Ootp wiki

[biggerme]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

Yup. The devs should be ashamed (they aren't) that unpaid slaves are doing their work.

They can continue with (what i heard) day trading, happy others do the work

Just why? What do you hope to achieve by these statements?

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

Yup. The devs should be ashamed (they aren't) that unpaid slaves are doing their work.

They can continue with (what i heard) day trading, happy others do the work

Originally Posted by biggerme

Just why? What do you hope to achieve by these statements?

Well, he can't be accused of being an enabler! LOL.

[Guthrien]

Day trading? Haha, is that more lucrative than fringe game development? Well, the 'slaves' have a pretty healthy secondary community of knowledge, there are worse fates than putting some of it in a clearinghouse for other fanatics. Besides, then we only have to train the AI on one site.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

Yup. The devs should be ashamed (they aren't) that unpaid slaves are doing their work.

They can continue with (what i heard) day trading, happy others do the work

You must not play very many current online games. There are TONS and TONS of fan run wiki's out there for games... The site is called https://www.fandom.com/ people put out their power rankings, their tier rankings, they post what weapons might be best for whatever characters, what mash of characters make the best teams. I am in my late 40's and I grew up with game manuals, but they are starting to become very rare and more fan based stuff is the go to for the info you are looking for.

But to attack the Devs? They don't have the say to what info goes out, they are the devs, they code the game. There are people in suits that make the decisions of if there should be time put in to doing a manual. You have to remember, this game is owned by COM2US the Devs work for COM2US. Maybe email cooperate and complain to them over bashing the devs on the forums.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by twins_34

You must not play very many current online games. There are TONS and TONS of fan run wiki's out there for games... .

The gamer addicts have the reputation and stereotyping that they have for a reason

Just because the game companies found that they can count on their customers to do the work for them without having to pay them, it doesn't mean that it's right.... it just means there's a lot of kids needing to log off and move out of mom's basement at some point before they turn 40.

You're right, manuals do seem to be becoming a thing of the past with a lot of games, but the companies knowing that they can exploit a portion of their customer base for that free labor doesn't mean that it's right.

[Statsman1]

If you are at all familiar with Path Of Exile, you might see a parallel between a very complicated baseball simulation and a very complicated ARPG.

Without fan content and help, PoE would be an impenetrable fog. I am not suggesting they get paid or don't but my point is that Grinding Gear Games did not exactly provide stellar documentation for their game, and without that fan support, it would be impossible for a new person to get into it.

Anyone contributing to an OOTP wiki would be doing it out of love for the game, and accordingly would deserve accolades, huzzahs and thanks from the users who use it. Should COM2USA choose to compensate anyone, that would be on them, but it shouldn't be the motivation to work on it.

Just my opinion.

[jcard]

Originally Posted by md40022

The gamer addicts have the reputation and stereotyping that they have for a reason

Just because the game companies found that they can count on their customers to do the work for them without having to pay them, it doesn't mean that it's right.... it just means there's a lot of kids needing to log off and move out of mom's basement at some point before they turn 40.

You're right, manuals do seem to be becoming a thing of the past with a lot of games, but the companies knowing that they can exploit a portion of their customer base for that free labor doesn't mean that it's right.

True. Particularly in the gaming space; the dynamics of Kickstarter are another example of an unsophisticated economic audience being its own worst enemy. While in a perfect world the suppliers would hold themselves to a higher standard, the reality is that—whether presidential nominees or niche hobby products—the market offers no more than what is demanded of it. Unfortunately, we each only get what the majority deserves. My personal belief is that the expectations that prevail here are far too lenient, made more frustrating by the insistence on accommodating the narrative that OOTPD is somehow different from any other company. Can’t blame the makers, and I have come to realize that the base here is what it is. I am trying to learn to just acknowledge that so many are enthralled by the shadows dancing on the wall, and act in a way that is fair to them and myself: by on the one hand not repeatedly haranguing others to see what they cannot, and on the other being realistic about what I can get out of the game without embracing the shibboleths.

[biggerme]

Originally Posted by md40022

The gamer addicts have the reputation and stereotyping that they have for a reason

Just because the game companies found that they can count on their customers to do the work for them without having to pay them, it doesn't mean that it's right.... it just means there's a lot of kids needing to log off and move out of mom's basement at some point before they turn 40.

You're right, manuals do seem to be becoming a thing of the past with a lot of games, but the companies knowing that they can exploit a portion of their customer base for that free labor doesn't mean that it's right.

Well, I have invested heavily in OOTP over the years, and in all that time compared to other games (sims, RPGs, etc.), I have always struggled to find good analysis and guides on how the game behaves. The manual gives hints, but how things play out when you try something depends entirely on someone who has done the grind and figured out some patterns or learnings.

