. He fought Echevarria then a year later an 8th and final time, beating Echevarria in a 12 round decision to win back the Spanish HW Title. Canal then lost 3 out his last 4 career fights, all 3 losses by knockout including his last fight, loosing the Spanish Title to Jose Manuel Urtain by 2nd round KO.

Enjoy.....

Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

In between working on a few new fighters and trying to keep up
with all the great new fighters added by everyone on this
board, I've been thinking about how to progress with Gerhard
Zech's career. I started looking at a few of the records of
some of the top heavyweights at that time in late 1966 and it
suddenly dawned on me what an excellant way there is that opens itself up to do this with the upcoming events in heavyweight boxing heading into the year 1967. With the ongoing events surrounding Muhammad Ali and his eventual taking away of his world heavyweigth title and his "retirement" in 1967, we had in 1967 and early 1968 the staging of a heavyweight elimination tournament set up by the World Boxing Association to fill the vacant heavyweight title.

We have Gerhard Zech following in the footsteps of Karl
Mildenberger at this time. In our replay here Zech has defeated
Mildenberger for the European HW Title, then taken on and
defeated Machen and Prebeg just as Karl did in early/mid 1966
to lead him up to his fight with Ali for the Heavyweight
championship. Our friend Gerhard, didn't last quite as long
against Ali as Karl did, but still he put up a good fight
giving us 10 rounds against Ali.
Mildenberger despite his loss to Ali would remain in the top 10
rankings of heavyweights and then as the events of 1967 began
to unravel, the situation presented itself to where
Mildenberger would again be presented with the opportunity to
fight for the World Heavyweight Title. So transporting our
friend Gerhard further into the shoes or mitts of Karl, these
events of 1967 lead to an interesting continuation of our
career replay of Gerhard Zech!


First lets set the scene of the heavyweight boxing world in the
1960's leading up to 1966 and 1967......(Thought this might be
interesting reading at least to some of us less knowledgable
boxing fans here in the TBCB world).....


In the beginning years of the 1960's you had two prominent
governing bodies in the world of boxing, the National Boxing
Association and the New York State Athletic Commission. The
"Undisputed Title" holder of the World Heavyweight Title at
that time was recognized as champion by both the NBA and the
NYSAC. In 1962, the the old NBA became what we now know as the World Boxing Association or WBA. The Sonny Liston/Floyd
Patterson HW fight in Sept. 1962 was the first heavyweight
title fight sanctioned by the newly named WBA.
In 1963 you had a 3rd governing body come onto the boxing
scene, the World Boxing Council or WBC. The 2nd
Liston/Patterson fight in July 1963 was the first sanctioned HW
title fight for the new WBC. On Feb. 25th, 1964, one Cassius Clay defeated reigning heavyweight champion Sonny Liston. Soon after, Clay announced that he had become a member of the Nation of Islam and had changed his name to Muhammad Ali.
On Sept. 14th 1964, the WBA withdrew it's championship
recognition of Ali for the given reason of Ali signing on for a
return fight with Liston. All other boxing commissions
including the wBC continued to recognize Ali as the Champion.
The WBA, though declared the title to be vacant.
In 1965, the WBA set up a title fight between two top ranked
heavyweights for the wBA's version of the World Heavyweight
Title. On March 5th 1965 Ernie Terrell defeated Eddie Machen in
a 15 round UD. Terrell later in 1965 defended the WBA Title
against George Chuvalo, winning another 15 round UD. In June
1966, he successfully defended his title again, in a 3rd 15
round UD, this time against Doug Jones. Meanwhile, Ali defended
successfully his World (WBC and other recognized) Heavyweight
Title against first Sonny Liston and then Floyd Patterson.

By the end of 1965 the Ring Heavyweight Rankings(rankings most looked on as the "official" rankings), looked as follows....

Champ - Muhammad Ali
1. Ernie Terrell-WBA HW Title Holder
2. Floyd Patterson
3. George Chuvalo
4. Karl Mildenberger-Current European HW Title Holder
5. Zora Folley
6. Amos Lincoln
7. Thad Spencer
8. Doug Jones
9. Hubert Hilton
10. Brian London


1966 would prove to be a very successful year in the ring for
Ali, but on the personal front it was a year of growing
problems for him. In February of that year, Ali was classified
A1 by the draft board and thus could be expected to be called
up into the arm forces soon. Ali's now famous "I got no quarrel
with them Vietcong" in his defience to being drafted set off a
backlash of public sentitment turning against Ali. This growing
negative sentiment drove Ali to go out of the country to seeks
matches on foreign soil in 1966 while he waited for a decision
on his appeal for draft deferment as a conscientious objector
and then as a Muslim minister. That list of Title fights he
would undertake in 1966 of course were his victories over
George Chuvalo, Henry Cooper, Brian London, and Karl
Mildenberger in bouts staged outside the US, before he returned
to the US to defeat Cleveland Williams in Houston, Texas.
Going into 1967 Ali continued his defiant stand against being
inducted into the arm services. Meanwhile he continued to pile
up victories in title defences. On Feb. 6, 1967 Ali and Ernie
Terrell fought each other in Houston, Texas to decide who was
the heavyweight champion of the world. Ali won in a 15 round UD
leaving Ali once again the undisputed and now again unified
heavyweight champion. On March 22nd, Ali successfully defended
his title again, this time by a 7th round KO of Zora Folley
again in Houston, Texas. It would turn out to be Ali's last
fight in the ring anyway, for 3 years.

