Awful Trades - Page 2

Qeltar · 04-25-2018, 02:27 PM

"in RL it's a negotiation and both sides are trying to "scr#w" the other as much as possible. neither side is interested in helping the other.. it's 100% selfish motivations and if it helps both teams it's just an accident due to dynamics of trading."

Sorry, I think that's not merely excessively cynical, but not even true.

There are only 30 of these guys and they have to work together, often for years at a time. Sure they will try to make trades that are advantageous, but they aren't going to deliberately negotiate in bad faith. It's a small world and word gets around quickly.

"there's only so much a computer ai can do in regard to email offers without being too easy."

As I said, I don't care about the lopsided offers. But no offer should ever be sent that the AI isn't willing to accept or at least take reasonable offers on.

The game can pretty easily check if a specific trade is one the AI would agree to on the "Initiate Trade" screen. It can also check that guys aren't offered that are so valuable that it is impossible or nearly impossible to trade for them.

Both of the scenarios I laid out above do not represent bargaining in good faith. No GM would ever make a specific trade offer and then when you go to discuss it, say he needs someone else added in. That's not driving a hard bargain, it's being a jerk and wasting everyone's time.

" if you discuss it instead of jumping on it, you give the guy time to rethink his mistake."

I did discuss it.

He offered me a very good SP: Aaron Nola. Not chicken feed, but not Clayton Kershaw either.

As a test, I offered him:

1. My top-rated player, who is a top-caliber RP that everyone in the league has been trying to get from me.
2. My #1 drafted player in the most recent amateur draft.
3. My #1 draft pick for NEXT year's draft.

Nope, no deal.

Sorry, if a GM values a guy that much, the game is just wasting my time PMing me to ask if I am interested. And yes, the program can quite easily check this, it's just relatively simple math.

Qeltar · 04-26-2018, 11:49 PM

For the flip side on awful trades, why is the AI willing to take a guy off my hands who just got diagnosed with a 9-month arm injury and give me a small prospect to boot? He does have a locked in 3-year contract after this at a low rate, but he's very mediocre, and not super young (28) so I can't see any real GM doing this.

Feels like I'd be cheating to take it...

igor7111 · 04-27-2018, 02:16 PM

I'm sorry to insert a noobie question here, but how do you trade for draft picks. I can get to the opp team's minor league system but I don't see how to trade for or trade away draft picks. Any help?

stealofhome · 04-27-2018, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igor7111

I'm sorry to insert a noobie question here, but how do you trade for draft picks. I can get to the opp team's minor league system but I don't see how to trade for or trade away draft picks. Any help?

There's an option you have to turn on in one of the setup screens that allows draft pick trading.

italyprof · 04-28-2018, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Yeah, exactly. I remember reading an article a few years ago about the trade offers Luhnow and the Astros were making when they were trying to trade Lucas Harrell in 2013.

They were asking for like Gerrit Cole and similar players. So basically team's top young pitching prospects for a player who was basically a 0.5* guy who'd had one flukily decent year the year before.

So this is just what real teams are doing. Not sure why OOTP teams should be different.

Especially on the initial offer, why would you ever not offer less than you're actually willing to take or give? It wouldn't make sense. The offers are just a starting point, basically a way to say, are you interested in trading/trading for this guy? Ok, well let's talk then.

Yeah I almost always respond "discuss trade". I remove my valuable player fromthe deal, scan their rosters, see who I might want and gove it whirl or two. If it can't work I let it go. But I rarely go with ibitial playrrs proposed.

Qeltar · 05-06-2018, 05:57 PM

Okay, how's this for silly?

The Blue Jays GM sends me a note asking if I'm interested in an SP. He's nothing special, 1.5 stars current, 3 stars potential. Sure, let's see what they want for him.

"You have no player who makes this deal work!"

Really.

I put up Machado.

"This might be the worst offer I have ever seen in my career."

LOL, okay. So what do you need on top of one of the very best players in the game to get your precious pitcher?

"You have no player who makes this deal work!"

So I am really laughing at this point. I offer to retain 50% of Machado's salary.

"This might be the worst offer I have ever seen in my career."

So who would make it work for him?

Well, if I trade him Machado, eat half of Machado's salary for three years, and ALSO trade him my 24-year-old 2B who just won Rookie of the Year (and is signed to a long-term contract at very reasonable rates)... then he will part with his pitcher.

I'm really going to have to think this one over...

