Historical MLB/Minors roster and db issues go here - Page 23

Spritze · 06-09-2016, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian Fields

I imagine I'll find more of these things, and will report back as I find some issues. I don't really care that this is what is happening, but I thought you guys should know.

We sent the world database team a list of all the missing birthplaces for every major league player last year. It has not yet been acted on. There are 1,357 of them.

David Watts · 06-09-2016, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Not a bug.

As BBref does not include fielding stats for an abundance of players they all start with average skills. I will alter this default a bit by giving players on first place teams better skills than players on last place teams. I think the place to do this would be in the fielding ratings? I could also change the stats in the same way. Actually maybe both?

I will endeavor to look up these missing stats in the Spalding and Reach baseball guides but that will take many years as they need to happen one by one.

So this includes major league players as well? If I start a historical league in 1946 are all the infielders going to be rated at 50 like they are now?

Spritze · 06-09-2016, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

So this includes major league players as well? No If I start a historical league in 1946 are all the infielders going to be rated at 50 like they are now? Depends if the fielding data exists on BBref.

If a player had enough known real fielding data that was used to create the missing data. If not but the league he was in had enough that was used. If not the MLB average for that year was used. It is actually a little more complicated than that but you get the idea.

I am going to update the minor league database with the real vetted fielding data contained in the Spritze database this summer. That is only a drop in the bucket though.

The 1919 Texas League has real fielding data but all the players get the same rating. This should not be.

David Watts · 06-09-2016, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

If a player had enough known real fielding data that was used to create the missing data. If not but the league he was in had enough that was used. If not the MLB average for that year was used. It is actually a little more complicated than that but you get the idea.

I am going to update the minor league database with the real vetted fielding data contained in the Spritze database this summer. That is only a drop in the bucket though.

The 1919 Texas League has real fielding data but all the players get the same rating. This should not be.

So my questions still stands, when will we see Major League infielders be rated something other than 50? If I want to play straight historical without real minors, will I be able to do so with players rated defensively anytime soon. Will I be able to play random debut anytime soon? I guess I'm just used to 16 and all versions prior where you could see a difference between the average guys and the studs. I did a historical exhibition a few days ago of the 72 World Series. Bert Campineris was a 70 at SS. That's what I'm talking about.

Don't hold me to the exact year, but let's use Phil Rizzuto as an example. I started the exact same season with OOTP 16 and OOTP 17. Phil Rizzuto in 17 is a 50, just like all his fellow teammates. Same season with 16, he is a 70. ??

Spritze · 06-09-2016, 01:25 PM

The MLB is not covered by my comments. That is someone else's bailiwick. I don't know who though. I'll test this today so you will have a confirmation..

swampdragon · 06-09-2016, 01:27 PM

The old fielding formula worked. You're fixing something that wasn't broken and breaking it in the process.

I understand about the minor leagues. If the stats don't exist, then they don't exist. But the formula was right in OOTP 16, and it should be applied to both majors and minors.

David Watts · 06-09-2016, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

The MLB is not covered by my comments. That is someone else's bailiwick. I don't know who though. I'll test this today so you will have a confirmation..

Can we please find out the bailiwick of whom it is? That way I can quit bothering you. In the end historical minors working with players on the teams will be a huge addition to the game, but right now having a straight up historical/random debut that works is essential.

Spritze · 06-09-2016, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Can we please find out the bailiwick of whom it is? That way I can quit bothering you. In the end historical minors working with players on the teams will be a huge addition to the game, but right now having a straight up historical/random debut that works is essential.

I just tested a 1950 MLB only league. On a 20-80 scale the fielding ratings for all MLB players run from 25-75. 1-100 scales gives a range of 13-95 rizzuto=72

I'd put your concerns 1 level up in this subforum. I do not know if this one gets read by anyone important.

David Watts · 06-09-2016, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

I just tested a 1950 MLB only league. On a 20-80 scale the fielding ratings for all MLB players run from 25-75.

Alright, I will try this when I get home. The last couple of times I did so, probably 1946 or 47, I had all 50's in the infield.

David Watts · 06-09-2016, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

I just tested a 1950 MLB only league. On a 20-80 scale the fielding ratings for all MLB players run from 25-75. 1-100 scales gives a range of 13-95 rizzuto=72

I'd put your concerns 1 level up in this subforum. I do not know if this one gets read by anyone important.

