New Non-HW Boxers Rated

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Here's the last of the early career Florentino opponents I'd done some quick ratings on to help play test my Florentino Lightweight ratings.

Angel Chapman Martinez - Cuba Rating 1
Lightweight 1951-60
4 wins / 9 losses / 0 draw / 1 KO

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Lost two consecutive fights to a Baby Williams(18-16-2,7) in November/December 1951. He didn't fight again until he was KO'd in the first round by Wilfredo Hurst(26-11-4,11) in August 1956. After a victory over Chico Morales(31-9-2,9), Martinez lost to Hurst again. After a couple wins against a couple easy targets he got his chance against Florentino Fernandez who was 9-0 at the time. Florentino KO'd Martinez in the 6th round.

Angel won one more fight after the Fernandez bout, then lost his last 4 fights, the final two being to Carlos Hernandez(18-6-1,13) and Chico Morales.


Alexis Garcia - Cuba Rating 1
Lightweight 1956-60
7 wins / 12 losses / 0 draw / 0 KO

Birthplace: Santiago de Cuba

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Started out his career 5-2-0 including a 4 round decision over Wilfredo Hurst(26-11-4,11) all between March and September 1956, then he lost 10 of his last 12 decisions over the next 4 years. One of his 2 other wins was a 10 round decision over Baby Cochet after he'd lost straight KO fights to Baby Diogenes Sagarra and Florentino Fernandez in 1958. He lost two other fights to Wilfredo Hurst.


Ray Estepa - USA Rating 5
Lightweight 1954-1960
21 wins / 15 losses / 6 draws / 3 KO

Hometown: Miami, FL

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Estepa fought his first 28 fights in and around his hometown Miami compiling a 16-7-5,2KO record against the usual assortmant of other local fighters. He defeated busy Featherweight, Mario Colon(12-42-8,0) in his 2nd fight and later lost an 8 round decision to Ray Portilla(22-25-5,4) and a 10 round decision to Rocky Randell(75-52-13,33) in that period. Those beinging his most noteworth opponents until May of 1958 when he traveled out of Florida across the waters to Cuba to take on Florentino Fernandez. Estepa was Florentino's first opponent outside of his homeland Cuba. Estepa was no match for the Cuban as Flortenino dispatched Estepa via 2nd round KO. The only time Estepa was stopped in a fight in his career. Later that year and early in 1959 Ray lost a 10 round decision to Rocky Randell and then fought a 6 round draw with Charley Titone(55-29-11,10) in his last fights with anyone of any consequence. Estepa did manage to win his last 3 career fights, all in a matter of 28 days of each other in August of 1960 and all decision over a guy named Bill Orias(7-11-1,3).

[Rocco Del Sesto]

The very last...

Norman Young - USA Rating 1
Lightweight 1956-59
0 wins / 5 losses / 0 draws / 0 KO

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Lost to Gene Toran(17-2-0,7) in the 1956, Candy McFarland(21-7-1,5) in 57, Len Matthews(42-10-3,29) in 58, Florentino Fernandez in 58 and James Ellis(25-25-2,13) in 59. NOt a all together bad set of opponents Young faced.



Cesar Orta - Venezuela Rating 5
Lightweight 1954-60
14 wins / 5 losses / 1 draw / 2 KO

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Of Orta's 5 losses two were early in his career to a Federico Plummer(12-5-1,5), both 10 round decisions. His other losses were to a Vicente Rivas(16-13-1,3), Florentino Fernandez and Chico Morales(31-9-2,9). He won fights against Fernando Silva(35-19-7,21), Tato Menendez(38-6-2,14), Baby Cochet(21-11-5,3), L.C. MOrgan(79-45-3,57), Chico Medina(15-19-2,7) twice, Angel Robinson Garcia(133-81-21,52) and Mario Rositto(43-11-6,13). He also fought a 10 round draw with Rositto. Not a shabby looking set of opponents.

Interesting to note of his 20 career fights, 15 of them ended in 10 round decisions. The only bout he had lasting under 7 rounds was a 4th round KO suffered at the hands of Florentino Fernandez. Chico Morales KO'd him in 7. His only other non decision fights were 8th round KO victories over a Geoffrey Paugham and a Hugh Perez.


