OOTP vs STRAT-O-MATIC

[USF]

Here is how the SOMBB bullpen logic works.



#1.
You set up various logics for the computer to use ie., A through H in this example.

#2
For each Logic you specify the Outs in the game you want the logic to correspond too ie., 24 to 26 is for the 9th inning closer situation & also the SCORE Scenario of the game.

#3.
For each Logic you specify what type of batter it applies for Left, Right, Switch, Reverse L, Reverse R (Reverse meaning a Lefty hitter better versus Lefties)

#4. Then you can decide to FORCE regardless of situation either a Yes or No. Usually reserved for CL situations only.

#5. Then you can label each Logic ie., LOGIC ID = A = SAVE GAME

Then what is cool is that you can for each of the LOGICS specify the PECKING order of RPs you want to appear in that scenario ie. This is very helpful when facing a Lefty batter and ensuring you don't want your worst RP vs. LEFTY to come in 1st or 2nd etc..

I hope this quick summary is helpful.

It was confusing at first launch but, I am pretty sure people that play SOMBB try to use it now.

Jason

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by USF

Also is widely abused in league play. So the + is also a negative

Because of the small sample size, a season's worth of L/R data can be very misleading. Generic splits, as I recall from a lengthy article I read somewhere, are probably closer to real abilities (in most cases). But I'll let the experts duke it out.

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by USF

Here is how the SOMBB bullpen logic works.



#1.
You set up various logics for the computer to use ie., A through H in this example.

#2
For each Logic you specify the Outs in the game you want the logic to correspond too ie., 24 to 26 is for the 9th inning closer situation & also the SCORE Scenario of the game.

#3.
For each Logic you specify what type of batter it applies for Left, Right, Switch, Reverse L, Reverse R (Reverse meaning a Lefty hitter better versus Lefties)

#4. Then you can decide to FORCE regardless of situation either a Yes or No. Usually reserved for CL situations only.

#5. Then you can label each Logic ie., LOGIC ID = A = SAVE GAME

Then what is cool is that you can for each of the LOGICS specify the PECKING order of RPs you want to appear in that scenario ie. This is very helpful when facing a Lefty batter and ensuring you don't want your worst RP vs. LEFTY to come in 1st or 2nd etc..

I hope this quick summary is helpful.

It was confusing at first launch but, I am pretty sure people that play SOMBB try to use it now.

Jason

Action PC Baseball also allows the user more control over bullpen usage. Kind of like what you described here. OOTP could definitely be improved in this area.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

I haven't seen anyone discuss lefty/right splits. Strat-O-Matic if far superior there - otherwise OOTP is much better bang for the buck.

What is superior about Strat's handling of splits?

[Elendil]

Back in the late 80s, my brother and I played SOM so much our mother threw the game away. I was an early OOTP adopter, and I have to say that for the last 8-9 editions of OOTP, OOTP blows away SOM on almost every dimension. Want to replay a single season? OOTP can do that. Want to run a crazy fictional league on Mars? OOTP can do that. Want to start an MLB league now and then let it develop organically with realistic financials? OOTP can do that.

Some say SOM is "more accurate" for single-season replays, but from the perspective of a statistician, it is a somewhat misleading form of accuracy. SOM will give a pitcher a low BABIP in a year if that's what the pitcher actually received that year. But we know that pitchers, with few exceptions, don't control BABIP. So SOM will replay a season pretty closely with the "right" proportions of popouts, hits allowed, etc., but won't actually let a season replay as it "could have" played out had pitchers not been unlucky with their fielding, say. In terms of big-picture realism, OOTP actually has SOM beat, because OOTP accords better with baseball theory (how we know the game actually works). I still have a sentimental attachment to SOM and maybe I'll pick up the card game at some point to play with my daughter, but the only game I would play for myself is OOTP.

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

What is superior about Strat's handling of splits?

It is based on actual performance, as opposed to being random, so lefties who really cannot hit lefties will perform poorly in SOM based on the real splits.

