New Pitching Model

[OutS|der]

why are pitchers limited to the taller people?
The conventional wisdom of stay tall and get on top is intended to help pitchers to generate downward plane, altering the trajectory of the ball to make life tougher on hitters
is this such a factor that someone say 5"4 say with a 100mph fastball that they wouldn't even get a chance to be a pitcher past little league?
another site i found Does Size Matter (Part 5)

can find quite a few if you search so there must be something to it

[endgame]

I'm certain we're not talking about monumental differential here, guys, and in addition we're talking about an influence cutoff of almost 6'0 tall which most pitchers, in today's modern era are anyway. Markus has already said it doesn't impact historical.

Stamina issues other than this miniscule addition- which he probably just never should have mentioned and no one would have been the wiser or even noticed -have made a bit of headway and changes toward realism. I'd strongly suggest three things: forget it until you see the final product, remembering it's a small, small element of a total revamp; recall the great discussion about adding morale and its 'undue' influence, when really the most problematic influence it's had has been driving players onto the trading block, not anything that's been related to observeable performance influence; finally, while Markus is not infallible, he's always been driven by data that moves the game toward realism in a spirit that doesn't deplete it of its enjoyment, and if enough data and studies now are offering him weight enough to include it, trust him until you compile collectively enough of an argument to present its meaningful shortcomings (pardon the pun) and I'm sure he'll listen. Reacting this early to something you can't measure is a waste of your own energies.

[boshk]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

The crux of the problem with the paper.
" It is possible, regardless of the findings of this article, that there is a correlation between height and a player’s effectiveness or durability at lower levels, but I do not address the issue here, because of insufficient data and confounding variables, such as social pressures that convince shorter people to play positions other than pitcher. " What endgames data shows is that most pitchers are 5'10 to 6'2. With this little difference in height I don't think you are going to see a lot of variance. Again this goes back to the quotation. Shorter guys just don't play pitcher at lower levels. Therefore you don't see guys like 5'6" Jose Altuve playing pitcher. The modern athlete is of at least average height for the most part. Height differences would not be expected to be show at MILB/MLB level because there is not much variation.

Like I said before I think the game is getting it right but maybe not through the correct mechanism.

i was going to comment to something similar of this. i would not think that it is so much that shorter players do not pitch or have stamina. but more that, short players rarely exist in professional sports period. kirby puckett was never supposed to be a professional player because he was too short at 5'8". i guess a better question would be is, how often would "short" players be created in the game.

tim collins is 5'7" and he pitched about 70 innings last year as a RP. i know thats no where near 200 a starter would throw, but its a good chunk of innings for an RP. he even had 8.1 k/9.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by endgame

Reacting this early to something you can't measure is a waste of your own energies.

This so true, but we are so waiting for the RTRs to begin that we need something new to talk about.

[oman19]

I always thought in the past decade or so this was a well known theory among baseball people. Height matters for pitchers. Granted I can't direct you to any studies or anything but have seen and heard it discussed enough that I thought the theory had pretty much taken hold.

[kq76]

My issue with it isn't that I'm disputing that it's what we see in reality, but that do we really need to go there? If 5'10 and under pitchers aren't even drafted then why not just make the game create a lot less of them? And honestly, I don't even know if this isn't the case already and if it is, why go propagating this fallacy at all?

Can I easily ignore it? Yeah, I pay no attention to height and weight as it is so it shouldn't be difficult to continue doing that, but I just don't like the idea that OOTP is joining the crowd with the perception that short people are necessarily inferior. If scouts opened their minds more I wouldn't be surprised to see more 5'10 and under pitchers.

To admit my own prejudice, maybe a big part of my annoyance is that stamina was picked to represent this decrease in potential. I don't know about you guys, but as an over 6'0 person myself I often look at short people as having more stamina than me. I probably wouldn't have even blinked if stuff was chosen as it'd be rare to feel out-powered by a short person.