I hope the devs consider putting in some filters so that GMs who value certain players this much don't offer to trade them. I actually can't recall ever seeing a player on another team's "untouchables" list -- maybe it isn't implemented yet.

PS Bonus points: the message to me referred to him as a "cheap starting pitcher."

NCBeachBum · 05-06-2018, 08:00 PM

The real trick IRL is to send the other side 2000-word text messages until they give you whatever you want to make it stop,

Clavette · 05-07-2018, 08:09 AM

Id like to see these ai trade offers get refined a little more realistically in the future. Out of 100 offers i typically get 1 reasonable offer.

Seems quite outta whack to me

Reggie · 05-07-2018, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeltar

Okay, how's this for silly?

The Blue Jays GM sends me a note asking if I'm interested in an SP. He's nothing special, 1.5 stars current, 3 stars potential. Sure, let's see what they want for him.

"You have no player who makes this deal work!"

Really.

I put up Machado.

"This might be the worst offer I have ever seen in my career."

LOL, okay. So what do you need on top of one of the very best players in the game to get your precious pitcher?

"You have no player who makes this deal work!"

So I am really laughing at this point. I offer to retain 50% of Machado's salary.

"This might be the worst offer I have ever seen in my career."

So who would make it work for him?

Well, if I trade him Machado, eat half of Machado's salary for three years, and ALSO trade him my 24-year-old 2B who just won Rookie of the Year (and is signed to a long-term contract at very reasonable rates)... then he will part with his pitcher.

I'm really going to have to think this one over...

I hope the devs consider putting in some filters so that GMs who value certain players this much don't offer to trade them. I actually can't recall ever seeing a player on another team's "untouchables" list -- maybe it isn't implemented yet.

PS Bonus points: the message to me referred to him as a "cheap starting pitcher."

I agree that the lopsided offers aren't that big of a deal. I prefer to work at a deal anyways instead of having a perfect trade handed to me.

As far as what you are saying here, I also agree with most of it. In the end it looks like he actually did have an idea of what he would accept. I'd prefer when selecting "make this work now" that the offer he finally decided he would take ( as ridiculous as the price was ) showed up. Maybe I could talk him down to something more reasonable or just write him off as a loon. But him offering a trade and then saying there is no combination of things you could do to make this work...just seems silly.

Qeltar · 05-07-2018, 08:56 AM

I actually like that they programmed the AI so some GMs have very different ideas on what players are worth. It's realistic and makes trying to forge a deal more interesting.

But I don't know that these GMs would go around dangling their pet favorites as trade bait.

Earlier I was trying to work a trade for an RF from the Miami area as I am trying to spur local interest. I offered an RF from my organization, roughly the same age, very similar stats -- actually, my guy was better in far more categories than his was. Not only was this trade not interesting to him, he considered it an "insult." (I really hate that phrase and wish they'd remove it. It's just unprofessional and is used too often in situations where it makes no sense.) He valued his RF way, way above his actual value, and I thought that was cool. As long as he doesn't offer him to me in a trade.

Bobble · 05-07-2018, 11:31 AM

I always feel like the AI GMs are this guy. "Oh, you want me to sweeten the deal?" <makes sprinkling gesture> "Alright, how about NO starting pitcher, NO starting lineup batter, and a half-star reliever?"

BBGiovanni · 05-07-2018, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baseballman2K5

If you really work with a team, through "make this trade work now!" button to figure out who they like and swapping out package players...you'd be surprised what you can finally agree upon for a player you once thought would be untouchable

I like to switch to OSA scouting to find these kind of guys. Often guys OSA loves are attractive to the AI so their next offer is better. Just have to be careful your scout isn't way off on his evaluation...

TheMaus2 · 05-07-2018, 02:51 PM

If you want offers to stop on a certain player just put him on the Untouchable list.

Orcin · 05-07-2018, 03:05 PM

And there is also a "not interested" list to stop the AI from offering you a player in multiple deals.

Reggie · 05-07-2018, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

And there is also a "not interested" list to stop the AI from offering you a player in multiple deals.

I used that for the first time not long ago. What a relief it was to stop the same team trying to dump the same guy on me in between every game.

Qeltar · 05-09-2018, 01:40 PM

I wonder if it's a weakness in the AI or a deliberate decision to make AI GMs relatively unresponsive to injuries or injury-related lineup holes (to prevent the human player from taking advantage.) As a bit of a wheeler-dealer I have noticed:

1. The AI doesn't seem to care about the injury status of my players, it will happily trade for them even with severe injuries. (I don't do this, to keep things more realistic.)

