Historical database issues go here! - Page 2

waitwut · 03-22-2023, 06:47 PM

Hi! Noticing some weird issues with historical records for teams. I noticed specifically for multiple teams it shows a finish of "0" in the years 2021 and 2022 and in some cases an X in the playoff column for 2022 is shown even if the team did not make the playoffs, like for the MN Twins. It doesnt seem like a major deal at the moment and I dont see any problems as of yet, but for some teams it is acting like they made the playoffs that year, and it might throw some numbers off.

Pacoheadley · 03-22-2023, 09:39 PM

I posted this as a thread but realized it probably fits better in here.

I tried starting a Historical League set in 1955, and I've noticed multiple players who are set as 2-way players who shouldn't be.

Jim Dyck for the Orioles is starting at 1B and is in the rotation as a reliver as well. In real life he never pitched in the majors, and pitched a bit in the mid 40s for 2 seasons in the minors. The game incorrectly gives him minor league pitching stats through 1954, most of it identical, this may be the cause.

Dave Pope, OF for the Guardians has the same issue. Never pitched in the majors, and pitched 2 games in 1947, but the game has incorrect minor league stats showing him pitching 5-1 with a 4.27 ERA for several seasons straight. Because of this, he is a Starting Pitcher for Cleveland.

I've found a couple players like this in my system (Washington Senators), and I don't know how many are out there.

Lukas Berger · 03-23-2023, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacoheadley

I posted this as a thread but realized it probably fits better in here.

I tried starting a Historical League set in 1955, and I've noticed multiple players who are set as 2-way players who shouldn't be.

Jim Dyck for the Orioles is starting at 1B and is in the rotation as a reliver as well. In real life he never pitched in the majors, and pitched a bit in the mid 40s for 2 seasons in the minors. The game incorrectly gives him minor league pitching stats through 1954, most of it identical, this may be the cause.

Dave Pope, OF for the Guardians has the same issue. Never pitched in the majors, and pitched 2 games in 1947, but the game has incorrect minor league stats showing him pitching 5-1 with a 4.27 ERA for several seasons straight. Because of this, he is a Starting Pitcher for Cleveland.

I've found a couple players like this in my system (Washington Senators), and I don't know how many are out there.

I'm sure there are a few of these. I'll fix these up. Let me know about any others you see.

EDIT:

These seem to be because we created fake pitching stats for them in the db. This has apprarently been the case in old versions of the game too. No idea why.

Lukas Berger · 03-23-2023, 07:30 AM

I fixed a few of the bigger name 1884 guys with unlinked stats because they played for teams we don't have in the db in 1884, but the majority of these will have to wait for a patch in the future.

Same for the Union Association guys from 1884. We'll basically have to move the whole UA to the minor league db and link their stats based on that.

tem316 · 03-24-2023, 07:20 PM

Historic replay of the 60's and 70's, you have Player 100 years and older.

Lukas Berger · 03-24-2023, 07:28 PM

As mentioned in the historic db thread (where we've moved this), there may be some cases where player records were combined due to the db merger. But we need specifics in order to fix this, B-Ref or B-Ref minors id's or at the very least names.

omg_pwnasaurus · 03-24-2023, 07:47 PM

Not sure if this is necessarily a bug but curious as to why the Negro League player ratings in '24 are fairly significantly worse globally than in the '23 version. Was there an engine change that affects those ratings specifically? I started a historical 1933 season and was comparing the same historical 1933 start rosters for the NEL players and they are noticeably worse in '24 for the same players. Default settings across the board on league creation.

BaseballMan · 03-24-2023, 11:38 PM

Would it be possible to have an option to use the database without the ingame expansion?
I know was ment for people who want an easy setup when running a 19th century league.
But for those who try to follow league expansion as it really was, it would be a big help for those that do.
We still have to do manual transactions but players importing to their correct teams makes it so much easier.
After that i can just use a spreadsheet i made that has all the historical transactions including players, managers and owners along with the game day starting pitchers.
I just follow it one page at a time till the game can take over with real historical transactions.

LansdowneSt · 03-25-2023, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Would it be possible to have an option to use the database without the ingame expansion?
I know was ment for people who want an easy setup when running a 19th century league.
But for those who try to follow league expansion as it really was, it would be a big help for those that do.
We still have to do manual transactions but players importing to their correct teams makes it so much easier.
After that i can just use a spreadsheet i made that has all the historical transactions including players, managers and owners along with the game day starting pitchers.
I just follow it one page at a time till the game can take over with real historical transactions.

I think on step 3 of the Historical Game Wizard there is a checkbox for "Automatically Expand League". Toggling this off at the set-up of the game should fix that. You just add and fold the teams as you see fit manually thereafter...

Ty Cobb · 03-25-2023, 12:23 AM

eyeing a comeback?

Lukas Berger · 03-25-2023, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

eyeing a comeback?

Fixed Brown and Kittle. Those were cases of merged records from multiple players.

I cannot for the life of me though, see what's wrong with the other two guys.

