Wander Franco MIA

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Let's start with the MLB license. Stop paying for it to have full control.. Not happening , nor should it. OOTP is running a business and everyone is free to buy or not buy for whatever reason, MLB license, front office depth, etc. etc. etc. I can assure you that terminating the license will take more dollars out of their paycheck than keeping it. But yeah, it's not your money so feel free to tell them what to do.

Franco is a legitimate question, but once asked and no answer appears to be coming, one could just take a few minutes and recreate Franco if he's that important to their game. In the time it took to post here they could already be playing. It's what I would do.

"But I paid $30-40 for the game and shouldn't have to". That's correct and fair enough, if it's not a mandated removal. The choice, then, is still live without and complain, or take a few minutes and move on. Choice #2 seems the fastest way to ease the frustration.

Doesn't affect my game either way, just trying to help.

It does affect other people's games and creating Franco isn't as easy as you make it sound. A couple weeks ago you threw a complete hissy fit, because the Forums weren't working properly for a couple mornings. Demanded an immediate fix. I enjoy your posts but way too often you dismiss issues others are having simply because they don't affect you. Do you go to emergency rooms and laugh at the sick and injured?

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by David Watts

It does affect other people's games and creating Franco isn't as easy as you make it sound. A couple weeks ago you threw a complete hissy fit, because the Forums weren't working properly for a couple mornings. Demanded an immediate fix. I enjoy your posts but way too often you dismiss issues others are having simply because they don't affect you. Do you go to emergency rooms and laugh at the sick and injured?

Actually if you read my post and didn't overreact you'll see I said that Franco is a legitimate question. The response is to the hyperbole let's get rid of the MLB license post. To your ridiculous and insulting question about laughing at folks in the ER? No, but what an ass to compare the two. Good on you. What I do laugh at is the hyperbole about the license. Would that, in your mind, be the same as laughing at folks in a hospital?

There has been no official answer on Franco. The only recourse, at this time, is to play without, or make the player. Where am I wrong?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Actually if you read my post and didn't overreact you'll see I said that Franco is a legitimate question. The response is to the hyperbole let's get rid of the MLB license post. To your ridiculous and insulting question about laughing at folks in the ER? No, but what an ass to compare the two. Good on you. What I do laugh at is the hyperbole about the license. Would that, in your mind, be the same as laughing at folks in a hospital?

There has been no official answer on Franco. The only recourse, at this time, is to play without, or make the player. Where am I wrong?

Didn't say you were wrong. I said it isn't as easy to create Franco as you make it seem.

.

[snarls200]

Originally Posted by Pelican

I don’t know if this is clear to everybody, but, if OOTP does not enter into a licensing agreement with MLB or the players association, and pay whatever fees are negotiated, they are not going to be able to produce the game as in past years. It’s pretty simple, and it sucks to not have more control; but that’s a golden rule situation, and MLB and the PA have the gold and make the rules. Just as the NFL has the gold, and Madden and others have to play by their rules. It’s not a situation I like one bit; but it is unlikely to change anytime soon.

one thing I love about this and even the hockey game is that the Leagues involved aren't being too picky customization wise. ]

Compare that with Madden and its night and day on it.

[whaleheader]

This isn't a license issue. I'm 100% certain.

It's also not a take-it or leave-it thing. I can recreate Franco if I wish because I know people who have created live starts right before he was removed. If I didn't have access, though, I'd be out of luck because Franco also isn't available if I begin a game at the start of the season.

The devs can do whatever they want; the people who pay for the game can then decide whether that decision impacts them enough to stop buying OOTP.

Of course, losing a customer is rarely based on a single problem. It's more a tipping-point action.

I moved my online league to OOTP five years ago and, despite a group of guys who still prefer the old game, overall people have been happy with OOTP.

We'll see how much those feelings will change when we move to OOTP 24 in a couple of weeks. At that point the removal of all the foreign leagues, the bugs concerning the economic changes, and this issue might engender more critical opinions.

What's most troubling about this issue is the lack of response. It would literally take two minutes to explain the issue and decision. Personally, I can accept a difference of opinion as long as the resulting action is explained and consistent.

Originally Posted by Sweed

Let's start with the MLB license. Stop paying for it to have full control.. Not happening , nor should it. OOTP is running a business and everyone is free to buy or not buy for whatever reason, MLB license, front office depth, etc. etc. etc. I can assure you that terminating the license will take more dollars out of their paycheck than keeping it. But yeah, it's not your money so feel free to tell them what to do.

