Ties

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by kq76

I greatly prefer ties after 12 innings over this stupid runner on 2nd rule. Worst rule ever. I hate it.

So, this is a bit off-topic, and I apologize for that. But your comments here made me think of something I started doing when I was a kid playing Strat-O-Matic, a rule I made for myself largely because after 12 innings it became very difficult to keep score of a game on the scoresheets I was using at that time.
Although I did not use ties to resolve this, I did implement a rule where after 12 innings the first run scored was the game-winner. Of course, this now gave the visiting team an advantage starting in inning 13, but I wasn't terribly troubled by that at the time.

And here's the really embarrassing part of this story. A number of years later, while in college, I was hanging out at a friend's house and the Detroit Tigers game was on the television. A group of us were there, and I'm not really sure why we were even watching that game as most of them weren't really baseball fans. The game went into the 13th inning and the visiting team scored a run (it was a home game for the Tigers) and I told everyone the game was over. I had played with my little homemade rule for Strat for so long that in my mind that had taken over as the official MLB rule. Now, slightly in my defense, during my late high school years and into the college years I was paying attention to a lot of other things more than baseball. The game went into a commercial (I can only imagine there was a pitching change) and I was convinced they would just come back for the wrap-up about the tough Tiger loss.
One of the female members of the group, one of my best buddies' (to this day) girlfriend at the time, who was more athletic than most of us and had played high school softball, argued with me and I arrogantly professed my superior knowledge of how baseball works. Only to have to eat my words and foolishly mutter something about how they must have changed the rule recently without me hearing about it when the game came back on and eventually moved into the bottom of the 13th.

I don't think it was until much later that it dawned on me what had really happened- that in my mind my own fictional rule had replaced long-standing MLB reality.
Likely none of my friends present that day even remember this, but for me it remains a life-long shame and embarrassment.

[joefromchicago]

I'm glad to see folks here expressing their personal opinions about whether or not they like ties. But that sorta' misses the point. The fact is that ties do (and did) exist in certain leagues, including MLB. If you don't like them, I'm sure there would be an option in OOTP so that you don't have to have them, just as there are options to ban the DH or infield shifts or a bunch of other things. Just because you don't like them, however, doesn't mean they shouldn't be an option for others.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I'm glad to see folks here expressing their personal opinions about whether or not they like ties. But that sorta' misses the point. The fact is that ties do (and did) exist in certain leagues, including MLB. If you don't like them, I'm sure there would be an option in OOTP so that you don't have to have them, just as there are options to ban the DH or infield shifts or a bunch of other things. Just because you don't like them, however, doesn't mean they shouldn't be an option for others.

Hooray for the checkbox! I too would prefer ties to the dumb T-ball rule (which I never liked in the California League even though I understand it in a development league).

I'd prefer to use the *** rule and end after 13. I think the stats released when they announced the T-Ball rule showed MLB games almost always end within 13 innings, so they're goofing up the stat record for a situation that almost never happens.

[Torgonius]

Frontier League used Home Run Derby to end ties last year.

I saw one live.

It was absolutely horrific. Every bit as bad as penalty shots to decide games, and then a whole new level of worse.

[krownroyal83]

I love games that go 17,18 19+ plus innings. However I also like the idea of the option to have ties. I'd love for the game to have the option for a point system as well. Wins are two points but if a team loses in extra innings they still get a point.

[darkcloud4579]

I like long games with extra innings, but have long wanted to play OOTP with ties. So thanks to our friends from Korea for making this possible in OOTP

[Bunktown Ballers]

I'm not down for ties unless MLB implements it into the game. I dislike the extra inning rules now, but it is what it is


BB

[tm1681]

Originally Posted by daves

What are the views on ties? I am assuming no extra innings in the regular season? I am surprised that I like this option.

In hockey I don't mind the 5-minute OT, but I hate mandatory shootouts, Maybe limit a game to 10 innings?

In a modern baseball world where organizations are paranoid about pitcher ability and arm fatigue, ties are infinitely preferable to the half-assed "Second Base Ghost Runner" rule that MLB came up with a couple of years ago.

[league redacted] has been doing things just fine for a very long time: if the two teams can't find a way to separate themselves given three extra innings, then nobody is better and it ends in a tie. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[ubernoob]

There's almost 2500 games of baseball in a season, there definitely doesn't need to be a winner in all of them. The only reason so much baseball is played is because that's how long it takes to determine skill level.

Just let ties happen and use some type of point system like football (soccer football.)

[kq76]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

So, this is a bit off-topic...

LOL! That is funny. I've got a few moments like that myself that I'm still embarrassed to this day about, but I'm less sure than you are that others don't remember them.