Can you go into the editor and where it shows their b-ref minors id's either take a screenshot or just copy paste those here? Thanks!

swampdragon · 03-25-2023, 09:02 AM

Started a 1901 replay, and Jake Beckley did not get his customary 2000 hit celebration the first week. His 1890 year in the Players League is erased from the stats line. That's at odds with the MLB policy of counting the Players League as a major league as well as previous OOTP versions. It's certainly no big deal, but I didn't know whether this was intentional. It's not limited to Beckley.

BaseballMan · 03-25-2023, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

I think on step 3 of the Historical Game Wizard there is a checkbox for "Automatically Expand League". Toggling this off at the set-up of the game should fix that. You just add and fold the teams as you see fit manually thereafter...

I don't think that would work for me.
Because i don't think rookies would go to their teams with it off.
Plus schedules may get messed up and it doesn't solve the problem of players not importing from missing teams.
Right now my conclusion is that its just unusable unless you want the historical/fictional hybrid model or a lot more work.
I will just have to go back to ootp23 to start a league from 1871 without the ootp's version of expansion.
Hopefully it can be fixed or i can convert when i get to 1900.
Its not something that makes me want to stop playing ootp24.
I can still use it for other types of leagues.
I don't want to give the impression that i'm mad and its a dealbreaker for me

Charlie Hough · 03-25-2023, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Fixed Brown and Kittle. Those were cases of merged records from multiple players.

Is Brown's position now fixed? He was listed at 3B, but the Lew Brown of the late 1800s never played at that position.

The other two players might just have scrambled birthdates in the database somehow, but here are a couple of things you could also check:

Is Jose Sencion potentially a confusion with Marlon Constante? Constante's full name is listed as Marlon Jose (Sencion) Constante in the StatsCrew database. But this doesn't explain the birthdate shown in the screenshot.

On the same theory, you might want to check Francisco Diaz against Carlos Diaz, whose full given name is Carlos Francisco Diaz. But this doesn't explain the birthdate shown in the screenshot.

BradG223 · 03-26-2023, 08:36 AM

Started a complete minors league in 1950. Some issues arose with this guy Harry Moore's (mooreha01) age years down the road.

Additionally, on the Red Sox there were duplicate Harry Taylor's upon beginning, however I deleted one before screenshotting.

Appreciate all the work guys.

ldambrosa · 03-26-2023, 10:57 AM

I see what appears to be a new field [Historical Year] in the player's editor screen. I assume that, especially for random debut, this helps the game keep track of what real life season the player is in. I started a 1991 historical season with random debut on. While still in the inaugural draft, I saw a player whose RL stats indicated that he came up as a 343-year-old. When looked into the Editor screen, I saw the attached. The historical year is listed as 1631. Not sure baseball was being played then ....

LansdowneSt · 03-26-2023, 06:13 PM

Here's another player, 1946 Josh Miller, (miller001jos) collecting unassigned stats:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=345381

Daniel_09 · 03-27-2023, 10:31 AM

I think it has been mentioned before but starting any historical season (in my case since 1980 with real minor leaguers) there are a huge amount of players on all teams (especially in the minors) with major league service between 1 year and 4 years.

This means that there are salaries of players who have not debuted in the major leagues and are in arbitration period. This makes that most of the teams do not have money available, since the payroll of each team is overestimated with this type of players who are charging high salaries but have not even debuted.

Can this be fixed in the short term?

szathkey · 03-27-2023, 07:03 PM

Hi all,

Are these DB issues being worked on for the next patch? Unfortunately, my OCD will not allow me to start a historical season until hometowns are fixed. I know I this may seem bonkers, but that's where I am at...any info would be appreciated.

Charlie Hough · 03-27-2023, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szathkey

Are these DB issues being worked on for the next patch? Unfortunately, my OCD will not allow me to start a historical season until hometowns are fixed. I know I this may seem bonkers, but that's where I am.

You're not bonkers.

I am similarly waiting until all of these problems are fixed before I play OOTP 24 for anything other than testing.

Hopefully Lukas can provide an update, but this will probably be an ongoing process. My understanding is that many database issues were fixed before the beta launch, but there are lingering problems in the full release that will probably need to be discovered and fixed over time.

03-23-2023, 07:30 AM	#24
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 21,433	I fixed a few of the bigger name 1884 guys with unlinked stats because they played for teams we don't have in the db in 1884, but the majority of these will have to wait for a patch in the future. Same for the Union Association guys from 1884. We'll basically have to move the whole UA to the minor league db and link their stats based on that. __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com PreOrder Out of the Park Baseball 26! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here

03-24-2023, 07:20 PM	#25
tem316 Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Virginia Posts: 315	Historical Data Base Historic replay of the 60's and 70's, you have Player 100 years and older.

03-24-2023, 07:28 PM	#26
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 21,433	As mentioned in the historic db thread (where we've moved this), there may be some cases where player records were combined due to the db merger. But we need specifics in order to fix this, B-Ref or B-Ref minors id's or at the very least names. __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com PreOrder Out of the Park Baseball 26! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here Last edited by Lukas Berger; 03-24-2023 at 07:30 PM.

