OOTP Wiki: Where is everyone who supported its creation?

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by YL ORIOLES

For crying out loud just make the dam manual you pay for a product at least they can do the manual like every other company.

I do not know of any game now days that come with a manual. Most of everything is fan made Wiki's now days, or there are 2 or 3 different websites you can go to.

Hell, search for a manual for Madden 25 and you will go to a page that talks about Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. Hardly NO ONE has used an Xbox 360 to play Madden since 2012! The Xbox One came out in Nov 2013, and the Xbox X series in 2020! The manuals they have are outdated by over 10 years lol and the links go nowhere!

So MAYBE you should be happy that a company like OOTP is putting out content even if it is in the form of a Wiki because at least THAT can be updated and kept updated way more than any of the manuals that are out for even OOTP! There are parts of the manuals that OOTP put out that have not been updated in 5 or more iterations of the game!

Not many games do anything like this anymore! They just assume, since their games have been around for decades, everyone knows how to play them now!

[textilemonster]

Originally Posted by kq76

We're not in the 1990s anymore. Not every video game company makes manuals nowadays. My guess is the vast majority don't. I still play other video games and I can't remember the last time, other than OOTP's, that I even saw a game manual, physical or digital. Youtube and wikis are how people predominantly get their help now. Besides, would we really rather the devs work on a manual or a new feature we might really like.

I agree that actual manuals are pretty much a thing of the past, but I will say that most games I play have essentially moved the manual into the game via glossaries, or tutorials, or "help" buttons that lead to things, or tooltips.

[textilemonster]

Originally Posted by Brad K

You don't have to know a lot about the game to be an effective editor. Knowing a few specific things and noticing they are not covered in the manual or that the manual has it wrong is enough to be effective. This must be a community effort and the idea that the ocean consists of lots of single drops of water applies.

Well, I'll still do what I can. Every bit helps, I'm sure.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by textilemonster

Well, I'll still do what I can. Every bit helps, I'm sure.

Yes, every little bit does help. And considering the Wiki is still mostly a copy of the OOTP 24 manual which was out of date for OOTP 24, I bet there is more you can do than you imagine.

Have you happened to play with development only, no recalc? If yes do you know how positions and learning positions works with development only? I last played development only with OOTP 11 and don't feel qualified to write a paragraph on fielding in with that setting.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Yes, every little bit does help. And considering the Wiki is still mostly a copy of the OOTP 24 manual which was out of date for OOTP 24, I bet there is more you can do than you imagine.

Have you happened to play with development only, no recalc? If yes do you know how positions and learning positions works with development only? I last played development only with OOTP 11 and don't feel qualified to write a paragraph on fielding in with that setting.

With development on, position learning is the same as in a fictional league.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

With development on, position learning is the same as in a fictional league.

Well, I don't know about that either! LOL.

[Brad K]

When someone makes an edit to the Wiki, what is an acceptably length of time to pass before that edit is approved, approved with changes, or a discussion opened concerning the edit?

[jaa36]

I did a little bit of editing, but got frustrated by some of the broken links in the wiki. For example, this page

https://wiki.ootpdevelopments.com/in...atting_Ratings

should point to this page

https://wiki.ootpdevelopments.com/in...atting_Ratings

but the first page is blank and I can't figure out how to point it to the second.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by jaa36

I did a little bit of editing, but got frustrated by some of the broken links in the wiki. For example, this page

https://wiki.ootpdevelopments.com/in...atting_Ratings

should point to this page

https://wiki.ootpdevelopments.com/in...atting_Ratings

but the first page is blank and I can't figure out how to point it to the second.

Editing links is a little awkward sometimes. You have to click edit, then click the link, and it pops up with another spot to click the edit button. Then you basically have to copy everything after the OOTP_Baseball: into the link, to get it to point to the right spot.
I fixed the broken ones on that page.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Editing links is a little awkward sometimes. You have to click edit, then click the link, and it pops up with another spot to click the edit button. Then you basically have to copy everything after the OOTP_Baseball: into the link, to get it to point to the right spot.
I fixed the broken ones on that page.

Yeah that is a big problem when you have different pages going to "like" pages. It's either you copy the page to work in different areas, OR, you link the ONE page but then the user will be taken back to a different page that they didn't come from. So the way I fixed it is I just made a copy of the one page so that it keeps the links right and does not take the player from the player model page to the player profile page! So all fixed

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Given the nature, I would suggest that editing the discussion sections is probably not much of a worthwhile endeavour. As mentioned, there's not a lot of editors, and most people will not venture there. Discussion edits do not appear in the list of changes which need approvals, so are not likely to be noticed unless if someone goes to the discussion for some other reason.