Baby Cochet - Rating 7 Cuba
Lightweight 1948,54-59
21 wins / 11 losses / 5 draws / 3 KO

Alias: Rene Aveille
Hometown: Santa Clara

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Career started out 19-3-2 with 1 NC. Those 3 losses included his first fight in February 1948, a 3rd round KO to Baby Gavilan. Cochet then did not fight again until February 1954 when he fought an 8 round draw with Kid Fichique. Cochet then reeled of 11 wins and an 8 round draw with Lesmes Echevarria. He beat Echevarria in another fight and defeated Juan (Baby Face) Medina twice and Kid Fichique, Marino Gonzalez, and Tomas Castillo in this stretch he then lost a 10 round decision to Castillo in May 1955. Cochet then won three more fights including wins over Fichique and Acorazado Martinez. That set up an April 1956 fight against Fernando Silva for the Cuban Lightweight Title which Cochet won by a 12 round decision. Cochet lost his next fight, a 10 round decision to Rafael Lastre. He then defeated Miguel Diaz, Rocky Randell twice and fought a NC and then a 10 round decision over Jose Ramon Flores setting the stage for February 1957 when he fought Miguel Diaz for the Cuban Welterwieght title. Diaz ended up winning the 10 round decision.

From that point on Cochet's career quickly took the deep south turn downward, going 2-8-3. He lost to Baby Colon, then in May 1957 lost his Cuban Lightweight title to Tato Menendez. In December 1957 he won a 12 round decision against Alberto Bisbe. These two fought 2 months later for the Cuban Light Welterweight Title. Bisbe this time won the 12 round decision. He then lost a 10 round decision to Alexis Garcia, was KO'd in the 1st round by Florentino Fernandez before ending his career with a 10 round draw with Wilfredo Hurst.

[CONN CHRIS]

Torsten May

22(12)-3-0
Hometown - Koln, Germany

Manager - Wilfred Sauerland (who also manages Niclay Valuev)

May sucsessfully campiegned as a Cruiserwight for nine years collecting the German, European and IBF Intercontinental Cruiserweight belts. Possesing decent power but limited defense, May scored victories over Adolpho Washington, Art Jimmerson and Ralf Rocchigiani. He retired shortly after a title loss to Alexander Gurov (29-3-1) in 2001.

If anyone has a pic, that would be great!

[SAL]

Conn, this is what I have.

[SAL]

another Torsten May

[CONN CHRIS]

Very nice work SAL, and quick too. Your hired.

[SAL]

You're welcome Conn. It's the least I could do since everyone is adding fighters to my game. Winter is here and I'll have time to rate some fighters myself and help out a little more.

Scot

[CONN CHRIS]

Jacob Mofokeng

21(18)-7-1

Mofokeng was a hard hitting South African Cruiserweight who collected the South African, IBF Intercontinental and WBU titles. He moved up to the Heavyweight division at the tail end of his career fighting four South African Heavyweights and compiling a 3(3)-1-0 record while winning the South African Heavyweight Title and defending it once before retirement. In doing so, he became the first Black Heavyweight Champion of South Africa.

Jacob's chin and defense were a bit suspect; (all seven of his losses were by stoppage) but he demonstrated decent power thoughout his career even when he stepped up in weight.


Cheers

[CONN CHRIS]

Christophe Girard

40(12)-6-0

Girard was a light-hitting Frenchman that held both the French Light-Heavyweight and Cruiserweight Titles during his twelve-year career. He also lost WBO and European title shots at both divisions including two shots at Light Heavyweight Dariusz Michalczewski.

[CONN CHRIS]

Markus Bott

28(20)-5-0

Bott never fought outside of Germany where he collected the WBO Cruiserweight and German Heavyweight Belts. Holds victories over Tyrone Booze and Ralf Rocchigiani.

