Miscellaneous fighters

[Jackyle]

Originally Posted by Waltercito

Glad you found them. I mostly do girls, which many people don't use, so for convenience's sake I post them in the photos thread.


For me it's amazing how you guys keep this files coming at lightning speed. Rating takes me a lot of time as I tend to watch any material available from the fighter.


Love your work, especially those odd-named TC's. Can't even imagine my universes without them anymore.

Probably should not admit this but I have watched every fighter I have rated. I watch way too much boxing I incorporate it into my exercise though, so I basically get 6 hours of fights per week just doing that.

[bear]

Originally Posted by Waltercito

Glad you found them. I mostly do girls, which many people don't use, so for convenience's sake I post them in the photos thread.


For me it's amazing how you guys keep this files coming at lightning speed. Rating takes me a lot of time as I tend to watch any material available from the fighter.


Love your work, especially those odd-named TC's. Can't even imagine my universes without them anymore.

I've always been a sucker for the odd names when I check out boxrec. Since I'm concentrating on old timers right now I don't have much to watch. With the old timers I have to spend more time considering the opponents the fighter I'm rating faced and their ratings so I keep things harmonious.

[bear]

We all like to watch boxing and I have rated numerous fighters that I've watched over the years. I'd like to pose a hypothetical question. What if the only available tape of a Mike Tyson fight was of his fight with Kevin McBride? How would we rate him as a fighter? Additionally let's say we also had tape of Mike Mollo beating McBride. If we went simply on the basis of tape we could argue that Mollo was better than Tyson, couldn't we? Something for thought.

[Waltercito]

Originally Posted by bear

We all like to watch boxing and I have rated numerous fighters that I've watched over the years. I'd like to pose a hypothetical question. What if the only available tape of a Mike Tyson fight was of his fight with Kevin McBride? How would we rate him as a fighter? Additionally let's say we also had tape of Mike Mollo beating McBride. If we went simply on the basis of tape we could argue that Mollo was better than Tyson, couldn't we? Something for thought.

Absolutely.



Personally, I have caught myself rating girls differently than men. When rating male active fighters, I judge them strictly for what they've done so far, and I follow the "official" rating rules more rigourously. For the girls, however, I tend to take into account potential and the talent I see in them, since we have far less comparison material in womens boxing. For example, Mikayla Nebel stands currently at 2-8, but has given some of the best fighters in her division really tough battles. So, my rating for her came out as a "4" as I could easily visualize her beating any low level girl out there. With a male active fighter with a 2-8 record however I would be really hard-pressed to rate him anything different than a 0.

[bear]

Originally Posted by Waltercito

Absolutely.



Personally, I have caught myself rating girls differently than men. When rating male active fighters, I judge them strictly for what they've done so far, and I follow the "official" rating rules more rigourously. For the girls, however, I tend to take into account potential and the talent I see in them, since we have far less comparison material in womens boxing. For example, Mikayla Nebel stands currently at 2-8, but has given some of the best fighters in her division really tough battles. So, my rating for her came out as a "4" as I could easily visualize her beating any low level girl out there. With a male active fighter with a 2-8 record however I would be really hard-pressed to rate him anything different than a 0.

Active male fighters that are 2-8 are definitely zeros. I'd even have a hard time rating a 2-8 historical boxer higher than 0, but would take intangibles into account. Who were the 8 guys that beat him? What were the ratings for them, and the era in which he fought. I tend to look look at fighters whose careers began prior to 1960 (The era of club fighters) as possibly more polished professionally. Mike Silver's book, The Arc of Boxing, was quite influential in my thinking this. There is also an element of unrecorded bouts especially among depression era boxers who would often fight in smokers to make a buck.

[hamed2]

Originally Posted by bear

We all like to watch boxing and I have rated numerous fighters that I've watched over the years. I'd like to pose a hypothetical question. What if the only available tape of a Mike Tyson fight was of his fight with Kevin McBride? How would we rate him as a fighter? Additionally let's say we also had tape of Mike Mollo beating McBride. If we went simply on the basis of tape we could argue that Mollo was better than Tyson, couldn't we? Something for thought.

It is a tough sport, 1 bad fight can raise questions about the chin, etc. of a fighter on how he's judged years later.

Tom Brady can have 1 bad game or games but he's still a GOAT QB.

[Jackyle]

Dzmitry Miliusha
ID# 723633
9 4 1
4 KOs 3 KOs
Pro Boxing
rating
420 / 2,252
4 / 11
bouts 14
rounds 75
KOs 28.57%

status active
career 2015-2020
born 1990-01-24 / age 30
nationality Belarus
debut 2015-06-12
division super light
stance southpaw
height 5′ 10″ / 178cm
residence Baranovichi, Belarus
birth place Baranovichi, Belarus

[hamed2]

Originally Posted by Jackyle

Probably should not admit this but I have watched every fighter I have rated. I watch way too much boxing I incorporate it into my exercise though, so I basically get 6 hours of fights per week just doing that.