03-24-2023, 07:47 PM	#27
omg_pwnasaurus Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 362	Not sure if this is necessarily a bug but curious as to why the Negro League player ratings in '24 are fairly significantly worse globally than in the '23 version. Was there an engine change that affects those ratings specifically? I started a historical 1933 season and was comparing the same historical 1933 start rosters for the NEL players and they are noticeably worse in '24 for the same players. Default settings across the board on league creation. Last edited by omg_pwnasaurus; 03-24-2023 at 07:54 PM.

03-25-2023, 12:23 AM	#30
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,595	Couple of old timers apparently eyeing a comeback? Attached Images __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

03-22-2023, 06:47 PM	#21
waitwut Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 65	Hi! Noticing some weird issues with historical records for teams. I noticed specifically for multiple teams it shows a finish of "0" in the years 2021 and 2022 and in some cases an X in the playoff column for 2022 is shown even if the team did not make the playoffs, like for the MN Twins. It doesnt seem like a major deal at the moment and I dont see any problems as of yet, but for some teams it is acting like they made the playoffs that year, and it might throw some numbers off.

03-22-2023, 09:39 PM	#22
Pacoheadley All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Kincheloe, MI Posts: 521	I posted this as a thread but realized it probably fits better in here. I tried starting a Historical League set in 1955, and I've noticed multiple players who are set as 2-way players who shouldn't be. Jim Dyck for the Orioles is starting at 1B and is in the rotation as a reliver as well. In real life he never pitched in the majors, and pitched a bit in the mid 40s for 2 seasons in the minors. The game incorrectly gives him minor league pitching stats through 1954, most of it identical, this may be the cause. Dave Pope, OF for the Guardians has the same issue. Never pitched in the majors, and pitched 2 games in 1947, but the game has incorrect minor league stats showing him pitching 5-1 with a 4.27 ERA for several seasons straight. Because of this, he is a Starting Pitcher for Cleveland. I've found a couple players like this in my system (Washington Senators), and I don't know how many are out there.

03-24-2023, 11:38 PM	#28
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,578	Would it be possible to have an option to use the database without the ingame expansion? I know was ment for people who want an easy setup when running a 19th century league. But for those who try to follow league expansion as it really was, it would be a big help for those that do. We still have to do manual transactions but players importing to their correct teams makes it so much easier. After that i can just use a spreadsheet i made that has all the historical transactions including players, managers and owners along with the game day starting pitchers. I just follow it one page at a time till the game can take over with real historical transactions.

03-25-2023, 09:02 AM	#32
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	Started a 1901 replay, and Jake Beckley did not get his customary 2000 hit celebration the first week. His 1890 year in the Players League is erased from the stats line. That's at odds with the MLB policy of counting the Players League as a major league as well as previous OOTP versions. It's certainly no big deal, but I didn't know whether this was intentional. It's not limited to Beckley. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

03-26-2023, 08:36 AM	#35
BradG223 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 173	Started a complete minors league in 1950. Some issues arose with this guy Harry Moore's (mooreha01) age years down the road. Additionally, on the Red Sox there were duplicate Harry Taylor's upon beginning, however I deleted one before screenshotting. Appreciate all the work guys. Attached Images Last edited by BradG223; 03-26-2023 at 09:08 AM.

03-26-2023, 10:57 AM	#36
ldambrosa Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Lincroft, NJ Posts: 61	Issue with George Wilson & Historical Year - wilsoge01 I see what appears to be a new field [Historical Year] in the player's editor screen. I assume that, especially for random debut, this helps the game keep track of what real life season the player is in. I started a 1991 historical season with random debut on. While still in the inaugural draft, I saw a player whose RL stats indicated that he came up as a 343-year-old. When looked into the Editor screen, I saw the attached. The historical year is listed as 1631. Not sure baseball was being played then .... Attached Images

03-26-2023, 06:13 PM	#37
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 7,692	Here's another player, 1946 Josh Miller, (miller001jos) collecting unassigned stats: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=345381 __________________ Complete Universe Facegen Pack 2.0 (mine included) https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...k_2.0.zip/file Just my Facegen Pack: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi..._Pack.zip/file

03-27-2023, 10:31 AM	#38
Daniel_09 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: Caracas Posts: 318	Service Time Players I think it has been mentioned before but starting any historical season (in my case since 1980 with real minor leaguers) there are a huge amount of players on all teams (especially in the minors) with major league service between 1 year and 4 years. This means that there are salaries of players who have not debuted in the major leagues and are in arbitration period. This makes that most of the teams do not have money available, since the payroll of each team is overestimated with this type of players who are charging high salaries but have not even debuted. Can this be fixed in the short term?

03-27-2023, 07:03 PM	#39
szathkey Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 201	Hi all, Are these DB issues being worked on for the next patch? Unfortunately, my OCD will not allow me to start a historical season until hometowns are fixed. I know I this may seem bonkers, but that's where I am at...any info would be appreciated.