Reminder of Terms of Service

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

A little addendum to clear up some confusion, we typically do not enforce the "individuals are limited to a single OOTP account" part of the EULA, as long as the individual does not use the extra PT accounts created with additional licenses for illegal activities like win trading our PP funneling. So, it is okay if you buy multiple copies of the game with the intent to have more than three PT accounts for yourself, if you so desire. Just please make sure you do not violate the other rules.

I appreciate that, especially because you dangle the carrot of nice sales like the All Star sale in front of us when we log in. That only entices existing customers like me that have fun with more teams,

Thanks for making us feel better, Markus!

[Kris Jardine]

Originally Posted by waittilnextyear

There wasn't really a good place to post this (which is probably part of the issue), so I place it here. I noticed a pretty obvious case of "point funneling" recently.

92 "Zach" Britton is a card I own and have been trying to sell periodically and then more seriously this past week. I've noticed that Britton's 'last 7 day average' was 4001 PP at one point--which is odd considering he'd been going for 10-15K PP. Maybe it was a mistake? But that's exactly what the point funneler wants us to believe. I noticed that when I put my 92 Britton up most recently, the last 7 day average had shot up to 36K PP. Which, again, is odd because my card was on the AH almost non-stop for ~15K and no one would touch it.

Anyhow, this seems pretty clear to me that someone is quickly selling cards to one of their accounts at rock bottom prices only to quickly re-sell it to another account at a huge profit. And hope that nobody sees it.

I would appreciate it if the devs had some way of checking into this specific instance, because the anonymous nature of the AH is that there's no specific person that we can report. No paper trail that I can see other than the artificial fluctuations in auction pricing.

Thank you the the heads up. We have reports that we run which will flag these sorts of transactions for the team to take action

[dkgo]

who is the person paying 36K in that scenario? The first part I see happening all over the place now, people grind points on multiple accounts, pull a valuable card, then transfer it to their "main" team. Where are the points coming from in the second transaction though?

[dkgo]

A big problem in this is that an innocent casual player can see the artificial low price and then put their card up for way below the real value

[Westheim]

Are the TOS even available from inside PT itself? I looked and couldn't find it. I know it's in the steamapps/common dump for the Steam version (that I use), and I assume it is bundled likewise with the standalone version, but I wonder how much "2019" that is.

There is the page with links to the forums and to ten different Discord things in PT. It wouldn't hurt to put the PT TOS on a separate page on the OOTP homepage and link to that page from that aforementioned PT page.

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Are the TOS even available from inside PT itself? I looked and couldn't find it. I know it's in the steamapps/common dump for the Steam version (that I use), and I assume it is bundled likewise with the standalone version, but I wonder how much "2019" that is.

There is the page with links to the forums and to ten different Discord things in PT. It wouldn't hurt to put the PT TOS on a separate page on the OOTP homepage and link to that page from that aforementioned PT page.

yes.... while logged into PT:

Main > OOTP Settings > Troubleshooting > Show License information

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by stl jason

yes.... while logged into PT:

Main > OOTP Settings > Troubleshooting > Show License information

Please also post this info in the "Banned from PT" thread. Good eye!

[Westheim]

I think that it is hidden too well. It should be more prominent, *at least* on the page with the other links:

Perfect Team Home / Community

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by Westheim

I think that it is hidden too well. It should be more prominent, *at least* on the page with the other links:

Perfect Team Home / Community

never hurts to suggest more obvious spots for ToS.... could always just put a link in the same line as the "Overview" on the main screen, so there's no excuse to say anyone didn't know where to find it

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by webdox

This 100%. Same as with '19 for me. I have paid good money acquire then sit perfect cards that at the current time and based on what account/team I pulled them on, simply don't jive with my current Theme Team.

So I am now and have been manning a team of Unsung Heroes that are very competitive. I have all 277 of the cards. You can imagine it probably cost me at least $1 to accrue all 277 cards. I should be able to play this team unfettered. However, in doing so I am deactivating several cards that are better than my existing Unsung Roster choices and in doing so I am violating the TOS.

Now if they want to let users like us who have acquired so many different cards and play so many different themes to peel off those cards into 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th accounts then I am all for it (heck I'd even pay a premium to do it)... I just don't see a solution that fits all here...

I have lots of players.....I am more into testing different strategies.
So I swap players out more like ice hockey.....
One season I want to be defensive...then a power team....
But in a lower league i play with lower players.....

It would be nice to compete in theme leagues or OVR leagues.

[atabakin]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

I have lots of players.....I am more into testing different strategies.
So I swap players out more like ice hockey.....
One season I want to be defensive...then a power team....
But in a lower league i play with lower players.....

It would be nice to compete in theme leagues or OVR leagues.

There will never be theme leagues or leagues restricted by overall rating. But these will be options with the upcoming tournaments that have an expected release date of the 12th of Never.

[waittilnextyear]

Another example of PP laundering?

[waittilnextyear]

Price has gone up...

[BigRed75]

Someone appears to (quite literally) be doubling down on that one...

I've got a bunch of Genesis Cabreras - maybe I should try listing them at that price and the alledged launderer might accidentally by one of mine instead!

[waittilnextyear]

Originally Posted by BigRed75

Someone appears to (quite literally) be doubling down on that one...

I've got a bunch of Genesis Cabreras - maybe I should try listing them at that price and the alledged launderer might accidentally by one of mine instead!

It's actually a pretty smart scam to do it with a worthless player like this because there'll be so much volume at ~10 PP that the last 7-day price will come down pretty quickly and the cheater can "cover his tracks" so to speak. It just so happens that the player base is large enough and active enough that we normally see this funky activity anyway.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by waittilnextyear

It's actually a pretty smart scam to do it with a worthless player like this because there'll be so much volume at ~10 PP that the last 7-day price will come down pretty quickly and the cheater can "cover his tracks" so to speak. It just so happens that the player base is large enough and active enough that we normally see this funky activity anyway.

I claim the opposite. It obviously sticks out like a sore thumb. Best thing to do would be with a live gold card where there is a certain base price that you remain close to, relatively speaking.

And I will state first that some, me included, doubt that the "average" is actually an average, but if it were…:

Say, you want to shift 10k PP from one account to the next. If you use the Genesis Cabrera that gets sold, maybe, 20 times a week for 15 PP on average, and move one for 10k, the new true average would be:

(20*15) + (10,000) / 21 = 490

If you take some middle-of-the-road gold card that sells 20 times a week for 1,500 PP and you move that one for 11,500 (to shuffle actual 10k of value) …:

(20*1,500) + (11,500) / 21 = 1,976

Even with these token numbers and a relatively small amount of PP moved, the Genesis card jumps 33-fold in value, the equivalent of robbing a store with a bright pink getaway car in broad daylight, while the gold card only adds about 32%, which is not outrageous considering weekly fluctuations and might actually be invisible for a card that maybe dropped three or four or five points this week.

[Sipimi]

The opposite of laudering - sending a great card for (almost) nothing...

[Ty Cobb]

Hope you bought it. That's an opportunity to score an easy turnaround!

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Sipimi

The opposite of laudering - sending a great card for (almost) nothing...

Step 1: List the card for the minimum bid.
Step 2: Have your friend buy it.
Step 3: Have your friend list the card for the minimum bid (plus the AH fee if you are being nice).
Step 4: Buy it for your other team.

It's still laundering and still cheating.

[Dogberry99]

Or it could have been someone neglecting or forgetting to alter the default bid price on a short auction. I hate that it happens, but selling low is not the same as purchasing high. Buying is a far more deliberate action, and is therefore more reliably reflective of intent.