Yes, there are plenty of historic threads in the forums, but they tend to get lost over time. There isn't a repository where you can go back and investigate what the knowledge was and how it has evolved with new releases.

This means I have done a massive amount of reverse engineering to better interpret outcomes from ratings. Sometimes I understand them quite well, but other times I'm just stumped. I can't see the pattern, and the manual's explanation is general enough to be correct but practically useless. It's like stating that you cannot exceed the speed limit, but not specifying what the speed limit is.

But yeah, that's just me, and I have nothing against sharing those learnings, even in a competitive online format, which might backfire because I had some knowledge that gave me an edge in some formats.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by jcard

True. Particularly in the gaming space; the dynamics of Kickstarter are another example of an unsophisticated economic audience being its own worst enemy. While in a perfect world the suppliers would hold themselves to a higher standard, the reality is that—whether presidential nominees or niche hobby products—the market offers no more than what is demanded of it. Unfortunately, we each only get what the majority deserves. My personal belief is that the expectations that prevail here are far too lenient, made more frustrating by the insistence on accommodating the narrative that OOTPD is somehow different from any other company. Can’t blame the makers, and I have come to realize that the base here is what it is. I am trying to learn to just acknowledge that so many are enthralled by the shadows dancing on the wall, and act in a way that is fair to them and myself: by on the one hand not repeatedly haranguing others to see what they cannot, and on the other being realistic about what I can get out of the game without embracing the shibboleths.

A lot of accuracy in this

[Ty Cobb]

to include my skybox creation tutorial as part of this if you wish.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=344445

[biggerme]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

to include my skybox creation tutorial as part of this if you wish.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=344445

That link to PDF inside the thread does not work

[Pelican]

I realize we all come from varied economic backgrounds, and I am not wealthy. It's important to me that the price of OOTP stay as low as it currently is. And, to borrow the quote, I suppose I have "invested heavily" in the game, over the years. (Based on my many hours of play, I have gotten a fabulous return on those investments.).

In the interest of keeping the price low, I am reluctant to argue for tasking the developers with new responsibilities - for fear that new tasks will require new hires and generate higher prices. That, and my enjoyment of the game and the community, is why I would contribute my time, rather than money. (I'm mostly retired, so time is what I have.) That does not make me a "slave". Slaves don't get to choose what they do. I choose to contribute to a community.

I find that many of those who make demands of the company for more features or products are among those who would complain if the game price goes up to support that additional work. Whereas if we take this on, we are indirectly saving ourselves money, by avoiding adding to the overhead of the company. Simple economics.

[biggerme]

Originally Posted by Pelican

I realize we all come from varied economic backgrounds, and I am not wealthy. It's important to me that the price of OOTP stay as low as it currently is. And, to borrow the quote, I suppose I have "invested heavily" in the game, over the years. (Based on my many hours of play, I have gotten a fabulous return on those investments.).

In the interest of keeping the price low, I am reluctant to argue for tasking the developers with new responsibilities - for fear that new tasks will require new hires and generate higher prices. That, and my enjoyment of the game and the community, is why I would contribute my time, rather than money. (I'm mostly retired, so time is what I have.) That does not make me a "slave". Slaves don't get to choose what they do. I choose to contribute to a community.

I find that many of those who make demands of the company for more features or products are among those who would complain if the game price goes up to support that additional work. Whereas if we take this on, we are indirectly saving ourselves money, by avoiding adding to the overhead of the company. Simple economics.

Purpose of marketing and publishing a game is always about making money, I would never do it for free. That said I have been also Grind type of a player where I take the best pre-release price and then start grinding away at it. It takes more time but it is possible to figure out how to maximize rewards so you can start acquiring premium cards for Tournament and League formats.

And I have nothing against so called whales, they have funded my PP balance quite well, and that unlocks Missions in a reasonable pace. Game needs both sides, ones that keep game financially afloat and then the volume for competitive gameplay.

[Ty Cobb]

Originally Posted by biggerme

That link to PDF inside the thread does not work

when I get back from the doctor's. I'll also fix the original article then.

[biggerme]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

when I get back from the doctor's. I'll also fix the original article then.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by biggerme

The OOTP WIKI link in your posts doesn't work.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by Brad K

The OOTP WIKI link in your posts doesn't work.

which makes it equally as helpful as the current manual

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Brad K

The OOTP WIKI link in your posts doesn't work

.

Originally Posted by md40022

which makes it equally as helpful as the current manual

Even goes to the same page!

[biggerme]

Originally Posted by Brad K

.



Even goes to the same page!

fixed, damn typo

[Ty Cobb]

for Skybox Tutorial!

https://mega.nz/file/nZNUSAJQ#vAUX5o...yOHn4xfROZVMTQ