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Because of the small sample size, a season's worth of L/R data can be very misleading. Generic splits, as I recall from a lengthy article I read somewhere, are probably closer to real abilities (in most cases). But I'll let the experts duke it out.

In some cases, I suppose that is true, but there are extremes that OOTP will ignore (i.e Andy Van Slyke comes to mind)

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

It is based on actual performance, as opposed to being random, so lefties who really cannot hit lefties will perform poorly in SOM based on the real splits.

I did not realize OOTP's splits were random.

[RchW]

Not sure I understand this random thing. Do batter pitcher ratings not produce the results? My long time leagues have seemingly excellent (realistic) splits vs the era they are set up in.

[swampdragon]

Without knowing for sure, I think OOTP uses generic splits, and there's a case to be made that 90% of the time those are more predictive anyway, and they can't be exploited like small sample size splits can.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by RchW

Not sure I understand this random thing. Do batter pitcher ratings not produce the results? My long time leagues have seemingly excellent (realistic) splits vs the era they are set up in.

When you create a historical game with OOTP if you select the option for random splits, the game will definitely have excellent (realistic) splits vs the era they are set up in. They just won't be player specific. Think of everyone's favorite Detroit Tiger Anthony Gose in 2015. He hit .265 and had a OBP of .330 against righties(126 games). Against lefties he hit an amazing .192 with a spectacular .272 OBP (47 games). So you can clearly see why the Tigers platooned him with Rajai Davis playing against lefties. Strat will rate him accordingly. OOTP will assign him random splits, so there's no guaranty he will be so awful against pitchers that throw with the wrong arm. Hope that makes sense.

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by RchW

We should provide detail to Matt and Markus.

Well, the play-by-play would be one. It really is awesome how they do it. It's team specific, dynamic, and very colorful. You can give the announcers names. The actual real life play-by-play announcers for each team are included in the game.

There are preset anecdotes about players, coaches and all personel that are incorporated into the text; the best example I can give is: imagine if the news stories in OOTP where part of the in game play-by-play. It also updates you on scores and specific playoff races as the season moves along. It's very easy to modify it as well.

I wish OOTPs play-by-play could have that much richness to it, but I'm not sure its possible.

I must admit though, I haven't used the full pbp option in OOTP in a long time because I use 3D exclusively. In the case of 3D, having a pbp module in OOTP may be a moot point now because you actually see the plays happen, a la Earl Weaver Baseball which had no play-by-play

Its also easier to batch select then modify players, copy and paste players to different teams and leagues, or you can copy an entire team and move it. (imagine if you were able to copy your favorite fictional team and paste it to any other league or season)

(BTW, this was the hardest thing I had to get past when switching from SOM to OOTP. That lack of functionality in OOTP drove me bonkers. I obviously got past it though )

SOM also has an undo/redo feature for just about anything you do in the game. It saves your butt at times. I wish OOTP had that. There's also that great "delete last play" function for when you screw up a pitching change or substitution, but its also too tempting to use for cheating!

All that said, I'm not sure its possible to have all those features in OOTP based on the way the game functions. OOTP is an entirely different animal. It took me a long time to realize that.

[Craig Scarborough]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

without knowing for sure, i think ootp uses generic splits, and there's a case to be made that 90% of the time those are more predictive anyway, and they can't be exploited like small sample size splits can.

yes!

[RchW]

Originally Posted by David Watts

When you create a historical game with OOTP if you select the option for random splits, the game will definitely have excellent (realistic) splits vs the era they are set up in. They just won't be player specific. Think of everyone's favorite Detroit Tiger Anthony Gose in 2015. He hit .265 and had a OBP of .330 against righties(126 games). Against lefties he hit an amazing .192 with a spectacular .272 OBP (47 games). So you can clearly see why the Tigers platooned him with Rajai Davis playing against lefties. Strat will rate him accordingly. OOTP will assign him random splits, so there's no guaranty he will be so awful against pitchers that throw with the wrong arm. Hope that makes sense.