Too funny. Rushed home from work to fire up 1950, Here we go.
Philadelphis Athletics vs Washington Senators
Senators infield
Eddie Robinson 1B 45
Sherry Robertson 2B 50
Sam Dente SS 50
Eddie Yost 3B 50

Athletics infield
Ferris Fain 1B 45
Billy Hitchcock 2B 50
Eddie Joost SS 50
Bob Dillenger 3B 50

Boston Redsox vs New York Yankees
Boston infield
Walt Dropo 1B 45
Bobby Doerr 2B 50
Vern Stephens SS 50
Johnny Pesky 3B 50

Yankee infield
Johnny Mize 1B 45
Jerry Coleman 2B 50
Phil Rizzuto SS 50
Billy Johnson 3B 50

I could go on but it seems pretty pointless.

Spritze · 06-09-2016, 07:17 PM

Well all I can say is I do not get these results.

See the attachment attached...

David Watts · 06-09-2016, 07:59 PM

Did it 3 more times. 50's across the infields. 45 at 1B. If I turn scouting on most guys go to 45.

Tried 1972 and guess what.....it works like it's supposed to.

So, just as was reported at least a month ago, its baseball from around 1954 and earlier that's ruined.

Spritze · 06-09-2016, 08:09 PM

My league comes from Steam build 56. You may be using Esellerate build 54. Steam just updates without asking so I never know what build I am on and the bug report has no mention that this issue was adjusted. It may have been fixed but not documented?

David Watts · 06-09-2016, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

My league comes from Steam build 56. You may be using Esellerate build 54. Steam just updates without asking so I never know what build I am on and the bug report has no mention that this issue was adjusted. It may have been fixed but not documented?

I'm on Steam, but it's 17.8 build 54.

Spritze · 06-09-2016, 09:16 PM

In Build 54 I get this.... The MLB portion is just the standard. The rest are Spritze db players. Rizzuto is a 75 in 1946.

Spritze · 06-10-2016, 05:29 AM

Fielding Ratings Fixed in Patch 56, out soon.

Elysian Fields · 06-10-2016, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

We sent the world database team a list of all the missing birthplaces for every major league player last year. It has not yet been acted on. There are 1,357 of them.

Awesome work! Thanks for the response.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

swampdragon · 06-13-2016, 01:21 PM

I did not see this fix on the change list for the new Beta patch.

Spritze · 06-13-2016, 03:21 PM

The bug report has not been changed either but when I asked I was told it was addressed. It seems like it to me.

swampdragon · 06-14-2016, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

The bug report has not been changed either but when I asked I was told it was addressed. It seems like it to me.

I started a new 1919 game with minors, and everything is back the way it was before the patch that broke major league defense. Major League defense was fixed, and the Texas Leaguers were all 50s. I understand what you said about the stats not being there. Problem is, when I access real-life fielding stats, they are there in the game. They are not on BB-Ref. Are those fielding stats not being used in the import?

06-09-2016, 01:25 PM	#445
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	The MLB is not covered by my comments. That is someone else's bailiwick. I don't know who though. I'll test this today so you will have a confirmation.. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-09-2016, 01:27 PM	#446
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	The old fielding formula worked. You're fixing something that wasn't broken and breaking it in the process. I understand about the minor leagues. If the stats don't exist, then they don't exist. But the formula was right in OOTP 16, and it should be applied to both majors and minors. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

06-09-2016, 07:17 PM	#451
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Well all I can say is I do not get these results. See the attachment attached... Attached Images __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-09-2016, 08:09 PM	#453
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	My league comes from Steam build 56. You may be using Esellerate build 54. Steam just updates without asking so I never know what build I am on and the bug report has no mention that this issue was adjusted. It may have been fixed but not documented? __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-09-2016, 09:16 PM	#455
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	In Build 54 I get this.... The MLB portion is just the standard. The rest are Spritze db players. Rizzuto is a 75 in 1946. Attached Images __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-09-2016, 07:59 PM	#452
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,681 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Did it 3 more times. 50's across the infields. 45 at 1B. If I turn scouting on most guys go to 45. Tried 1972 and guess what.....it works like it's supposed to. So, just as was reported at least a month ago, its baseball from around 1954 and earlier that's ruined.

06-10-2016, 05:29 AM	#456
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Fielding Ratings Fixed in Patch 56, out soon. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-13-2016, 01:21 PM	#458
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	I did not see this fix on the change list for the new Beta patch. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

06-13-2016, 03:21 PM	#459
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	The bug report has not been changed either but when I asked I was told it was addressed. It seems like it to me. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!