At the end of the day, though, I agree it is only a minor annoyance. I'd much rather we put more effort into further customizing playoff options.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

why are pitchers limited to the taller people?
The conventional wisdom of stay tall and get on top is intended to help pitchers to generate downward plane, altering the trajectory of the ball to make life tougher on hitters
is this such a factor that someone say 5"4 say with a 100mph fastball that they wouldn't even get a chance to be a pitcher past little league?
another site i found Does Size Matter (Part 5)

can find quite a few if you search so there must be something to it

I suppose if there is no statistical difference in performance between a 6'3" pitcher and 5'10" pitcher it raises the question of whether lowering the mound by 5" in 1969 actually caused any impact, doesn't it?

[oman19]

Originally Posted by kq76

I'd much rather we put more effort into further customizing playoff options.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this by far is what I'm MOST excited about.

[ihatenames]

It's been over a decade since I've had a physics class, but...

Based on what I do know I think this kind of makes sense. A taller person will have a longer arm. With the longer arm he will have more leverage to throw the ball harder. So the shorter the pitcher, the shorter his arm, the more effort he has to put forth to throw the ball hard enough to be effective at a major league level. So it's plausable that could in turn effect stamina.

I'm completely talking out of my lower back, but that's how it makes sense to me...

[endgame]

All this without entertaining the idea that body mass has a 'slight' influence on HRs??? I think that's been the case for three versions now. Chub-power!

[Pacoheadley]

This is probably my favorite new feature in the game, I am gonna love having more realism in bring my pitchers up!

[jmount78]

I am excited about it and if anything, it will be interesting how it will affect our decision making process for the draft. I am guessing here, but I would think that the more SP there are in the draft, that will lead to an increase in signing demands as the pool of SPs increase. Just a thought.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Spanky

Markus, I've been asking about this for years. Where is the real live bullpen? You the game is not much fun if the manager simply has to throw a couple of relivers in the bullpen and leave them there until needed.

It would be great if they lost stamina the longer they were warming up. This should be an easy thing to do. Without a "live bullpen" feature the game loses realism. And, as much as I love baseball and your game, I've all but lost interest in playing."

Please consider this feature now or in the near future.

Spanky

I can't remember when this was not available.

[markprior22]

I think he knows it's in the game. He is claiming that it doesn't work properly. He says he can get a couple guys ready in the 5th inning and bring them in whenever needed without any fatigue penalty. I don't use that feature so I have no idea if it works properly or not.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by markprior22

I think he knows it's in the game. He is claiming that it doesn't work properly. He says he can get a couple guys ready in the 5th inning and bring them in whenever needed without any fatigue penalty. I don't use that feature so I have no idea if it works properly or not.

I don't either but there was a short lived league where I did and I seem to remember fatigue developing. I could be mistaken though.

[PSUColonel]

My question is how does the AI handle warmups? Let's say you are just watching a game? Does it make a difference?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

My question is how does the AI handle warmups? Let's say you are just watching a game? Does it make a difference?

AFAIK the AI doesn't use warmups whether you play against it or watch or sim. That's why I don't use it either.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by RchW

That's why I don't use it either.

Yep, don't use it either because of that.

Remember old Tony LaRussa game? What, a decade ago ? It was using the AI warming up and so was the Frontpage Sports Baseball series.

I still don't understand how something so important isn't in OOTP

[blueturf]

Originally Posted by kq76

I probably wouldn't have even blinked if stuff was chosen as it'd be rare to feel out-powered by a short person.

I agree with this. As Biggio509 said, it may just be the wrong mechanism being used to try and increase the volume of taller/thicker SP's.

Taller/thicker pitchers due tend to be more power pitchers and you would think that would result in lower stamina on average versus the little guy that uses deception, placement and multiple pitches to get a guy out.

I am interested to see how much impact it has and as long as the game occassionally creates a Stu Miller type that is undersized with a great repertoire, I will be happy.

[akw4572]

I'm more excited about this feature than any other. Thanks for letting us know.