2. The AI doesn't devalue its own players much when they have serious injuries. Even pitchers with TJ, they seem to assume they will be good as new afterwards.

3. The AI doesn't seem to get more "desperate" to fill holes in their lineups. For example, the Cubs in my game traded away Almora after they signed Blackmon. Then he got hurt. Their main lineup now features a 1/2 star scrub in CF on a non-rebuilding team, but every attempt by me to tempt them with one of my MLB-ready outfield prospects has been rebuffed in what feels the same way as if Blackmon were still healthy.

Ty Cobb · 05-09-2018, 03:02 PM

Happens often. On the other side of the coin...sometimes, it's an invitation to sucker the AI big time.

Qeltar · 05-09-2018, 05:57 PM

Does it? Okay thanks, maybe it's just dependent on circumstances that haven't arisen yet for me.

WIUPIKE · 05-09-2018, 08:02 PM

To stop the are in you interested in that guy emails is to remove all the information in the team need section. It has been mentioned in another thread that the AI catches a player that matches your team need and you only get that email when they can't find a one for one or 2 for 1 deal that works for the AI.

zdubbya13 · 05-12-2018, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie

I find I get better offers when I define what I want in the team needs section..and specify I don't want dumpster fires.

This is what I've started doing and I've noticed the quality of the trades that get proposed to me has gone up.

04-25-2018, 02:27 PM	#21
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	"in RL it's a negotiation and both sides are trying to "scr#w" the other as much as possible. neither side is interested in helping the other.. it's 100% selfish motivations and if it helps both teams it's just an accident due to dynamics of trading." Sorry, I think that's not merely excessively cynical, but not even true. There are only 30 of these guys and they have to work together, often for years at a time. Sure they will try to make trades that are advantageous, but they aren't going to deliberately negotiate in bad faith. It's a small world and word gets around quickly. "there's only so much a computer ai can do in regard to email offers without being too easy." As I said, I don't care about the lopsided offers. But no offer should ever be sent that the AI isn't willing to accept or at least take reasonable offers on. The game can pretty easily check if a specific trade is one the AI would agree to on the "Initiate Trade" screen. It can also check that guys aren't offered that are so valuable that it is impossible or nearly impossible to trade for them. Both of the scenarios I laid out above do not represent bargaining in good faith. No GM would ever make a specific trade offer and then when you go to discuss it, say he needs someone else added in. That's not driving a hard bargain, it's being a jerk and wasting everyone's time. " if you discuss it instead of jumping on it, you give the guy time to rethink his mistake." I did discuss it. He offered me a very good SP: Aaron Nola. Not chicken feed, but not Clayton Kershaw either. As a test, I offered him: 1. My top-rated player, who is a top-caliber RP that everyone in the league has been trying to get from me. 2. My #1 drafted player in the most recent amateur draft. 3. My #1 draft pick for NEXT year's draft. Nope, no deal. Sorry, if a GM values a guy that much, the game is just wasting my time PMing me to ask if I am interested. And yes, the program can quite easily check this, it's just relatively simple math. Last edited by Qeltar; 04-25-2018 at 02:28 PM.

05-06-2018, 05:57 PM	#26
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	Okay, how's this for silly? The Blue Jays GM sends me a note asking if I'm interested in an SP. He's nothing special, 1.5 stars current, 3 stars potential. Sure, let's see what they want for him. "You have no player who makes this deal work!" Really. I put up Machado. "This might be the worst offer I have ever seen in my career." LOL, okay. So what do you need on top of one of the very best players in the game to get your precious pitcher? "You have no player who makes this deal work!" So I am really laughing at this point. I offer to retain 50% of Machado's salary. "This might be the worst offer I have ever seen in my career." So who would make it work for him? Well, if I trade him Machado, eat half of Machado's salary for three years, and ALSO trade him my 24-year-old 2B who just won Rookie of the Year (and is signed to a long-term contract at very reasonable rates)... then he will part with his pitcher. I'm really going to have to think this one over... I hope the devs consider putting in some filters so that GMs who value certain players this much don't offer to trade them. I actually can't recall ever seeing a player on another team's "untouchables" list -- maybe it isn't implemented yet. PS Bonus points: the message to me referred to him as a "cheap starting pitcher." Last edited by Qeltar; 05-06-2018 at 06:01 PM.