That's great that you put so much research into your ratings.

Your Nate Robinson will soon get a title shot in my universe.

Well deserved, I know.

[Jackyle]

Originally Posted by hamed2

That's great that you put so much research into your ratings.

Your Nate Robinson will soon get a title shot in my universe.

Well deserved, I know.

LOL, that might not go too well for him.

[hamed2]

Originally Posted by Jackyle

LOL, that might not go too well for him.

lol,

I know, Beibut wants a tune up title defense of his IBF belt, to ease back into the water, so to speak.

[Hootowl9]

Originally Posted by bear

Active male fighters that are 2-8 are definitely zeros. I'd even have a hard time rating a 2-8 historical boxer higher than 0, but would take intangibles into account. Who were the 8 guys that beat him? What were the ratings for them, and the era in which he fought. I tend to look look at fighters whose careers began prior to 1960 (The era of club fighters) as possibly more polished professionally. Mike Silver's book, The Arc of Boxing, was quite influential in my thinking this. There is also an element of unrecorded bouts especially among depression era boxers who would often fight in smokers to make a buck.

Originally Posted by bear

Active male fighters that are 2-8 are definitely zeros. I'd even have a hard time rating a 2-8 historical boxer higher than 0, but would take intangibles into account. Who were the 8 guys that beat him? What were the ratings for them, and the era in which he fought. I tend to look look at fighters whose careers began prior to 1960 (The era of club fighters) as possibly more polished professionally. Mike Silver's book, The Arc of Boxing, was quite influential in my thinking this. There is also an element of unrecorded bouts especially among depression era boxers who would often fight in smokers to make a buck.

Strongly agree with bear on this. I'm not nearly as knowledgeable in all aspects of the game and rating fighters as some. At whatever era, I'll look at whom beat the fighter I'm rating, whom he "did" beat. Then the quality of the fighters opponents that beat or lost to the fighter I'm rating.



One thing that always bothered me is when I see a fighter that Has a high "Hit Power" rating and then as I look at his record he/she won 9 of 12 bouts by KO/TKO vs a card filler or a fighter who has worse odd's of winning than the state lottery! Maybe just 2 or 3 bouts.

I guess if you go strictly by the game #'s that's correct, but a 9 Hit Power ! ....REALLY ??!!

I even look at KO vs TKO (that's really the same thing I guess. Consider cut's, or other injuries ect.) Depending on the fighter & number of bout's I sometimes may give a slight increase in "Absorb Punishment"
with a higher if any increase in "Chin vs Knockdown" Defense. So I may be totally wrong on that but I do take it into consideration.

As for the other area's, I almost always give every fighter a 1 Hitting Power, especially on the heavier weights. (not always) Same with 3 pt Punches, at least .25. (again, not always.)


The Arc of Boxing - I really have to find this book! (Online site?)
I'll stop rambling on now.

[bear]

Originally Posted by Hootowl9

Strongly agree with bear on this. I'm not nearly as knowledgeable in all aspects of the game and rating fighters as some. At whatever era, I'll look at whom beat the fighter I'm rating, whom he "did" beat. Then the quality of the fighters opponents that beat or lost to the fighter I'm rating.



One thing that always bothered me is when I see a fighter that Has a high "Hit Power" rating and then as I look at his record he/she won 9 of 12 bouts by KO/TKO vs a card filler or a fighter who has worse odd's of winning than the state lottery! Maybe just 2 or 3 bouts.

I guess if you go strictly by the game #'s that's correct, but a 9 Hit Power ! ....REALLY ??!!

I even look at KO vs TKO (that's really the same thing I guess. Consider cut's, or other injuries ect.) Depending on the fighter & number of bout's I sometimes may give a slight increase in "Absorb Punishment"
with a higher if any increase in "Chin vs Knockdown" Defense. So I may be totally wrong on that but I do take it into consideration.

As for the other area's, I almost always give every fighter a 1 Hitting Power, especially on the heavier weights. (not always) Same with 3 pt Punches, at least .25. (again, not always.)


The Arc of Boxing - I really have to find this book! (Online site?)
I'll stop rambling on now.

Just googled the book. Barnes & Noble and Amazon both carry it. The first page linked to mike Silver's website where you can find some interesting articles. The publisher is McFarland Books and they specialize in an academic market. In my pre-retirement professorial days I ordered a copy for campus library.