[CONN CHRIS]

Nigel Rafferty

26(1)-69-9

Rafferty was a brittish Cruiserweight trial horse. A light hitter with good stamina, Nigel generaly forced his opponents to work for their victories and did manage to win the British Midlands Area Cruiserweight Title at one time. He also fought and lost bouts for the Black County and Irish titles.

[CONN CHRIS]

Egerton Marcus

16(12)-4-1

Born - Georgetown, Guyana
Home - Toronto, Canada

Egerton defeated Art Bayliss to take the NABF Light Heavyweight Title in 1992 which he defended three times before losing to Henry Maske in 1995. Maske had defeated Marcus in the 1988 Olympic Middleweight Gold Medel match. Following the loss to Maske, Marcus stepped up to the Cruiserweight division battling unsuccesfully for the WBC Continental Americas and WBO NABO belts. Then he lost a bid at the IBO Intercontinental Heavyweight Title and finaly lost to Razor Ruddock in a bid for the Canadian Heavyweight Title in 2001. Overall, a relatively inactive fighter with only 21 bouts over a twelve year career.

[hamed]

CONN CHRIS: These are some interesting guys you've added here!

Do you have you the stats like these on Anthony "The Messenger" Thompson? He's that Welter/Jr. Middle from Philly that Bob Arum recently signed. He was unbeaten until just recently when he was TKO'd - almost like Kofi Jantuah. Both have bounced back nicely with wins - especially Kofi with his 1st round blowout of Rubio!

[LeeSkye]

CONN CHRIS and Rocco-thanks for all the fighters-great work!

As my wife says "keep it up!"

[CONN CHRIS]

Thanks, glad you enjoy them. I think Rocco probably does a better job than I do. I just pick a division and then rate either people that I have an odd interest in or ones that catch my eye for some reason.

By way of example:

Mofokeng came to mind with all the Bonds/Giambi news that is flying around. I think that he was stripped of his title because of steroid use or it was threatened. At any rate, he popped into my head, so I checked to see if he was in TBCB, which he wasn't.

Nigel Rafferty was one that I had never heard of. I was surfing for something else and came across a Brittish on-line mag that was talking about some new endorsement this guy had (it was an old mag). The bit was talking about him like he was a big-time player in the fight game and trumpeted some Brittish, Mid-something backyard belt that he had as though he had beaten the man that beat the man. Anyway, I just had to check him out at Boxrec and when I did I couldn't stop from giggling. He had fought for this little belt over and over winning it once, he had also fought for and lost some other equally unimpressive back yard belt. He had a huge number of losses and looked like a typical club fighter (which made that endorsement thing even more funny - it must have been for Pete's pub and car wash on the corner of fifth and nowhere) Upon further look though, I did get a little respect for the guy - he seemed to be a tough customer with pluck, so I rated him.

Then I plucked a few more Cruisers that caught my fancy.

Sorry for the rambling, I just wanted you to know that:

A) I am no expert, and

B) There really is no ryme or reason to who I rate. I'll leave rational approaches to Rocco the engineer.


One other thing when it comes to my ratings, I do not sim 1,000's of fights like it appears that some of you do. I first eyeball the ratings based on the guys record and anything that I have read about him or actualy know. Then I test him by running 50 or so fights in the scheduler against rated boxers he has faced or, if that isn't possible, boxers in the game that I am pretty familiar with and think that I can guess how they would do against. I tweak a bit with each round and stop when I am reasonably satisfied. It is not at all an exhaustive process. So if you are someone that worships at the alter of historicaly accurate replays, you may want to check my ratings to see if you agree before using the boxers. With all that said, I do care about having these guys perform realistically. But, I do look at this as fun and games rather than a science and thought that you should be aware of that - and besides, I'm not charging you guys too much for the service anyway.

Honestly, if any of you with a good handle on rating fighters have some objections to my ratings I would be more than happy to listen and learn.

[CONN CHRIS]

John McClain

Hometown - Las Vegas, Nevada

23(16)-7-2

This Sin City Slugger fought for various pieces of the Cruiserweight title six times in his brief career winning the WBU and WBC Continental variations. McClain possessed the all-too common combination of modest power and weak defense.