On April 28th, 1967, Ali was ordered to report for induction
into service. He reported but refused to be inducted. On May
9, 1967 a federal grand jury indicted him on the charge of failing
to submit to the draft. Within a few hours, the WBA, WBC, the
NYSAC and everyother boxing commission stripped Ali of his
heavyweight title. This set in motion the formation of the
heavyweight tournament that was held in 1967-68 to fill Ali's
now vacant title.


Following is an account of the events of the forming of this
tournament out of "An Illustrated History of Boxing", by Nat
Fleischer and Sam Andre......
"Nothing had caused so great a muddle around the
heavyweight title as had Ali's draft case. The WBA had taken
the title from him and now it had to find a replacement. Three
months later it sanctioned the organization of an eight-man
elimination tournament headed by Mike Malitz's Sports Action,
Inc. a New York based firm, to determine who would take over
Ali's "vacated" title.
The intent of the tourny was somewhat thwarted when
officials of New York's Madison Square Garden arranged a bout
between GEorge Chuvalo, of Canada and Joe Frazier, of
Philadelphia, for July 19, 1967. Frazier knocked out Chuvalo in
the fourth round, then refused to join the elimination group.
The group consisted of Frazier, Thad Spencer, Ernie Terrell,
Oscar Bonavena, Karl Mildenberger, Jimmy Ellis, Floyd Patterson
and Jerry Quarry.
In retaliation, the WBA dropped Frazier from number one to number nine in its ratings, to enable Leotis Martin to get
into the number eight spot as Frazier's substitute.
The New York Boxing Commission further complicated
matters by declaring that the winner of the WBA tourney would
not be recognized unless that champion defeated Frazier.
The round-robin began on August 5, 1967, with Spencer pitted against Terrell and Ellis against Martin, in Houston,
Texas. Spencer, from Portland, Oregon, won a 12 round decision
over Terrell, of Atlantic City, New Jersey. On the same day and
in the same arena, Ellis, from Louisville, kayoed the
Philadelphian, Martin in the 9th.
In Frankfurt, Germany, Bonavena beat Mildenbergerin 12 rounds on September 16, 1967.
The final match in the first round was fought between
Patterson and Quarry on October 28 in Quarry's home state,
California. Quarry won a split decision in which referee Vern
Bybee voted a draw while judges Lee Grossman and Joey Lomas
gave the fight to Quarry.
Now Mexico and Britain entered the picture. Mexico's
governing body for boxing tried by failed to get Manuel Ramos
in the wBA listings. Ramos had stopped Terrell on
October 14. Likewise, the British couldn't get Eduardo
Corletti, victor over JOhnny Prescott on October 17, into the
tourney.
IN the semifinal round, on December 2, 1967, Ellis and
Bonavena met in Louisville, Kentucky, where Ellis decked
Bonavena twice and went on to win a unanimous decision in 12
rounds.
In Oakland, Califorina, Quarry stopped 6-foot, 4-inch
Spencer in the second semifinal, three seconds before the bell
ended the 12 round fight on February 3, 1968.
The final bout of the tournament took place on April
27, 1968, in Oakland where the 197 pound Ellis won over the 195
Quarry in a 15 round split decision."
"Ellis was the WBA champion, but the New York Boxing
Commission announced that it would recognize the winner of the
JOe Frazier-Buster Mathis bout as the new champion. Five state
commissions as well as those of Mexico and South America,
followed New York's decision."

So when Frazier stopped Mathis in the 11th round of their
fight, we had two recognized heavyweight champions, the WBA's
Jimmy Ellis and the NYSAC's Joe Frazier. The split title would
stay that way until February 16, 1970 when the two met in New
York and Frazier stopped Ellis in the 5th. The original title
stripped from Ali back in early 1967 was finnaly filled by one
recognized fighter over 3 years later, Joe Frazier.
This sets the stage for my continuation of Gerhard Zech's
career replay and my "what if" replay of the WBA Tourney, with
hopefully Zech involved!

Doing a replay of the WBA tournament was something I'd been
wanting to do but in a different "what if" fashion. What if
there hadn't been that controversial going ons between the WBA
and the NYSAC and Joe Frazier had actually participated in the
tournament and not ended up having the split title between
Frazier and Jimmy Ellis? Also, what if we did expand the
tournament a bit lets say to a 16 man field that would then
allow in those "fringe" heavyweight contenders who were in that
sort of 2nd echelon of heavyweight contenders back in 1967. We
could thus allowing the Ramos and Corletti in possibly along
guys like Chuvalo and Cooper. I think it would be
interesting adding a little more international flavor to the
tournament.

