Very disappointing decision 2.0

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by ehalt

I didn't know the concept of "customer feedback" was new to anybody, but it's worth looking up if you haven't heard of it.

And again, if this issue doesn't concern you, please leave the thread. Nobody forced you to be here.

All that could have been said has already been said in that other thread, I am sure the devs are 1000% aware of everything that has been said. But lets open another thread to just say the same things over and over again and nothing new is going to happen other than give you something to pretend matters in the grand scheme of things and you can pretend to be outraged over.

Do us a little experiment and find some random stranger in the street and walk up to them and tell them all about the atrocities of a computer baseball league being scrambled in your saved game, and I bet their reaction will be "That sucks, but oh well" and they will go about their lives not giving it a second thought.

But keep opening new threads about it so you can keep talking in circles.

[ehalt]

Please give your sermons elsewhere. Nobody here is interested in them.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by ehalt

Please give your sermons elsewhere. Nobody here is interested in them.

And yet you keep replying

[MathBandit]

If this is a thread for genuine customer feedback regarding the recent changes, then let me offer mine:

I think this is a really terrible situation for all involved and I know some very draconian measures had to be taken, but I appreciate the way it was handled in many regards. I think it was nice for the patch notes to be (relatively) clear and concise rather than vague so that anyone who clicked the download knew exactly what was coming, and I appreciate that instead of wiping the leagues entirely they were just geographically displaced so that our fake baseball leagues can go on rather than having to be completely started over from scratch if the league just vanished. I also appreciate the significant effort that was put into trying to salvage and retain as many of the modding threads and mods as possible, rather than taking a heavy-fisted approach of nuking it all and telling everyone to start over based on the new parameters.

I am hopeful that some of the kinks in the execution can be worked out prior to OOTP24 and that there is a way to move forward to allow those people who do have strong feelings about having baseball in a specific country can have that itch scratched.

[ashantewarrier]

As a long time customer who has played this game since 2003 (on the boards since 2004), I find this news disappointing. However, I do empathize with Markus and the OOTP developers as their hands were tied. Having the non-steam version of OOTP23, I personally chose not to apply the latest patches.


We've come a long way from the days of "It's YOUR game, play it your way."

[ehalt]

You and I have very different standards for how we should be treated by companies I guess, MathBandit. Perhaps it has something to do with those kinks you mentioned. For me, damaging my product after I've purchased it from you is so far beyond an acceptable company-consumer relationship that I'd never dream of saying, "I appreciate the way it was handled." I agree with you that doing things like trying to protect mods as best as possible was a good move, but that doesn't come close to balancing things out.

I'm also not sure where you're getting "clear and concise" from or the idea that people "knew exactly what was coming." You've seen all the people asking what exactly has been changed, haven't you?

[silvam14]

I’ve been around since OOTP3 myself. Obviously not thrilled with what is being done to save games even though it hardly affects me as I don’t play Japan leagues. I’d say for the first 15 years (man that’s a long time) I played straight fictional. I might look into going back to that now.


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[RaUni]

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

As a long time customer who has played this game since 2003 (on the boards since 2004), I find this news disappointing. However, I do empathize with Markus and the OOTP developers as their hands were tied. Having the non-steam version of OOTP23, I personally chose not to apply the latest patches.


We've come a long way from the days of "It's YOUR game, play it your way."

Do you have a source on how their hands were tied? Did I miss something? Because I'm pretty sure they haven't said anything

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[Ty Cobb]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Just a reiteration of what Markus told everyone here. https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=342760

Other than that, just a few discussions about saving mod threads with mixtures of information. One mod (tnfoto) spent hours salvaging the negro league photos in the mod section by parsing out all the 'offending' posts from over the years.

he deserves our gratitude. He has mine.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I’ve been around since OOTP3 myself. Obviously not thrilled with what is being done to save games even though it hardly affects me as I don’t play Japan leagues. I’d say for the first 15 years (man that’s a long time) I played straight fictional. I might look into going back to that now.


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We're both old timers around here.

I use to play straight fictional myself. After this dilemma I'll be going back to fictional with the next release. My concern is that the entire nation of Japan being removed from the game and blocked from being created.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

My concern is that the entire nation of Japan being removed from the game and blocked from being created.

I believe (and others can correct me if I'm wrong), but that might be misinformation from some of the fearmongering on the boards the last few days.

The game still allows tons of Japanese players; I think my current save has about 500 players from Japan post-update. It is also my understanding that purely fictional Japanese leagues weren't touched, as long as it was actually fictional and neither the names/logos/etc nor league structure were based on a specific real-life league.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

I believe (and others can correct me if I'm wrong), but that might be misinformation from some of the fearmongering on the boards the last few days.

The game still allows tons of Japanese players; I think my current save has about 500 players from Japan post-update. It is also my understanding that purely fictional Japanese leagues weren't touched, as long as it was actually fictional and neither the names/logos/etc nor league structure were based on a specific real-life league.