05-06-2018, 08:00 PM	#27
NCBeachBum All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Topsail Island, NC, USA Posts: 1,049	The real trick IRL is to send the other side 2000-word text messages until they give you whatever you want to make it stop, __________________ And ain't that a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame, the way you do Oh, it's a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame on you

05-07-2018, 11:31 AM	#31
Bobble Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: High and outside Posts: 4,035	I always feel like the AI GMs are this guy. "Oh, you want me to sweeten the deal?" <makes sprinkling gesture> "Alright, how about NO starting pitcher, NO starting lineup batter, and a half-star reliever?" __________________

05-07-2018, 02:51 PM	#33
TheMaus2 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: The OOTP Forums. Always. Posts: 1,951	If you want offers to stop on a certain player just put him on the Untouchable list. __________________ I write a monthly newsletter on the Food Baseball Association. I also listen to music no one's ever heard of in hopes of looking cool and alternative.

04-26-2018, 11:49 PM	#22
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	For the flip side on awful trades, why is the AI willing to take a guy off my hands who just got diagnosed with a 9-month arm injury and give me a small prospect to boot? He does have a locked in 3-year contract after this at a low rate, but he's very mediocre, and not super young (28) so I can't see any real GM doing this. Feels like I'd be cheating to take it...

04-27-2018, 02:16 PM	#23
igor7111 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Hawaii Posts: 129	I'm sorry to insert a noobie question here, but how do you trade for draft picks. I can get to the opp team's minor league system but I don't see how to trade for or trade away draft picks. Any help?

05-07-2018, 08:09 AM	#28
Clavette Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Connecticut Posts: 371	Id like to see these ai trade offers get refined a little more realistically in the future. Out of 100 offers i typically get 1 reasonable offer. Seems quite outta whack to me

05-07-2018, 08:56 AM	#30
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	I actually like that they programmed the AI so some GMs have very different ideas on what players are worth. It's realistic and makes trying to forge a deal more interesting. But I don't know that these GMs would go around dangling their pet favorites as trade bait. Earlier I was trying to work a trade for an RF from the Miami area as I am trying to spur local interest. I offered an RF from my organization, roughly the same age, very similar stats -- actually, my guy was better in far more categories than his was. Not only was this trade not interesting to him, he considered it an "insult." (I really hate that phrase and wish they'd remove it. It's just unprofessional and is used too often in situations where it makes no sense.) He valued his RF way, way above his actual value, and I thought that was cool. As long as he doesn't offer him to me in a trade.

05-07-2018, 03:05 PM	#34
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,883	And there is also a "not interested" list to stop the AI from offering you a player in multiple deals.

05-09-2018, 01:40 PM	#36
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	I wonder if it's a weakness in the AI or a deliberate decision to make AI GMs relatively unresponsive to injuries or injury-related lineup holes (to prevent the human player from taking advantage.) As a bit of a wheeler-dealer I have noticed: 1. The AI doesn't seem to care about the injury status of my players, it will happily trade for them even with severe injuries. (I don't do this, to keep things more realistic.) 2. The AI doesn't devalue its own players much when they have serious injuries. Even pitchers with TJ, they seem to assume they will be good as new afterwards. 3. The AI doesn't seem to get more "desperate" to fill holes in their lineups. For example, the Cubs in my game traded away Almora after they signed Blackmon. Then he got hurt. Their main lineup now features a 1/2 star scrub in CF on a non-rebuilding team, but every attempt by me to tempt them with one of my MLB-ready outfield prospects has been rebuffed in what feels the same way as if Blackmon were still healthy. Last edited by Qeltar; 05-09-2018 at 01:41 PM.

05-09-2018, 03:02 PM	#37
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,620	Happens often. On the other side of the coin...sometimes, it's an invitation to sucker the AI big time. __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

05-09-2018, 05:57 PM	#38
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	Does it? Okay thanks, maybe it's just dependent on circumstances that haven't arisen yet for me.

05-09-2018, 08:02 PM	#39
WIUPIKE All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nashville Area Posts: 1,273	To stop the are in you interested in that guy emails is to remove all the information in the team need section. It has been mentioned in another thread that the AI catches a player that matches your team need and you only get that email when they can't find a one for one or 2 for 1 deal that works for the AI.