I mentioned above the topped ranked Heavyweights at the end of 1965 by Ring Magazine(Got this off heavyweight's website). From here I'm doing a little look at the careers of these topped
ranked heavyweights along with a some others not ranked in the
top 10 and see what they did in 1966 and into 1967. As I go
through this little study it will help us to see just what
we'll be looking at with the continuation of our replay of
Gerhard Zech's career through the WBA Elimation
tournament(hopefully ) and to see who all we might involve.

So what did each of the top 10 ranked above do in 1966?
(The records shown in () is the record at that time of each opponent.

1. Ernie Terrell(1-0-0)
6/28/66 Doug Jones(29-6-1) W UD 15
For the WBA Heavyweight Title held by Terrell
Though fighting only 1 time, Terrell would maintain his #1
Ranked contender at the end of 1966.

2. Floyd Patterson(1-0-0)
9/29/66 Henry Cooper(33-12-1) W KO 4
Fighting only 1 time apparently hurt Patterson as he dropped to
#4 Ranking at the end of 1966.

3. George Chuvalo(7-3-0)
1/25/66 Eduardo Corletti(11-2-5) L PTS 10
3/29/66 Muhammad Ali(22-0-0) L UD 15
For the World Heavyweight Title
5/14/66 Levi Forte(15-11-2) W KO 2
6/12/66 Oscar Bonavena(20-2-0) L PTS 10
8/16/66 Mel Turnbow(6-6-0) W KO 7
9/15/66 Bob Avery(13-6-2) W KO 2
10/12/66 Dick Wipperman(32-6-1) W KO 5
11/20/66 Boston Jacobs(5-2-0) W KO 3
11/28/66 Dave Russell(8-14-3) W KO 2
12/16/66 Willie McCormick(0-0-0) W KO 3
Even though a nice 7-3 record there was apparently maybe it was considered just too many of those fights against weak
competition. That coupled with the losses to Corletti, Ali and
Bonavena dropped Chuvalo down to #8 ranking at the end of 1966.

4. Karl Mildenberger(2-1-0) (Current European HW Champion)
2/3/66 Eddie Machen(47-6-3) W PTS 10
6/5/66 Yvan Prebeg(13-9-3) W PTS 15
For European Heavyweight Title
9/10/66 Muhammad Ali(25-0-0) L TKO 12
For World Heavyweight Title
Mildenberger dropped to #5 by the end of 1966. His good showing against Ali apparently worked in his favor to not drop even farther.

5.Zora Folley(3-0-0)
6/28/66 Jefferson Davis(27-9-1) W KO 8
10/25/66 Henry Clark(8-2-2) W PTS 10
12/13/66 Jefferson Davis(27-11-1) W PTS 10
A nice 3-0 record against decent competition moves Folley up to
#2 Ranked contender at the end of 1966!

6. Amos Lincoln(3-1-0)
2/3/66 Henry Clark(8-2-1) NC 8
3/3/66 Billy Daniels(20-11-1) W PTS 10
6/21/66 Elmer Rush(14-1-2) W TD 6
8/31/66 Elmer Rush(14-2-2) W TKO 9
10/21/66 Johnny Persol(16-3-1) L PTS 10
That Persol loss must have really hurt as Lincoln drops out of
the top 10 rankings. How far did he go? Still in the top 15
maybe?

7. Thad Spencer(5-0-0)
1/19/66 Chuck Leslie(10-8-1) W PTS 12
For California State HW Title
2/21/66 Billy Daniels(20-10-1) W PTS 6
4/18/66 Jack Bodell(35-6-0) W TKO 6
5/2/66 Brian London(34-12-0) W PTS 10
9/13/66 Bill McMurray(19-15-1) L KO 7
For California State HW Title
10/14/66 Doug Jones(29-7-1) W PTS 10
Great looking record for the year of 1966. Spencer moves up to
#3 in the rankings by year end 1966. Not sure why he's still
behind Folley though??

8. Doug Jones(1-2-0)
3/8/66 Lou Bailey(13-23-5) W TKO 6
6/28/66 Ernie Terrell(38-4-0) L UD 15
For WBA Heavyweight Title
10/14/66 Thad Spencer(29-5-0) L PTS 10
Here's a real good heavyweight of the late 50's and 60's who's
on his way down. This poor showing drops him out of the top 10.
He'll continue down into 1967.

