Schedule generator issue corrected in patch?

[Andreas Raht]

Originally Posted by Carplos

The 120 gms with 8 against 15 other opponents isn't asymmetrical and it's doing everything right--two 4 game series against each team--but except for one team in the league getting the splits right (which it did pre-patch, as well), every other season series is all at home for one team.

You're right...
I've fixed it now (finally). Too late for the 1.0.1 patch, I'm sorry. But it will be in the next patch. Here are links to reports for a league that I've just created (154 games, 8 teams):

http://ootpdevelopments.com/stuff/Fi...gue%20Home.htm

http://ootpdevelopments.com/stuff/Fi...Evaluation.htm

Hope they are bug free now - if not, please let me know.

[Carplos]

I don't believe it was listed as fixed. The idea that a team will play an equal amount of games at home/road was fixed. The idea that a team will play against another team an equal amount of home/road games is not.

Ah, I could have been getting confused then--I didn't seem to have the former problem, pre-patch.

You're right...
I've fixed it now (finally). Too late for the 1.0.1 patch, I'm sorry. But it will be in the next patch.

Well, that's good. Disappointing that I'll have to hold off on certain setups for a while (unless I can figure out some workarounds), but at least it's fixed.

Thanks.

[battists]

OK, now that I've damaged my brain by reading that thread, please note that I'm considering this issue "resolved," at least until the next patch comes out.

Meanwhile, if there are other, unrelated bugs buried in this thread, I urge you to make sure they are still an issue with the new patch, and then post them as separate threads.

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

You're right...
I've fixed it now (finally). Too late for the 1.0.1 patch, I'm sorry. But it will be in the next patch. Here are links to reports for a league that I've just created (154 games, 8 teams):

http://ootpdevelopments.com/stuff/Fi...gue%20Home.htm

http://ootpdevelopments.com/stuff/Fi...Evaluation.htm

Hope they are bug free now - if not, please let me know.

Thanks for all your hard work!

Can I get a feature 'down the road' that will allow me to define spring training games, regular season games and then add my own playoff games as playoff games.

I.E. Simming College Baseball with Regionals and Super Regionals and World Series - would be nice to be able to do this

[battists]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

Thanks for all your hard work!

Can I get a feature 'down the road' that will allow me to define spring training games, regular season games and then add my own playoff games as playoff games.

I.E. Simming College Baseball with Regionals and Super Regionals and World Series - would be nice to be able to do this

You can already do some of this via the schedule editor. Download the game guide and do a search for schedule editor...

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by battists

You can already do some of this via the schedule editor. Download the game guide and do a search for schedule editor...

I didn't think I could change the post-season schedule ??


I'll check it out - thanks!

[david limbaugh]

I checked the game guide and it is basically the same way previous OOTP versions was (I have had them all :-) - you can't change the post-season schedule - just the series length in advance via game setup....

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

I checked the game guide and it is basically the same way previous OOTP versions was (I have had them all :-) - you can't change the post-season schedule...

That's not correct though. You COULD edit the playoff schedule in previous versions. While you couldn't change the matchups, you could change when and where the games in a given series were played.

So, if you wanted to change the home field rotation in a best-of-7 series from 2-3-2- to something like 2-2-1-1-1 or 3-4 or even 7-0, you could do that in OOTP6/6.5 (I think in 5 as well).

This really ought to be put back in. Post-season scheduling for the World Series was very different in earlier years.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Carplos

...so I'm not sure what your point actually is.

My point is that oddball schedules are quite common in the real-world. It's only a question of the degree of oddness.

Originally Posted by Carplos

Here is why I think there's still a problem, or I'm doing something wrong. It's a one league, 8-team, 154 game schedule.

The number of matchups against each opponent are different. Seems like a problem, yes?

Well, the truth is, depending very much on the criteria selected for a schedule, it may not be possible to get the same number of games against each opponent. The 8-team, 154 game schedule is a great starting point for discussion because it's a simple setup but which illustrates quite well the complexities involved even in what most would term an easy scenario.