[bear]

Originally Posted by Hootowl9

Strongly agree with bear on this. I'm not nearly as knowledgeable in all aspects of the game and rating fighters as some. At whatever era, I'll look at whom beat the fighter I'm rating, whom he "did" beat. Then the quality of the fighters opponents that beat or lost to the fighter I'm rating.



One thing that always bothered me is when I see a fighter that Has a high "Hit Power" rating and then as I look at his record he/she won 9 of 12 bouts by KO/TKO vs a card filler or a fighter who has worse odd's of winning than the state lottery! Maybe just 2 or 3 bouts.

I guess if you go strictly by the game #'s that's correct, but a 9 Hit Power ! ....REALLY ??!!

I even look at KO vs TKO (that's really the same thing I guess. Consider cut's, or other injuries ect.) Depending on the fighter & number of bout's I sometimes may give a slight increase in "Absorb Punishment"
with a higher if any increase in "Chin vs Knockdown" Defense. So I may be totally wrong on that but I do take it into consideration.

As for the other area's, I almost always give every fighter a 1 Hitting Power, especially on the heavier weights. (not always) Same with 3 pt Punches, at least .25. (again, not always.)


The Arc of Boxing - I really have to find this book! (Online site?)
I'll stop rambling on now.

I take a long look at KO/TKO and KO'd by and TKO'd by. How a guy was stopped tells me a lot. Nat Fleisher's insistence that all stoppages were KO's always annoyed be. How the stoppage happened tells me a lot. I can tell if a guy was a bleeder, had a weak chin, or couldn't withstand punishment It can also give me some information about punching power of the opponent.

[Hootowl9]

Originally Posted by bear

I take a long look at KO/TKO and KO'd by and TKO'd by. How a guy was stopped tells me a lot. Nat Fleisher's insistence that all stoppages were KO's always annoyed be. How the stoppage happened tells me a lot. I can tell if a guy was a bleeder, had a weak chin, or couldn't withstand punishment It can also give me some information about punching power of the opponent.

Thx for your input on that KO vs TKO. What you stated is where I was going with that. Often it's hard to rate with limited information.
The good thing with this game is members can always tweak the ratings to fit their UNI consistency or whatever reason.

Thx for the info on the book as well.

[Hootowl9]

Ralph Ruffin - HW
Career Record: Won 4(KO 1) / Lost 1(KO 0) / Draw 1
Residence: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
(H9) - (I.D. 44892)

[Hootowl9]

Jackyle,
Do you have a file for HW Viktor Vykhryst (I.D. 856825)

[bear]

Originally Posted by Hootowl9

Thx for your input on that KO vs TKO. What you stated is where I was going with that. Often it's hard to rate with limited information.
The good thing with this game is members can always tweak the ratings to fit their UNI consistency or whatever reason.

Thx for the info on the book as well.

Mike Silver is a really nice guy. I remember the first boxer I ever rated and posted here. His name was Sam Shumway

Sam Shumway
ID# 035711 Pro Boxing
57 78 5
31 KOs 72 KOs

I couldn't comprehend how a fighter with 72 stoppage losses got so much work. Shumway was an opponent of Tiger Ted Lowry and Mike Silver was in constant contact with him. Mike was good enough to ask Tiger Ted about his recollections of Shumway and shared them with me in email exchanges while I worked on my Shumway file. Shumway headlined the fight card when a new arena in Webster, MA opened in the early 40's. Something I learned in Ring Magazines of the 40's.

I always spend some time with Mike when I see him at the IBHOF inductions.

[Jackyle]

Originally Posted by Hootowl9

Jackyle,
Do you have a file for HW Viktor Vykhryst (I.D. 856825)

He goes by Victor Faust which may be why you dont see it.

[Jackyle]

Jeyson Minda
ID# 698047
14 3 1
8 KOs 3 KOs
Pro Boxing
rating
347 / 1,256
1 / 1
bouts 18
rounds 69
KOs 44.44%

status active
career 2014-2020
birth name Jeyson Alexander Minda Borja
alias Verdugo
born 1993-03-26 / age 27
nationality Ecuador
debut 2014-08-30
division light heavy
stance orthodox
height 6′ 0″ / 183cm
residence Salem, Massachusetts, USA
birth place Quito, Ecuador

[Jackyle]

Michael Magnesi
ID# 732196
18 0 0
10 KOs 0 KOs
Pro Boxing
rating
20 / 1,759
1 / 24
bouts 18
rounds 92
KOs 55.56%

status active
career 2015-2020
titles held International Boxing Organization World Super Feather Title
born 1994-11-18 / age 26
nationality Italy
debut 2015-10-10
division super feather
stance orthodox
height 5′ 6″ / 168cm
residence Cave, Lazio, Italy
birth place Palestrina, Lazio, Italy