9. Hubert Hilton(2-2-0)
1/25/66 Henry Cooper(31-11-1) L TKO 2
3/29/66 Jimmy Ellis(17-5-0) L PTS 8
6/15/66 Mel Turnbow(6-5-0) W TKO 4
9/8/66 Billy Joiner(9-1-0) W KO 9
Hilton like Jones drops out of the top 10 never to be seen
again. Those losses to Cooper and Ellis along with one to
Roberto Davila before the Cooper fight toward the end of 1965
really hurt his career. It never seemed the same after 1966.

10. Brian London(1-2-0)
5/2/66 Thad Spencer(28-4-0) L PTS 10
6/21/66 Amos Lincoln(22-3-2) W DQ 7
8/6/66 Muhammad Ali(24-0-0) L KO 3
World Heavyweight Title
Down and out. Two big losses coupled with the DQ win against
Lincoln drop him out. 1967 would really not be much any better
for Brian.

So we had 4 fighters drop out of the top 10 by the end of 1966,
Lincoln, Jones, Hilton and London. So who moved up in 1966?!
Well, lets take a look at what some of the other prominent
heavyweights did in 1966.

Jimmy Ellis(4-0-0)
3/29/66 Hubert Hilton(13-3-2) W PTS 8
5/21/66 Leweni Waga(18-4-1) W KO 1
9/10/66 Billy Daniels(20-14-1) W PTS 6
This fight was at the Waldstadion in Frankfurt,
Germany! This must have been a preliminary bout to the
Ali/Mildenberger Title fight!
11/14/66 Tommy Sims(33-28-4) W KO 1
After a sluggish start in his career it started to take off in
1965 and 1966.

Henry Cooper(2-2-0) Current British Heavyweight and
Commonwealth(British Empire) Heavyweight Title Holder.
1/25/66 Hubert HIlton(13-2-2) W TKO 2
2/16/66 Jefferson Davis(19-3-2) W KO 1
5/21/66 Muhammad Ali(23-0-0) L TKO 6
World Heavyweight Title
9/29/66 Floyd Patterson(43-5-0) L KO 4
A decent start to 1966 apparently gave Ali the notion he was
worth fighting in a title fight in Ali's world wind
international title fight tour. Ali and Patterson sent Cooper
back to earth. Someone mentioned, I think it was LeeSkye, that
maybe Cooper should be the next opponent of Gerhard giving
Cooper a shot at the European Title. Well, after his loss to
Ali, Mildenberger did defend his European title a couple times
in 1967, but not against Cooper. Since we're following Gerhard
in Karl's shoes, I'm going to continue that path through 1967.

Jerry Quarry(7-1-2)
2/3/66 Eddie Land(0-3-0) W PTS 8
2/17/66 Prentice Snipes(18-9-0) W KO 5
3/4/66 Tony Alongi(38-2-1) D PTS 10
4/7/66 George(Scrap Iron) JOhnson(6-10-4) W KO 2
5/2/66 Memphis Al Jones(2-4-2) W PTS 10
5/28/66 Tony Alongi(38-2-2) D PTS 10
7/14/66 Eddie Machen(48-8-3) L PTS 10
10/20/66 Bill Nielson(23-10-2) W PTS 10
11/29/66 Leslie Borden(12-8-2) W KO 5
12/15/66 Joey Orbillo(10-1-1) W PTS 10
Well, Jerry kept himself busy slowly inching his way up the
heavyweight rankings with some modest success in 1966.

Joe Frazier(9-0-0)
1/17/66 Mel Turnbow(6-3-0) W KO 1
3/4/66 Dick Wipperman(30-5-1) W TKO 5
4/4/66 Charley Polite(3-4-1) W TKO 2
4/28/66 Don(Toro) Smith(8-4-1) W KO 3
5/19/66 Chuck Leslie(11-9-1) W KO 3
5/26/66 Memphis Al Jones(2-5-2) W KO 1
7/25/66 Billy Daniels(20-13-1) W TKO 6
9/21/66 Oscar Bonavena(21-2-0) W SD 10
11/21/66 Eddie Machen(50-8-3) W TKO 10
Frazier is charging up the hill in the heavyweight rankings
reaching #6 by year end 1966.

Oscar Bonavena(7-2-0) (Current Argentinian and South American
Title holder I believe by the info I get from BoxRec.)
1/12/66 Bruno Segura(0-3-0) W KO 2
3/12/66 Jose Giorgetti(30-4-2) L DQ 8
4/16/66 Jose Giorgetti(31-4-2) W PTS 10
6/24/66 George Chuvalo(35-12-2) W PTS 10
9/21/66 Joe Frazier(11-0-0) L SD 10
10/7/66 Alberto Benassi(1-4-0) W KO 5
10/21/66 Amos Johnson(22-5-2) W PTS 10
11/18/66 Alberto Benassi(1-5-0) W TKO 5
12/1/66 Roberto Veliz(0-7-0) W KO 4
Good showing record wise in 1966 for Ringo. He'll be moving up
the rankings and #7 by the end of 1966.