That matches what I've seen. The issues are with the [redacted] league, not the nation of Japan itself, which means Japanese players playing outside that league are unaffected by the bug, while non-Japanese players playing in [redacted] league get messed up. The confusion over fictional leagues is because it seems as though you also can't create a "fictional" league that's just an exact copy off the [redacted] league.

At least, that's the best I've been able to gather. It would help a lot for clarity's sake if mentions of [redacted] league weren't banned altogether, so that conversations about what the bug does and doesn't affect are easier to parse.

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I’ve been around since OOTP3 myself. Obviously not thrilled with what is being done to save games even though it hardly affects me as I don’t play Japan leagues. I’d say for the first 15 years (man that’s a long time) I played straight fictional. I might look into going back to that now.


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I have every version since 6.0 and a few prior to 6.0 but not consecutive. have 15 onward active on my box.
I have every FHM except current one & both TBCB - I actually contributed some useful stuff in TBCB I still check that forum every now and again


It has been pointed out to me that if I dont actively play a team from japan then I am just whinning.... apparently setting everything up and playing in God-mode is not a thing... despite that being my preferred way of playing since forever - odd.... oh and I play fictional players BUT actual teams cause you know I play it my way.



I never knew I was doing it wrongly

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by RaUni

Do you have a source on how their hands were tied? Did I miss something? Because I'm pretty sure they haven't said anything

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Most likely it's the benefit of the doubt since most of us that have been around pre the v 6.5 mess, we know how they operate and they have always been transparent when they actually could say something.

A lot of people are unhappy and have vented, but harping on it is not going to change anything. So why not wait and see what they have to say when they do say something more about the situation instead of jumping to conclusions, and if their response is no better than the deafening silence, then they deserve all the venom that we (the community) gives them.

[Kobeck]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

The opening of new threads to beat a dead horse is the definition of that.

Please close this one too, it will only spin out of control.

I did not open this thread

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

Most likely it's the benefit of the doubt since most of us that have been around pre the v 6.5 mess, we know how they operate and they have always been transparent when they actually could say something.

A lot of people are unhappy and have vented, but harping on it is not going to change anything. So why not wait and see what they have to say when they do say something more about the situation instead of jumping to conclusions, and if their response is no better than the deafening silence, then they deserve all the venom that we (the community) gives them.

The first paragraph would be more relevant if there wasn't a recent change in ownership. The announcement on this forum about the new patch/bug specifically said, "We have been asked by Com2uS HQ..." So while I'd love to join you in giving the benefit of the doubt, that doesn't seem warranted.

As for the second paragraph, here's an alternate idea: the people who want to vent until we get some sort of statement can continue to vent, and the people who want to wait and see can wait and see. Work for you?

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by ehalt

The first paragraph would be more relevant if there wasn't a recent change in ownership. The announcement on this forum about the new patch/bug specifically said, "We have been asked by Com2uS HQ..." So while I'd love to join you in giving the benefit of the doubt, that doesn't seem warranted.

As for the second paragraph, here's an alternate idea: the people who want to vent until we get some sort of statement can continue to vent, and the people who want to wait and see can wait and see. Work for you?

Seeing as Markus is still involved and is still in charge of OOTP despite the sale to Com2US, yes they do deserve the benefit of the doubt until we hear otherwise. If he was no longer there, then I would agree with you. Anything else is just jumping to conclusions, but you do you.

As for your 2nd paragraph, you just keep beating that dead horse, nothing is going to change and you will still be fake outraged over something that will be forgotten in a couple months. As I said, you do you and keep on being miserable over some little digital fake baseball universe.

[ehalt]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

you just keep beating that dead horse

Didn't the patch come out literally yesterday? I don't think horses typically die that quickly. Again, if the topic doesn't interest you, you're more than welcome to leave.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by ehalt

Didn't the patch come out literally yesterday? I don't think horses typically die that quickly. Again, if the topic doesn't interest you, you're more than welcome to leave.

The original announcement and patch to remove the league from any new saves came out on 12/19, but it looks like with all the discussion over a workaround, they saw it and made the "request" to remove/scramble it entirely a day or two ago and the patch was released yesterday.

But seriously, how many different ways can you come up with to say the same thing? We are all upset by it and we get it, a league is no longer in your personal saves as you knew it, but you are so distraught over digital baseball teams and players, that you are going to open 15 threads saying the same things to the same 6 people but in the end nothing anyone says is going to change that your saves are all changed forever, unless you did not patch the game.

As I said, you do you....keep on whining til the sun comes up, it isn't going to change anything. Either buy the next version or don't, go back to a previous version or don't. Do what makes you happy, just do you.

[RaUni]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

Most likely it's the benefit of the doubt since most of us that have been around pre the v 6.5 mess, we know how they operate and they have always been transparent when they actually could say something.



A lot of people are unhappy and have vented, but harping on it is not going to change anything. So why not wait and see what they have to say when they do say something more about the situation instead of jumping to conclusions, and if their response is no better than the deafening silence, then they deserve all the venom that we (the community) gives them.

I've had every version of OOTP. I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I'm going by based on what happened. Their actions. With no words from their end.

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