All my players are fictional so I can only assume their ratings determine the splits which by my analysis are accurate via statistical output , therefore, not generic. Picking nits I know, but when comparing games we should consider a new player may be mislead by incorrect claims that something works only one way.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by RchW

All my players are fictional so I can only assume their ratings determine the splits which by my analysis are accurate via statistical output , therefore, not generic. Picking nits I know, but when comparing games we should consider a new player may be mislead by incorrect claims that something works only one way.

Just picking nits but aren't all fictional players just random in nature?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by RchW

All my players are fictional so I can only assume their ratings determine the splits which by my analysis are accurate via statistical output , therefore, not generic. Picking nits I know, but when comparing games we should consider a new player may be mislead by incorrect claims that something works only one way.

You may want to pick your nits with Markus then. Go create a historical game. The very first screen of the setup wizard has a checkbox that reads Generate random L/R Splits. You have the option to select whether you want the game to create proper lefty/righty splits or no ratings at all. We should also consider that a new user, one that is coming to the game from Strat or one of the other replay games, may want to know how OOTP goes about creating splits for historical player and by historical I mean players that we can prove actually spent time on earth.

[USF]

Originally Posted by David Watts

You may want to pick your nits with Markus then. Go create a historical game. The very first screen of the setup wizard has a checkbox that reads Generate random L/R Splits. You have the option to select whether you want the game to create proper lefty/righty splits or no ratings at all. We should also consider that a new user, one that is coming to the game from Strat or one of the other replay games, may want to know how OOTP goes about creating splits for historical player and by historical I mean players that we can prove actually spent time on earth.

So this is a good reason why Strat is very good for replays. So are we saying here for the 2017 release of the OOTP game that the splits for L/R for the REAL MLB players are all random? I don't play current and only have played fictional in OOTP.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by USF

So this is a good reason why Strat is very good for replays. So are we saying here for the 2017 release of the OOTP game that the splits for L/R for the REAL MLB players are all random? I don't play current and only have played fictional in OOTP.

Not in the current MLB rosters, though there they're generally projections based somewhat on past tendencies. In historical though, yes they're random.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by USF

So this is a good reason why Strat is very good for replays. So are we saying here for the 2017 release of the OOTP game that the splits for L/R for the REAL MLB players are all random? I don't play current and only have played fictional in OOTP.

They are if you use the historical setup wizard--play historical. Not sure about the MLB Quickstart. Guessing with as much work as the folks that make the quickstart put in, the splits are pretty darn accurate.

Please know I'm not criticizing OOTP's method in any way shape or form. I think it I actually prefer the generic. Heck, I use the combo of recalc and player development when I play historical/random debut, so my games take on a more "what if" feel from day one. I can say this without a doubt, I would much rather OOTP use generic splits and offer me every historical season from 1900 forward, than have OOTP painstakingly create each season by hand and sell me those seasons one by one. Oh and then there's the whole "Career Play" aspect of OOTP. Let's face it, "Career Play" is OOTP's drop the mic feature.

[USF]

Originally Posted by David Watts

They are if you use the historical setup wizard--play historical. Not sure about the MLB Quickstart. Guessing with as much work as the folks that make the quickstart put in, the splits are pretty darn accurate.

Please know I'm not criticizing OOTP's method in any way shape or form. I think it I actually prefer the generic. Heck, I use the combo of recalc and player development when I play historical/random debut, so my games take on a more "what if" feel from day one. I can say this without a doubt, I would much rather OOTP use generic splits and offer me every historical season from 1900 forward, than have OOTP painstakingly create each season by hand and sell me those seasons one by one. Oh and then there's the whole "Career Play" aspect of OOTP. Let's face it, "Career Play" is OOTP's drop the mic feature.

Can this be the reason Stratomatic charges so much for their season rosters? Especially considering how hard it would be to go back and recreated these splits vs. L/R. I know they have mentioned it before but, I never had anything to compare it against in terms of another game. Just thinking out loud.