Franco is a legitimate question, but once asked and no answer appears to be coming, one could just take a few minutes and recreate Franco if he's that important to their game. In the time it took to post here they could already be playing. It's what I would do.

"But I paid $30-40 for the game and shouldn't have to". That's correct and fair enough, if it's not a mandated removal. The choice, then, is still live without and complain, or take a few minutes and move on. Choice #2 seems the fastest way to ease the frustration.

Doesn't affect my game either way, just trying to help.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Didn't say you were wrong. I said it isn't as easy to create Franco as you make it seem.

.

Well then let's return to what I was laughing at.

As of now if you want Franco you'll have to create him.

Per the post I responded to, and the part that I laughed at,... let's get rid of the MLB license and show those guys they can't tell us what to do.

How does that affect Franco? Well, we still have to make him. Not only that but we have to make all of the other players too, MLB and MiLB. See how it becomes funny when it's thought through?

What is the difficulty in making Franco? It's an honest question. Is it the time it would take to type everything in? Figuring out how to rate him?

For ratings I'd use the Franco you created in your historical v23 game and go from there. I'd think that would be an acceptable base and one could tweak the ratings if they thought it was needed.

I've spent many hours "fixing" things in my game. Minor leagues over the years changing affiliations, cities, levels. Back in the day of feeder leagues on creation I manually moved players, and changed ages, to different "class years" so my first drafts would have a balance to them. I manually entered new park factors for Baltimore, Toronto, and Detroit due to their remodels using the stats from just after the half way point of the current MLB season. This requires one to redo every park if one wants the total for all parks to add up to 1.00 in each of the categories. This year with the new schedule of playing every team in both leagues leads to a problem in season two when OOTP reshuffles the teams. Ie I play Boston in Chicago in year one, and in year two also. I fixed it, and trust me once you start changing one game you have to change a lot to keep the home and aways balanced.

All of these things were time consuming but worth the effort IMHO. I had to decide between "how badly do I want it" and "how hard/ time consuming" will it be to do it.

I'd love it if the developers answered the question one way or the other, but so far silence appears to be winning out. Since he's not in the game one would expect the answer to explain why. Once the explanation came out there would be a new out cry about the why, and we would continue on, all be it with a bit more information.

[BIG17EASY]

I also don't think Franco (and Urias) missing has anything to do with the MLB license. All someone needs to do is load up a copy of MLB The Show and see if they were removed there, because if MLB or the Players Association took the time to reach out to OOTP, then you can darn well bet they contacted Sony, as well.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Well then let's return to what I was laughing at.

As of now if you want Franco you'll have to create him.

Per the post I responded to, and the part that I laughed at,... let's get rid of the MLB license and show those guys they can't tell us what to do.

How does that affect Franco? Well, we still have to make him. Not only that but we have to make all of the other players too, MLB and MiLB. See how it becomes funny when it's thought through?

What is the difficulty in making Franco? It's an honest question. Is it the time it would take to type everything in? Figuring out how to rate him?

For ratings I'd use the Franco you created in your historical v23 game and go from there. I'd think that would be an acceptable base and one could tweak the ratings if they thought it was needed.

I've spent many hours "fixing" things in my game. Minor leagues over the years changing affiliations, cities, levels. Back in the day of feeder leagues on creation I manually moved players, and changed ages, to different "class years" so my first drafts would have a balance to them. I manually entered new park factors for Baltimore, Toronto, and Detroit due to their remodels using the stats from just after the half way point of the current MLB season. This requires one to redo every park if one wants the total for all parks to add up to 1.00 in each of the categories. This year with the new schedule of playing every team in both leagues leads to a problem in season two when OOTP reshuffles the teams. Ie I play Boston in Chicago in year one, and in year two also. I fixed it, and trust me once you start changing one game you have to change a lot to keep the home and aways balanced.

All of these things were time consuming but worth the effort IMHO. I had to decide between "how badly do I want it" and "how hard/ time consuming" will it be to do it.

I'd love it if the developers answered the question one way or the other, but so far silence appears to be winning out. Since he's not in the game one would expect the answer to explain why. Once the explanation came out there would be a new out cry about the why, and we would continue on, all be it with a bit more information.

When you create a player are you able to add his prior season stats history? Also, I'm not entirely sure how historical ratings translate to the MLB Quickstart type player. I guess one step would be to see if they removed the OOTP23 Franco from the quickstart as well. If not, one could just copy his ratings from there, or tweak them a little.

