Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[rlumpkin1@tampabay.rr.com]

Steve Renki Montreal Expos Spring Training

[DeweyintheHall]

Originally Posted by rlumpkin1@tampabay.rr.com

Steve Renki Montreal Expos Spring Training

Alias Steve Renko...

[Patsy Tebeau]

This was originally posted on my pre-mlb players thread by ukbaseballfan. I believe its the 1869 Washington Olympics team photo and from the list of names provided in the box score I'd be willing to bet that Val Robinson may very likely be pictured here.

[Patsy Tebeau]

Also kinda random but is it just me or does the guy in the top left seriously look like Tom York? I don't believe he was with the club though since he appears to have been with the Powhatan of Brooklyn in 1869

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by Patsy Tebeau

Also kinda random but is it just me or does the guy in the top left seriously look like Tom York? I don't believe he was with the club though since he appears to have been with the Powhatan of Brooklyn in 1869

Yes, similar, but York was not with the Olympics in 1870 either but the Troy Haymakers. The player at 8 o'clock appears to closely resemble Davy Force.

Here is a clean shaven 1867 image of Fergy Malone, who is also expected to be in the image, maybe in the clock position between Force and 6 o'clock.

The Reach who played for Washington in 1869 was not Al (busy with the Philadelphia Athletics) but his brother Bob also a Major Leaguer. The only image so far of him is later in life, attached.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by RUKen

Tim Keefe was a regular on the 1878 Westboro/Clinton team, and he played third base and outfield. I have not seen an image of Keefe without a large mustache, but the long face seems correct; I think it is likely that "Keefe, CF" on the Clinton team composite is Tim Keefe. Good find!

Here is further confirmation that Keefe is the Hall Of Famer and an alternate version of the image.

[cinemaodyssey]

Originally Posted by Patsy Tebeau

This was originally posted on my pre-mlb players thread by ukbaseballfan. I believe its the 1869 Washington Olympics team photo and from the list of names provided in the box score I'd be willing to bet that Val Robinson may very likely be pictured here.

This photo could also easily be the Olympics of Philadelphia and possibly earlier than 1869. It was featured on Heritage Auctions a few years ago (in which I was one of the bidders) and sadly contained no identification in any way to which city it represented. Any identifications made so far have been purely speculative in nature until we dig anything else up.

[Patsy Tebeau]

Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

This photo could also easily be the Olympics of Philadelphia and possibly earlier than 1869. It was featured on Heritage Auctions a few years ago (in which I was one of the bidders) and sadly contained no identification in any way to which city it represented. Any identifications made so far have been purely speculative in nature until we dig anything else up.

Actually it could be pretty much any ballclub called the Olympics. According to Bruce Allardice's research there were at least 90 clubs called the Olympics throughout the US in the pre-mlb era.

I think the guy pictured 2 down from top left kind of resembles Davy Force, definitely the eyes but I'm not entirely sure about the rest (the eyebrows look very different and the nose doesn't look exact but who knows if its photo quality or whatever).

If it is in fact Force, that would be a definite way to tell since he was with the Washington Olympics from 1867 to 1871.

[Patsy Tebeau]

I could speak with Bruce about this tonight as I have known him for a while now and he could maybe help us with this one

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by Patsy Tebeau

Actually it could be pretty much any ballclub called the Olympics. According to Bruce Allardice's research there were at least 90 clubs called the Olympics throughout the US in the pre-mlb era.

I think the guy pictured 2 down from top left kind of resembles Davy Force, definitely the eyes but I'm not entirely sure about the rest (the eyebrows look very different and the nose doesn't look exact but who knows if its photo quality or whatever).

If it is in fact Force, that would be a definite way to tell since he was with the Washington Olympics from 1867 to 1871.

Comparison of the player extracted from the Olympics composite (left) to the player identified as Force in the 1882 Buffalo team (right).

[Patsy Tebeau]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

Comparison of the player extracted from the Olympics composite (left) to the player identified as Force in the 1882 Buffalo team (right).

Seeing that shot of Force as a comparison has me more convinced that it's him now. The nose seems to look a lot more similar from this angle and the ears too.