Piero Tomasoni(2-0-1)
4/29/66 Giorgio Maseghin(17-6-0) W DQ 10
For the Italian HW Title
6/28/66 Jack Bodell(35-7-0) W TKO 3
11/3/66 Billy Daniels(20-15-1) D PTS 8
The new Italian Heavyweight Title holder in 1966 is not to be
seen near the top 10 rankings but he'll show up again in 1967
in an important fight in our project here with Gerhard Zech!

Buster Mathis(11-0-0)
1/7/66 Chuck Wepner(4-1-2) W TKO 3
1/19/66 Mike Bruce(4-2-1) W KO 5
2/16/66 Charley Polite(3-3-1) W PTS 6
6/16/66 Tom Swift(0-1-0) W KO 1
6/24/66 Everett Copeland(4-7-3) W KO 2
7/28/66 Charley Chase(12-7-1) W PTS 6
8/29/66 Mert Brownfield(6-3-0) W KO 1
9/15/66 Bob Stallings(11-5-0) W PTS 10
9/28/66 Marty Franklin(0-0-0) W KO 3
11/2/66 Johnny Barrazza(6-8-0) W KO 1
11/17/66 Sonny Andrews(1-9-0) W KO 2
Building the kind of recorded needed against the lower echelon
of the heavyweight stable to get you the shot at the upper
crust. Mathis is moving himself up but we'll have to wait and
see a bit yet to see where he goes.

Johnny Persol(4-0-0)
1/7/66 Harold JOhnson(71-8-0) W UD 10
4/6/66 Herschel Jacobs(18-11-2) W SD 10
8/25/66 James J. Woody(10-0-0) W PTS 10
10/21/66 Amos Lincoln(36-4-3) W PTS 10
Persol fought mainly in the Light Heavyweight Division in his
career. In 66 after fights against LHW's Johnson and Jacobs he
moves up to the heavyweight division and takes on and defeats
Woody and LIncoln. The rankings of got off heavyweight's site
show Persol ranked #9 at year end 1966. I'm having a hard time
understanding him getting this ranking when he was fighting
mainly LHW up till the fights with Woody and LIncoln??

Eduardo Corletti(7-0-0)
1/25/66 George Chuvalo(34-10-2) W PTS 10
6/3/66 Telmo Gonzalez(0-4-0) W KO 2
7/16/66 Silvestre Serena(0-0-0) W KO 6
8/16/66 Alberto Benassi(1-3-0) W PTS 10
9/1/66 Pedro Coria(0-2-0) W PTS 10
10/1/66 Jose Giorgetti(35-5-2) W PTS 10
11/4/66 Roberto Veliz(0-6-0) W PTS 10
Corletti, from Argentina is starting to become more known in
the international scene. Prior to the Chuvalo fight, Corletti
had beaten and drawn with Billy Walker in consecutive fights
and fought a 10 round draw with Albert Westphal.Corletti's name
will come up in our unfolding Gerhard Saga!

Manual Ramos(9-0-0)
3/31/66 Jerry Simmering(10-5-0) W KO 6
4/23/66 John Henry Jackson(8-11-2) W KO 2
5/5/66 Archie Ray(20-4-2) W PTS 8
6/3/66 Eddie Machen(47-7-3) W SD 10
8/7/66 Wayne Heath(9-4-0) W KO 2
9/11/66 Dave Centi(11-8-0) W KO 3
10/22/66 Don Koontz(9-2-0) W KO 3
12/19/66 Max Martinez(4-2-0) W KO 2
A heavyweight from Mexico whom BoxRec shows winning the Mexican HW Title in 1963 but then no refights after that, so, not sure about the Mexican Title if he still held that. But, he's moving
up the ladder internationally. That 9-0 streak in 1966 which
included the wins over Archie Ray and Eddie Machen help propel
Ramos to the #10 slot in the 1966 year end ratings by Ring!

Leotis Martin(2-0-0)
12/5/66 Amos Johnson(22-6-2) W KO 3
12/22/66 Roberto Davila(9-7-0) W PTS 10
Martin was 17-1-0 and making a climb up the heavyweight
rankings. He'd not fought though since December of 1965 when he finally got back into the ring with JOhnson and then defeated
DAvila a couple weeks later. We'll hear though from Martin
later in 1967.

By the end of 1966 the Ring Top 10 Heavyweights looks like
this......

Champ - Muhammad Ali
1. Ernie Terrell
2. Zora Folley
3. Thad Spencer
4. Floyd Patterson
5. Karl Mildenberger
6. Joe Frazier
7. Oscar Bonavena
8. George Chuvalo
9. Johnny Persol
10. Manuel Ramos

Now lets back track a little bit to within our Zech Replay.
Gerhard had defeated Mildenberger for the European Crown. Zech then went on to defeat the 2 opponents Karl fought in 1966, Machen and Prebeg. Then went on to fight Ali as Karl did in
1966. So lets imagine Zech's at that #5 ranking at the end of
1966. Where does that put us with Mildenberger? What happens to him. Natural course may be him following the actual career play
of Zech. When Zech actually lost to Mildenberger in late 1965,
Zech then went on to defend his German Heavyweight Title
against Albert Westphal in April 1966 and then traveled to
Sweden to take on Sonny Liston who was touring Sweden to keep his heavyweight career alive when nobody seemed to care about it in the states after his controversial defeats to Ali in 64
and 65. Zech beat Westphal, then lost to Liston. He fought one
more time in 1966 defending his German title again, this time
against Jurgen Blin. That fight ended in a 12 round draw.