So, you have 11 games against each opponent at home, ideally. First question to ask: how many series should that be broken down into? Three series? Four series? Five series? What should it be? For a three series split, it could be 5-3-3 or 4-4-3; for a four series split it could be 4-3-2-2 or 3-3-3-2 or 5-2-2-2. A five series split would be 3-2-2-2-2. Related to the number of series question (which directly affects the distribution of series lengths) is whether or not a team should play the same number of series against each opponent or will some variation be allowed. And what about away series? Should the same team play one number of series at home and a different number when visiting that same opponent? The answer chosen will affect the result.

Next question: how long should the schedule be in terms of calendar length? This question is important because it directly affects the series counts and how many of what kind of series would be needed.

Now let's look at how these factors interconnect and affect each other.

Let's say we go for a four series split, preferrably 3-3-3-2 for most, and a 25-week season. A 25-week season is a good calendar length to choose since it would leave 21 off days (175 days - 154 games = 21). In the majors, the normal rate of series occurrence is two series per week per club. A 25-week season would then have 50 possible series to place, or to think of it another way, 50 slots into which series can be slotted. However, if we have an All-Star Game, that eats up one slot leaving us with 49 slots for series.

But, we have chosen a four series split in terms of individual matchups. That means a club plays 8 series against each opponent (four home and four away); 8 series x 7 opponents = 56 series. But we only have 49 slots - what to do? In order to squeeze that number of series in, it means some of the weeks during the season will have to fit in three series instead of two. By subtracting 49 from 56, we can see that 7 weeks during the season will need to have three series played during that week. This means a series breakdown for that week of 2-2-3; in other words a 2-game series for Mon-Tue and Wed-Thu and a 3-game series for Fri-Sat-Sun.

So let's now look at the series distribution played by a given team. It's ideally 3-3-3-2 at home and away against each opponent. In total, that means a club plays a total of 42 3-game series and 14 2-game series. Let's assume for the moment that that series distribution is acceptable (it lacks any 4-game series and has a lot of 2-game series). But we know that we need 7 weeks with three series played in those weeks, in a 2-2-3 series breakdown. That means we need at least 14 2-game series (2 per three series week times 7 weeks). Our initial breakdown of series for a team has 14 2-game series, so this looks fine, right?

Not necessarily.

By design, we had one 2-game series per opponent at home and one away. But we need to pack in back-to-back 2-game series in those three series weeks, so depending on the flow of opponents it may not be possible to do this within the given 2-game series as it might require unrealistic road trips or it might require a home-and-home arrangement, which is also not realistic. The solution to this is to increase the number of 2-game series a team plays be altering a few of the series breakdowns against an opponent by changing it from 3-3-3-2 into 4-3-2-2. But this naturally adds more 2-game series to the mix, which, under present-day conditions, is not particularly realistic since MLB uses very few 2-game series.

Now, what happens if we changed out minds and decided on a three series split against all opponents? Let's say we opt for a 4-4-3 as the starting point. This means each club plays a total of six series against each league rival, or a total of 42 series (6 series x 7 opponents). But 42 series is well below the number of slots we have to fill (49) in a 25 week schedule.

Let's try a mixed approach. Three clubs with a four series split and four clubs in a three series split. For home games, it'd end up looking like this:

3-3-3-2
3-3-3-2
3-3-3-2
4-4-3
4-4-3
4-4-3
4-4-3

That's 24 series, which when the away series are added gets us to 48 series. That's still not enough. Plus there's the disparity between clubs in terms of how many series are played against each, and in such a simple league alignment MLB would almost certainly insist on an equitable distribution of series under modern-day preferences.

As if all of the preceding weren't enough, then you could throw in the modern-day MLB approach.

Let's say we want to emulate MLB's example and reduce 2-game series to a bare minimum and emphasize 3-game series. The easiest way to do this is to use uneven home-away splits. If a club plays one opponent in 4 series at home and alternates between 3 and 4 series at home against the rest, you could get a series breakdown like this:

3-3-3-2
4-3-3
3-3-3-3
4-3-3
3-3-3-3
4-3-3
3-3-3-3

Overall, one opponent is played 11 games at home and 11 games away; three are played 10 at home and 12 away, and the other three are played 12 at home and 10 away. But using 12 and 10 games, these are broken down into 3- and 4-game series very easily. The total series distribution comes in at 2 2-game series, 42 3-game series, and 6 4-game series, for a total of 50 series. The distribution of series is very good, and the total number is only one over the number of slots (49). So only one week would require three series to be played.