[Patsy Tebeau]

I did this one nearly a year ago

[krantzbucks]

Charles Brittingham Burns colorized

[infieldfly]

Tweaked...

[Patsy Tebeau]

Some shots of the all-burgundy uniforms

[Patsy Tebeau]

I tried my best with this again, as it looks far better than my last attempt

[Patsy Tebeau]

I see he isn't on the list at least the one I found. Though the only known depiction of him is a drawing, like many of our 'found' players, I don't think it really provides a really greatly accurate view of what he actually looked like unlike some of the sketches we found that are likely based on actual photos that we still have yet to locate. Keep in mind it comes from the buchner gold coin cards that were essentially just copy and pastes of the same few faces with the occasional addition/removal of a mustache. We also have 'depictions' of Alamazoo Jennings and Frank Bell which are kinda the same as what I'd call this one and they're both listed as missing players.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by Patsy Tebeau

I see he isn't on the list at least the one I found. Though the only known depiction of him is a drawing, like many of our 'found' players, I don't think it really provides a really greatly accurate view of what he actually looked like unlike some of the sketches we found that are likely based on actual photos that we still have yet to locate. Keep in mind it comes from the buchner gold coin cards that were essentially just copy and pastes of the same few faces with the occasional addition/removal of a mustache. We also have 'depictions' of Alamazoo Jennings and Frank Bell which are kinda the same as what I'd call this one and they're both listed as missing players.

I've gone 'round and 'round with myself about Crowley over the years. I've kept him off the list because, while the Buchner cards are *generally* generic, their depictions actually bear a passing resemblance to the players listed on the card. Dan Brouthers looks passably like Dan Brouthers, Ned (or Ed, if you prefer) Willamson bears some resemblance to the player. The cartoon of Jennings, on the other hand, I don't believe bears any resemblance to the actual person (of course, we don't have a photo or studio wood cut, so that's just a guess).

Perhaps I should add some nuance to the list and re-add players like Crowley with a "need better" notation. There are a few others who similarly have no image I would consider a true likeness, either due to poor image quality (Alonzo Breitenstein or Walter Prince), low resolution (George Fletcher or Flip Lafferty), or poor likeness (until recently, Marty Honan--thanks, Cinemaodyssey!). Then there are others, like Denny Clare or Ed Halbriter, for whom we only have photos from a time long past their playing days.

I'm happy to make whatever adjustments may be most helpful as we try to locate the remaining missing players.

[Chickazoola]

As the discoverer of some of the more dubious quality images, I concur that it would be great to find something higher quality and there is always the hope that something better will pop up. I recently found a nice photo of George "Burt" Goetz that was an upgrade over the generic cartoon image I had found several years ago.

On the subject of Clare, he is in this 1884 Brooklyn Stars team photo courtesy CinemaOdyssey. Rrster and team info appears in the 1884 Brooklyn papers. It also features John Bass, and James McGovern (listed as John), who is the younger brother of a 1874 one gamer I finally ID'd named Thomas McGovern. James was on the roster of the 1884 Altoona Unions, but never played in the majors.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by Chickazoola

As the discoverer of some of the more dubious quality images, I concur that it would be great to find something higher quality and there is always the hope that something better will pop up. I recently found a nice photo of George "Burt" Goetz that was an upgrade over the generic cartoon image I had found several years ago.

On the subject of Clare, he is in this 1884 Brooklyn Stars team photo courtesy CinemaOdyssey. Rrster and team info appears in the 1884 Brooklyn papers. It also features John Bass, and James McGovern (listed as John), who is the younger brother of a 1874 one gamer I finally ID'd named Thomas McGovern. James was on the roster of the 1884 Altoona Unions, but never played in the majors.

The allocation of players into the 2 upper rows appears to be somewhat unclear. As only 4 are named in the back/top row would that be the 3 individuals not in uniform plus the tallest player on the right of them as we look at the image.

There is also contradictory information in respect of the date. You state 1884 Brooklyn Stars team photo yet the caption above the image states early 1870s?