Notable opponents included Ezra Sellers (L KO1), Alexander Zolkin (L KO3) and Ernest Mateen (L DEC10).

I will give a hearty "Atta-boy!" to anyone with a picture of Mr. McClain

Cheers

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Thanks, glad you enjoy them. I think Rocco probably does a better job than I do. I just pick a division and then rate either people that I have an odd interest in or ones that catch my eye for some reason.

By way of example:

Mofokeng came to mind with all the Bonds/Giambi news that is flying around. I think that he was stripped of his title because of steroid use or it was threatened. At any rate, he popped into my head, so I checked to see if he was in TBCB, which he wasn't.

Nigel Rafferty was one that I had never heard of. I was surfing for something else and came across a Brittish on-line mag that was talking about some new endorsement this guy had (it was an old mag). The bit was talking about him like he was a big-time player in the fight game and trumpeted some Brittish, Mid-something backyard belt that he had as though he had beaten the man that beat the man. Anyway, I just had to check him out at Boxrec and when I did I couldn't stop from giggling. He had fought for this little belt a number of times and won it once, he had also fought for and lost some other equally unimpressive back yard belt. He had a huge number of losses and looked like a typical club fighter (which made that endorsement thing even more funny - it must have been for Pete's pub and car wash on the corner of fifth and nowhere) Upon further look though, I did get a little respect for the guy - he seemed to be a tough customer with pluck, so I rated him.

Then I plucked a few more Cruisers that caught my fancy.

Sorry for the rambling, I just wanted you to know that:

A) I am no expert, and

B) There really is no ryme or reason to who I rate. I'll leave rational approaches to Rocco the engineer.


One other thing when it comes to my ratings, I do not sim 1,000's of fights like it appears that some of you do. I first eyeball the ratings based on the guys record and anything that I have read about him or actualy know. Then I test him by running 50 or so fights in the scheduler against rated boxers he has faced or, if that isn't possible, boxers in the game that I am pretty familiar with and think that I can guess how they would do against. I tweak a bit with each round and stop when I am reasonably satisfied. It is not at all an exhaustive process. So if you are someone that worships at the alter of historicaly accurate replays, you may want to check my ratings to see if you agree before using the boxers. With all that said, I do care about having these guys perform realistically. But, I do look at this as fun and games rather than a science and thought that you should be aware of that - and besides, I'm not charging you guys too much for the service anyway.

Honestly, if any of you with a good handle on rating fighters have some objections to my ratings I would be more than happy to listen and learn.

Thanks for the kind words Chris and Lee Skye also. I feel anyone who takes the time to put a little effort into coming up with all these fighters to ad to this great game of TBCB have to be commended. Everyone I'm sure have thier different ways of coming up with these guys and I don't profess to have any better way than anyone else. I do know there's a lot of guys on this forum who know MUCH more about boxing then I do. I just like the challenge of seeing what I can do with these ratings.

As far as my rational approach Chris, I have to admit that my intial approach to rating guys was much the same as your doing. I started out just randomly looking at different guys in different time periods who caught my eye, but I've always had most interest in the heavyweights in the 1960's that got me started on my early project in the HW fighters thread with the replay I was doing of Gerhard Zech. I took that up to his career going into 1967 and at that time I decided to undertake the 67 replay I'm doing to help add a wealth of HW's and LHW's from that 60's period. I guess this 67 replay is sort my "universe" that I'm doing. It's sort of a slow plugging challenge getting a fight done here and there but I'm finding it fun and informative into who those top weight division fighters all were in the mid 60's.

Rocco

[CONN CHRIS]

I really enjoyed that whole Zech bit that you did. I followed it along much after-the-fact. I ended up feeling like Zech was my next-door-nieghbor and was really quite down when he lost his first bout in my little universe.

And I am glad that I can say things like that here without being told to seek help. (even if that would be a prudent action to take )

Thanks again Rocco and keep your stick on the ice

(probably only Cap smirked at that, not a lot of Red Green fans here I suspect)

[RickPyz]

Not the best quality but here's a photo of John McClain

[CONN CHRIS]

Atta-Boy RickPyz!