Speaking of scorecards and ties after 12 innings... When I made my own scorecards years ago I looked into the % of games that go past a certain inning because I wanted to know how much room I should leave for extra innings on my sheets. And I found out that "98.75% of games don't go past 12". That was a theoretical number IINM, but I also checked to see if it was close to actuality and it was. Anyway, the point is, if someone wants to cap their games at a certain inning, but they don't want to cap too many games, 12 innings is probably pretty good (and if I remember how I calculated it, it'd be 99.375% for 13 innings).

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

There are two reasons to add ties to the game:

1. Some professional leagues (in particular KBO and ***) have ties; and

2. Ties were a regular feature in the days before the majority of ballparks had lights (pre-1940 or thereabouts).

Ties can still occur in MLB, but they're so rare (I think the last one was in 2016) that the average baseball fan would be excused for thinking that ties can't happen any more.

do the foreign leagues count the ties in the standings, are they ignored or are they half a W & half a L like NFL???

[Kobeck]

why not remove defenders from the field in extra innings like hockey does... LOL

[SouthernStar71]

Originally Posted by Kobeck

do the foreign leagues count the ties in the standings, are they ignored or are they half a W & half a L like NFL???

The KBO is a 10-team league. Each team plays 144 games, facing the other nine teams 16 times apiece. Games are declared ties after 12 innings (15 in the postseason), and those contests have no bearing on a team’s winning percentage.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by kq76

LOL! That is funny. I've got a few moments like that myself that I'm still embarrassed to this day about, but I'm less sure than you are that others don't remember them.

Speaking of scorecards and ties after 12 innings... When I made my own scorecards years ago I looked into the % of games that go past a certain inning because I wanted to know how much room I should leave for extra innings on my sheets. And I found out that "98.75% of games don't go past 12". That was a theoretical number IINM, but I also checked to see if it was close to actuality and it was. Anyway, the point is, if someone wants to cap their games at a certain inning, but they don't want to cap too many games, 12 innings is probably pretty good (and if I remember how I calculated it, it'd be 99.375% for 13 innings).

That's about the same percentage I saw in the study I read which was based on 1 or two seasons, sorry I don't have a link but like your math it proved the issue only came up a handful of times per year. I will say I'm not sure OOTP games match reality, my confirmation bias makes it seems like EI games go past 12 more often than they end before that.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Kobeck

do the foreign leagues count the ties in the standings, are they ignored or are they half a W & half a L like NFL???

Ties count as nothings. Same as in MLB.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

I like long games with extra innings, but have long wanted to play OOTP with ties. So thanks to our friends from Korea for making this possible in OOTP

Exactly! For the longest time, OOTP said "we can't implement ties in the game, it would be too difficult." Then OOTP gets bought by a Korean company and suddenly ... TIES!

[Pelican]

[QUOTE=Miamikb2001;4883102]For me personally the only use for ties would be spring training,as no need to play extra in meaningless games.Using in regular season seems insane!!Just my two cents


Agree 100%. Hilariously I had a Spring Training game, the last one, two days before Opening Day, go 17 innings. Of course IRL they would have stopped once one team ran out of players. I had all sorts of position players on the mound, but if one teams scored, the other team tied it back up. And those teams were beat up to start the season.

[Pelican]

How would playoff eligibility and seeding and matchups be determined, if teams had ties? There is no uniform method in soccer and hockey. Or at least no foolproof method. Do you disregard ties and rely on the win/loss record in remaining games? I recall that the NFL had issues with this, and it caused the move to the artificial process of resolving tied games. Let’s play the games to their conclusion, without gimmicks.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Pelican

How would playoff eligibility and seeding and matchups be determined, if teams had ties? There is no uniform method in soccer and hockey. Or at least no foolproof method. Do you disregard ties and rely on the win/loss record in remaining games? I recall that the NFL had issues with this, and it caused the move to the artificial process of resolving tied games. Let’s play the games to their conclusion, without gimmicks.

By winning percentage? If anything, ties lessen the chances of those horrible one game playoffs we sometimes see because when teams are counted for different numbers of games, winning percentages will differ.

The NFL has the issue with constantly having to work in tiebreakers because they only play 17 games. MLB plays 10 times that many (up until last year it was almost exactly 10 times as many).

[Matt Arnold]

Good part about this is it's optional, and configurable. So if you want the Manfred Man and ties after 12 innings, you can do that. Or if you want ties only in Spring games, that too.

Most of it currently is based on thr MLB/KBO rules. So ties basically are a null game, so 2-1-1 = .667 winning pct. And winning pct determines seeding and matches, so yeah, a team that goes 1-0-161 would technically finish ahead of a team that went 161-1.