So, in our replay, with Zech defeating Mildenberger for the European HW Title, would Mildenberger have followed more or less in Zech's tracks and first looked to regain the German HW Title say vacated by Zech to go after the European crown? Let's say he does. First thing I think we'll do is stage a little fight between Mildenberger and Westphal for the German HW Title. From there we'll look further into what Mildenberger does going into 1967 and what happens with the rest our group of heavyweights being studied.

This is turning out more interesting then what I ever imagined it would be doing this Zech thing!

[jofre]

Rocco, you are correct about the Ellis-Daniels fight being on the undercard of Ali-Mildenberger. I was stationed in Wurzburg, Germany and attended the fight.

[Gunsmoke]

Hi Guys,

Nice set of reasoning there Rocco, I'm really getting into your little alternative history that you've got going here.

Finally got my thumb out and decided to rate the next fighter in the Norton career replay. Norton's ninth fight would be against Pedro Rene Sanchez, a hard hitting soft chinned slugger from Miami.

Norton's Ninth Fight - 1969-03-31

Pedro Rene Sanchez - 6-13-0 (5)

Sanchez was a very limited fighter from Miami, FL. A nice punch gave him five stoppage wins but overall he tallied a loosing record against very limited opposition. The only fighter in the game that he faced was Ken Norton (he fought Dave Zyglewicz as well but he's not rated yet...). Norton would pound him into submission with a second round knockout to take his record to 9-0-0 (8).

Sanchez's Career Bouts:
1969-10-26 Getulio Bueno 1-0-0 L TKO 3
1969-06-18 John Hudgins 6-6-1 L KO 1
1969-05-06 Tony Longo 0-0-0 W KO 1
1969-03-31 Ken Norton 8-0-0 L KO 2
1969-01-01 Ken Brewster 1-3-0 L TKO 9
1968-11-19 Dave Zyglewicz 27-1-0 L KO 1
1968-09-18 Jerry Tomasetti 12-4-0 L KO 8
1968-06-04 Ollie Wilson 17-31-1 L PTS 4
1968-04-02 Eddie Talhami 8-1-0 L TKO 6
1968-02-23 Moses Harrell 6-2-2 L TKO 3
1968-02-02 Mike Jackson 1-1-0 W KO 6
1968-01-30 Willie McIntyre 3-1-1 W PTS 8
1967-11-21 David King 0-0-0 L PTS 8
1967-10-24 John Hudgins 0-0-0 W TKO 3
1967-10-03 Aaron Beasley 10-13-4 W KO 1
1967-09-12 Gene Idelette 2-5-1 L PTS 6
1967-08-29 Fred Green 0-3-0 W KO 2
1967-05-23 Tony Ventura 5-1-0 L KO 2
1964-11-29 Jimmy Richards 5-0-1 L KO 2

Cheers,
Mark

[Gunsmoke]

...and here's a bonus fighter for Vistaman. I ran into this guy when rating Battling Jack Flood. O'Dell Riley had an interesting name and an interesting record so I thought I would rate him.

Cheers,
Mark

[Gunsmoke]

...and the board doesn't seem to like names with apostrophe's. I try again...

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Enjoying your replay and thanks for bringing to life the fighters involved Gunsmoke!

Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Carrying forward Karl Mildenberger's career through 1966 in the
alternative path of Zech's after having lost the European Title
to German stable mate Zech in late 1965, Karl first signs on to
fight veteran heavyweight Albert Westphal for the vacant German
Heavyweight Title. For Westphal, it's going to be one last shot
at the spotlight in German heavyweight boxing after loosing the
German crown to Zech back in 1963.

April 15, 1966
In Hamburg, Germany,
Karl Mildenberger(46-3-3) vs Albert Westphal(38-13-6)
For the German Heavyweight Title

The fight turns out to be long 12 rounds of plodding movement
by both of these fighters. Not a lot of action to get excited
about as there's no knockdowns by either. It ends up a UD in 12
rounds for Mildenberger crowning him the German Heavyweight
Champ. The line score was 115-112,115-112,115-112.


Karl then agrees to take on former World Heavyweight Champ
Sonny Liston in Gothenburg, Sweden. For Liston, he's gone
overseas to get him a fight where he can after the debacle of
the two Ali fights in 1964 and 1965. For Karl, this could be a
fight to shed a little light maybe back on him in the
international boxing community if he could take down the former
World champ.