I guess I'm kind of a hypocrite in the end. I didn't bat an eye when the Indians were pulled from the game completely, but it kind of bugs me when a player is removed. I would want him removed from live starts, but, he did play a significant portion of the season for the Rays, so I think he should e there. Ugh.

[jcard]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I also don't think Franco (and Urias) missing has anything to do with the MLB license. All someone needs to do is load up a copy of MLB The Show and see if they were removed there, because if MLB or the Players Association took the time to reach out to OOTP, then you can darn well bet they contacted Sony, as well.

What do you think you are doing? Concisely offering an objective and simple way to answer a question? You, my friend, obviously are new to this forum.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by jcard

What do you think you are doing? Concisely offering an objective and simple way to answer a question? You, my friend, obviously are new to this forum.

I was actually looking at the MLB The Show community page yesterday, but I couldn't find anything about Franco. I don't have the game, nor do I know anyone that does.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Rain King

You are saying you would prefer not to have any licensed leagues or players in the game?

I agree with that, actually. I don't think most will though.

Versions before the license had real leagues and players. Logos were not provided and the awards didn't have the real life names, Best Pitcher instead of Cy Young, etc. Has something changed so that wouldn't be true today?

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Per the post I responded to, and the part that I laughed at,... let's get rid of the MLB license and show those guys they can't tell us what to do.

I'd really like to know what the license allows OOTP to do that it's not allowed to do without the license. Aside not being able to use team a league logos, what is there? Is the rest like being the Red Sox Official Soft Drink or the Olympics Official Tampon?

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I was actually looking at the MLB The Show community page yesterday, but I couldn't find anything about Franco. I don't have the game, nor do I know anyone that does.

You must not have looked very hard - https://mlb23.theshow.com/items/732e...46db1a2df039a8

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I'd really like to know what the license allows OOTP to do that it's not allowed to do without the license. Aside not being able to use team a league logos, what is there? Is the rest like being the Red Sox Official Soft Drink or the Olympics Official Tampon?

The MLB license allows OOTP to use team names and logos. The MLB Players Association license allows OOTP to use player names and likenesses, which includes all statistical information related to that player, both biographical (age, hometown, etc.) and performance (batting average, ERA, strikeouts, etc.).

A few versions ago, OOTP was contacted by MLB and asked to stop using those things. Fortunately MLB and the MLBPA were willing to negotiate a license deal, so the game was only without those things for a couple weeks, IIRC. Unlike the foreign league that shall not be named that was removed late in the OOTP23 cycle and is likely to never return.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

You must not have looked very hard - https://mlb23.theshow.com/items/732e...46db1a2df039a8

Thanks, I admit I got bored looking pretty quick. Was hoping a thread would jump out and hit me in the forehead.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

The MLB license allows OOTP to use team names and logos. The MLB Players Association license allows OOTP to use player names and likenesses, which includes all statistical information related to that player, both biographical (age, hometown, etc.) and performance (batting average, ERA, strikeouts, etc.).
.

" Many kinds of mental creations, such as publicized baseball statistics, are never covered by copyright."

Wiki Article

It seems to me that if the stats aren't copyright then the name of a player being a field that identifies them can't be copyright in this context.

[kidd_05_u2]

It's incredible to me that people would waste time speculating about legal stuff they are clearly clueless about instead of just accepting that this is obviously a license issue.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Brad K

" Many kinds of mental creations, such as publicized baseball statistics, are never covered by copyright."

Wiki Article

It seems to me that if the stats aren't copyright then the name of a player being a field that identifies them can't be copyright in this context.

It's the combination of statistics, plus name, plus biographical info (hometown, birthday, etc.) that adds up to use of that player's likeness. It's not just the statistics on their own. If you use Mike Trout's statistics, but call him Bill Jones with different, but similar biographical info, that would (likely) not require a license from MLBPA.

EDIT: Added "likely" in the last sentence because I don't know how constricting NIL laws and guidelines have become now that it's under the microscope with the NCAA.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by kidd_05_u2

It's incredible to me that people would waste time speculating about legal stuff they are clearly clueless about instead of just accepting that this is obviously a license issue.

It's incredible to me that you think MLB and MLBPA would enforce their license with little ol' OOTP and not the exponentially more popular MLB The Show.

[BIG17EASY]

Has anyone checked to see if the Wander Franco card is gone from Perfect Team?