However, since the two 2-game series are against the same opponent, they both can't be used in the three series week since it would mean the opponents play a home-and-home event. So one of the other series splits against an opponent must be changed to include a 2-game series. The easiest way to achive this is to turn a 12 game matchup from 3-3-3-3 into a 4-3-3-2 breakdown. Now the 2-game series from that and the 2-game series from the 11 games can be put back to back in the three series week.

All that said, some may not like the fact that teams do not play opponents and equal number of times at home as they do away; some would prefer unrealistic (by today's standards) series counts and distributions instead. But others might prefer to echo the scheduling rules and methodologies of today.

And as if all that wasn't enough to digest, note that we haven't even begun to lay out the series into an actual schedule yet - we're still trying to find the optimal numbers and distributions to work with. You still have to take whatever number and distribution of series you choose and place those into a coherent order so that teams do not play too many games in a row at home or away; that teams do not play too many days in a row (current MLB rules limt teams to 20 consecutive days of play); and that teams don't play the same club twice in the same road trip or home stand.

Note that we haven't even mentioned the idea of weekend balancing yet.

In modern day schedules, weekend series are distributed as equitable as possible between opponents; ideally, each club should have one weekend series at home against each opponent. This naturally will be affected by the league alignment; MLB itself cannot completely follow this rule given that it has interleague play and different structures between the leagues. But back in the day when the AL had 14 teams split into two 7-team divisions, for example, it was possible to distribute weekend series equitably, and this was done (a club played exactly one weekend series and home and one away against each opponent: a 26-week season meant 13 weekends at home, and there were 13 opponents in total).

Now when laying out the actual games in the schedule, you still have all the previously mentioned restrictions to work around, plus you've got to try and balance the weekends between all the clubs (a single division 8-team league would undoubtedly try to do so precisely because the structure is so basic).

Put all of the aforementioned items together and you can see how even an apparently simple 8-team league playing 154 games is actually quite a complex problem to solve.

A schedule is like a gigantic jigsaw puzzle - but the big difference is that a jigsaw puzzle only has one correct solution. A schedule can in fact have more than one correct solution. Not only that, but as you change the starting points for the schedule you change what the solutions might be.

[Carplos]

The number of matchups against each opponent are different. Seems like a problem, yes?

I'm not trying to be an ass here, but have you actually been reading my whole posts and correspondence with Andreas?

My problem has never been the number of matchups being different. Look a little bit closer at the evaluation I linked. I probably shouldn't have used "even" in my initial posts, but it was due to the schedule alignment I was initially talking about.

(For that matter, I've said like three times now that for the 16 team, 120 game schedule, it is producing an equal number of games against each opponent every time I tried it.)

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

That's not correct though. You COULD edit the playoff schedule in previous versions. While you couldn't change the matchups, you could change when and where the games in a given series were played.

So, if you wanted to change the home field rotation in a best-of-7 series from 2-3-2- to something like 2-2-1-1-1 or 3-4 or even 7-0, you could do that in OOTP6/6.5 (I think in 5 as well).

This really ought to be put back in. Post-season scheduling for the World Series was very different in earlier years.

The actual matchups is what I have always wanted to changed. I had put ootp6.5 on the shelf because of the promise of more teams/divisions with ootp 2006

I want to set up 3 'leagues'

NCAA - College Baseball at ML level

JUCO - at AAA level

High School - at AA level

and

Little League - at A level

With random cities for JUCO and High School and Little League and major conferences/schools in NCAA

but why bother if you can't mimic post-season format of NCAA (i.e. double-elimination regionals and super-regionals and two-pool World Series)

See what I mean?

[battists]

It seems like the issue originally mentioned here has been resolved for the next patch, so I'm going to close this guy out. If there are additional issues that need to be discussed, please start a separate thread!

Much appreciated!

Steve