June 14, 1966
In Gothenburg, Sweden
Karl Mildenberger(47-3-3) vs Sonny Liston(35-3-0)
A scheduled 10 round bout.

Liston controls this fight from the start. Through the first 7
rounds, Liston was ahead on on score cards 69-64 with
Mildenberger only able to control things in the 3rd round. Then
in the 8th about a 1/2 minute in, Liston puts Karl down for a 5
count. Mildenberger regains himself for a short bit, but then
Liston floors Karl again for a 2nd time and this time he stays
down for an 8th round KO at the 2:08 mark.


Karls lays off 5 months after the tough defeat to Liston before
he agrees to take on up and coming Jurgen Blin. It will be a
title defence of this German Heavyweight Title.

November 18, 1966
In Cologne, Germany
Karl Mildenberger(47-4-3) vs Jurgen Blin(11-3-2)
A scheduled 12 rounds for the German Heavyweight Title

This is a close fight for the first 6 rounds. Karl was ahead
58-56 on two of the cards while the 3rd judge had Blin ahead
58-56. This thing could have gone either way if it had gone the
full 12. But then it came to a sudden ending just as the 7th
round got started. As the 7th started....

0:00 Here come the fighters to ring center...
0:03 That punch landed high on Mildenberger's forehead. Oh!
Jurgen Blin's face is contorted from the pain. He's holding his
hand. He must have hurt it badly. The referee is coming over...
Jurgen Blin can't continue, and this fight is over!
MIldenberger wins via TKO!

Karl gets handed a win that maybe he wouldn't have had?! Boy
does this set itself up for a rematch?! Interesting thing about
this. The real fight between Zech and Blin ended in a 12 round
draw. The two fought a rematch in Feb. 1967 which ended in
another 12 round draw! The end of this fight between
Mildenberger and Blin sure makes it a situation where Karl just
has to give Blin a rematch and soon!!

So that leads us out of the year 1966. Here again are the 1966
year end top 10 with Zech tranposed into Mildenberger's slot.

Champ - Muhammad Ali
1. Ernie Terrell
2. Zora Folley
3. Thad Spencer
4. Floyd Patterson
5. Gerhard Zech
6. Joe Frazier
7. Oscar Bonavena
8. George Chuvalo
9. Johnny Persol
10. Manuel Ramos

And hanging around just below that #10 rung we got the rest of

these guys....
Mildenberger
Lincoln
Jones
Hilton
London
Ellis
Cooper
Quarry
Tomasoni(Maybe not really a contender but an important fight
coming up in 1967)
Mathis
Corletti
Martin

[Rocco Del Sesto]

I'm going to be out of town on business the next 3 days and figured I'd take some info with me to try and work up some kind of subjective rankings of our heavyweights leading into 1967 beyond the top 10. I'm thinking of looking at taking this WBA tournament and expanding it into a bit broader scope with mayb 16 to the top 20 rated heavyweights going into the August 1967 period when the WBA put this together.

I'll let you know what I come up with hopefully when I get back.

Rocco

[Gunsmoke]

Hi Guys,

Time for the next Norton opponent, this time it's the veteran Californian HW Bill McMurray.

Norton's Tenth Fight - 1969-05-29

Bill McMurray 23-24-3 (8)

Another of the crop of California heavyweights from the 60's. McMurray was a professional opponent for some of the biggest names of the decade. From 1959 till the start of 1962 McMurray built a reasonable 13-3-0 record fighting against Club Fighters and nobodies. At the start of 1962 he fought fellow trialhorse Paul Andrews, right at the the end of Andrews career, to whom he lost a 10 round decision. He wouldn't win again till the early part of 1963 when he knocksout George Logan in the eighth. He win one, then lose one through the next 4 fights before facing Eddie Machen in his push to a World title fight, he would be kayoed in seven. He had a five month layoff before accepting a fight against Charley Powell which he also lost by KO, this time in three rounds and his once reasonable career record was looking decidedly more shabby at 16-9-0. Two tough fights against Elmer Rush followed the disappointing outing against Powell which result in a draw and a split decision loss. Somehow his run of 4 defeats earned him a shot at the California State Heavyweight title against Roger Rischer. Rischer was too polished however and McMurray lost on points after 12 rounds. Rischer agreed to a non-title rematch and again proved too good, this time taking a decision in 10.