Good observation that the Talk sections of individual pages are not likely to be active. What Wikipedia does - Talk sections for each article - doesn't scale down well. But Wikipedia also has Talk sections for categories of articles and less specific Talk sections. Examples are Community Portal, Village Pump, etc.

Is it possible to have a general Talk section with a link on the main Wiki page? Editors do need to be able to communicate with each other. And it's would be best to do it at the Wiki site.

[jaa36]

Originally Posted by twins_34

Yeah that is a big problem when you have different pages going to "like" pages. It's either you copy the page to work in different areas, OR, you link the ONE page but then the user will be taken back to a different page that they didn't come from. So the way I fixed it is I just made a copy of the one page so that it keeps the links right and does not take the player from the player model page to the player profile page! So all fixed

I couldn't quite follow the explanations for how to do fix the links, but it looks like the same issue exists for the "Defensive Ratings" pages, which I just tried to edit... thanks for the assistance!

[Brad K]

Finding broken links is important. Keep going..

[mytreds]

Originally Posted by twins_34

I do not know of any game now days that come with a manual. Most of everything is fan made Wiki's now days, or there are 2 or 3 different websites you can go to.

Hell, search for a manual for Madden 25 and you will go to a page that talks about Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. Hardly NO ONE has used an Xbox 360 to play Madden since 2012! The Xbox One came out in Nov 2013, and the Xbox X series in 2020! The manuals they have are outdated by over 10 years lol and the links go nowhere!

So MAYBE you should be happy that a company like OOTP is putting out content even if it is in the form of a Wiki because at least THAT can be updated and kept updated way more than any of the manuals that are out for even OOTP! There are parts of the manuals that OOTP put out that have not been updated in 5 or more iterations of the game!

Not many games do anything like this anymore! They just assume, since their games have been around for decades, everyone knows how to play them now!

The “Because no one else does, we shouldn’t do it either” argument is a bad one.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by mytreds

The “Because no one else does, we shouldn’t do it either” argument is a bad one.

Do you even know how outdated the manuals were? They didn't get the attention and updates they should have got. Each year, just the new stuff was added but things that got changed or updated, that section was never fixed. The Wiki is going to be much better because more people have access to edit and update it.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by jaa36

I couldn't quite follow the explanations for how to do fix the links, but it looks like the same issue exists for the "Defensive Ratings" pages, which I just tried to edit... thanks for the assistance!

Fixed, thanks!

Also, all I did was copied the page (Highlighted everything from the page that was complete, hit copy, went to the page that was blank, and hit paste)

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Finding broken links is important. Keep going..

Well, not really broken links, cause the links went to a page, it more, sadly..., pages that I overlooked and I didn't finish. I was the only one working on the project for 4 months and, I was bound to miss some pages. At points I was working on trying to get it done 8 to 10 hours a day, and then had a huge burnout where I did nothing for almost a month, and then jumped back in and tried to catch up and just missed links I created, that still had a blank page. The links went to a page, it's just the page was blank and only had DISPLAYTITLE:{{SUBPAGENAME}} on them to link them back to the previous page.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by mytreds

The “Because no one else does, we shouldn’t do it either” argument is a bad one.

I agree. I think a Wiki is a bad choice. I opposed it in the thread where it was suggested. I repeated that view in the post that started this thread.

However I am contributing to the Wiki. And I started this thread to try to create some interest. Why? Because we have years of proof that OOTP is not going to produce an acceptable manual. And the Wiki got off to a slow start.

You know a lot about the game. Take a look at the Wiki. You're sure to come across something fairly quickly that is out dated, omitted, or was never correct. Every little fix helps. Lots of hands make for easy lifting.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Brad K

When someone makes an edit to the Wiki, what is an acceptably length of time to pass before that edit is approved, approved with changes, or a discussion opened concerning the edit?

It looks like approvals are happening within a day. Matt appears quite active. Thank you.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Good observation that the Talk sections of individual pages are not likely to be active. What Wikipedia does - Talk sections for each article - doesn't scale down well. But Wikipedia also has Talk sections for categories of articles and less specific Talk sections. Examples are Community Portal, Village Pump, etc.

Is it possible to have a general Talk section with a link on the main Wiki page? Editors do need to be able to communicate with each other. And it's would be best to do it at the Wiki site.

If it is not possible to have a general Talk page at the Wiki, could we have a thread on this forum where Editors and those with approval authority can discuss the Wiki? It looks to me like a link to the thread could be put on the Wiki main page.

A thread is enough at this point. There's not enough activity for a forum on the board.