Once again McMurray fought Rush in October of 64, the third time he fought Rush since May of that year, and again he would lose, this time in the eighth via knockout. That would be his second string of 4 straight losses and his record at this point in his last ten fights was 1-8-1, his lone win coming against Billy Stephan (KO 4). Taking 1965 off to make decisions about his future in the fight game, McMurray would return in 1966 with two straight victories over Bobby Stininato and Dancing Jackson. After splitting two fights against Willie Ray Richardson, McMurray would face Thad Spencer for the California State title, prior to Spencer's participation in the Heavyweight elimination tournament in just under 12 months time, which he won with Knockout in the seventh round, stunning the crowd. His first title defense was against Tony Alongi which ended in a Technical Draw with both fighters badly cut. His second defense in January 1967 was against Henry Clark who beats McMurray on points in 12 rounds. In March he would pad Floyd Patterson's record lossing in the first by KO. Rising young fighter Dave Zyglewicz (22-0-0 at the time of the fight) was his next opponent of note at the end of 1967, whom he losses to via decision after 10 rounds.

In March of 1968, McMurray began a murderous schedule which saw him fight some fearsome punchers to close his career, the first of these was against a rebounding Sonny Liston eager to prove he was still a force, loosing by KO in the fourth. Six months later he ponied up again, this time against young Boone Kirkman, whom he lost to by points after 10 rounds.

On the 29th of May he would fight California's next great Heavyweight, Ken Norton, whom he would lose to in his inimitable style, this time being KO'd in the seventh. Norton's record after this fight moved to 10-0-0 (9). At the turn of the decade McMurray's time was nearly done and a third round TKO loss to Boone Kirkman and a first round KO loss to Earnie Shavers sent McMurray into retirement.

Career Bouts:
1971-07-13 Earnie Shavers 28-2-0 L KO 1
1971-04-16 Pat Duncan 16-2-0 D PTS 10
1970-04-28 Boone Kirkman 20-1-0 L TKO 3
1969-11-19 Alvin (Blue) Lewis 20-3-0 L PTS 10
1969-09-18 Charlie Reno 4-3-0 W PTS 10
1969-05-29 Ken Norton 9-0-0 L KO 7
1969-04-15 Pat Stapleton 2-1-0 W KO 1
1968-09-19 Boone Kirkman 17-1-0 L PTS 10
1968-03-16 Sonny Liston 39-3-0 L KO 4
1967-11-22 Dave Zyglewicz 22-0-0 L PTS 10
1967-10-16 Fred Lewis 7-2-0 W KO 6
1967-03-30 Floyd Patterson 45-5-0 L KO 1
1967-01-17 Henry Clark 8-3-2 L PTS 12
1966-11-23 Tony Alongi 38-2-3 D TD 6
1966-09-13 Thad Spencer 29-4-0 W KO 7
1966-07-12 Willie Ray Richardson 15-4-0 W PTS 10
1966-04-20 Willie Ray Richardson 14-4-0 L KO 6
1966-03-15 Dancing Jackson 0-0-0 W KO 4
1966-02-01 Bobby Stininato 27-10-1 W PTS 10
1964-10-26 Elmer Rush 7-0-1 L KO 8
1964-10-10 Roger Rischer 23-8-2 L PTS 10
1964-08-04 Roger Rischer 21-8-2 L PTS 12
1964-07-01 Elmer Rush 5-0-1 L SD 10
1964-05-28 Elmer Rush 5-0-0 D PTS 10
1964-03-10 Charley Powell 24-8-3 L KO 3
1963-11-05 Eddie Machen 44-4-2 L KO 7
1963-09-03 Tod Herring 22-2-0 L PTS 10
1963-08-13 Billy Stephan 16-7-1 W KO 4
1963-07-10 Tiger John Collins 4-3-0 L PTS 10
1963-04-18 Tiger John Collins 3-2-0 W PTS 10
1963-03-21 George Logan 23-8-1 W KO 8
1962-11-27 Jimmy Fletcher 2-1-2 L KO 1
1962-06-18 Jerry Simmering 9-2-0 L PTS 10
1962-03-27 Paul Andrews 36-9-0 L PTS 10
1962-01-23 Eddie Jackson 4-5-1 W PTS 8
1961-11-14 Bob Tanner 4-1-0 W PTS 6
1961-10-23 Jackie Torme 12-4-1 W KO 3
1961-08-28 Bob Tanner 2-0-0 W PTS 6
1961-07-04 Jimmy Fletcher 2-0-1 W PTS 8
1961-04-25 Joe Sullivan 7-10-1 W PTS 8
1961-02-24 Tex Urbauer 0-2-0 W KO 4
1961-02-13 Joe Sullivan 7-9-1 W PTS 6
1960-11-18 Billy Fields 3-9-2 W PTS 6
1959-11-14 Eddie Jackson 2-2-1 L KO 2
1959-10-10 Freeman Hardin 0-0-0 W PTS 4
1959-10-05 Leroy (Roy) Smith 14-7-5 W PTS 6
1959-09-10 Johnny Hayden 17-7-0 L PTS 6
1959-05-16 Herbert Hair 1-3-0 L PTS 4
1959-04-17 Eddie Jackson 0-0-0 W PTS 4
1959-04-04 Andy Isaacs 0-3-0 W PTS 4

[cubedrum]

Anyone know offhand how many Shavers KOs sent guys into retirement?

Cube