New HW Boxers Rated

[CONN CHRIS]

Oops, the 2 and 3 point punches were reversed in the ratings above. Corrected versions attached here.

[CONN CHRIS]

Peter Courtney - another bare knuckles heavyweight that I had picked up somewhere with the old game.

[CONN CHRIS]

Tommy Chandler - Another bare knuckle heavyweight that I had a game card for

[Jim_Kidd]

Originally Posted by IceTea

Here is the one I've been using.

The version of Riddick Bowe that comes with the game is awesome. He ranks as a 12. I'm not sure why he's rated that high. I guess to compete with Evander Holyfield, (who has high ratings) he needs to be rated fairly high. Also, Eddie Futch said Bowe had what it took to be the best ever....

Anyway, he always appeared to be lazy to me. He seemed to have a good chin until the end when he had his fights with Golota. Some say he was never the same after his three fights with Holyfield. Before he rose from a knockdown to stop Holyfield in the 3rd fight, he took quite a bit of punishment.

Jim

[Rocco Del Sesto]

01/17/67 Tuesday
Miami, FL, USA
Florentino Fernandez – LHW (42-13-0) vs. Willie Tiger – HW (11-8-1)

In the game Florentino Fernandez is rated a 4. I broke Fernandez's career down into 4 stages that he appeared to fight in, Lightweight, welterweight, Middleweight(where he's probably best known) and then Light Heavyweight. Looking at his opponents as a Light Heavy, I just could not come up with that 4. Maybe a 1 is low but this is how it worked out. I've also rated him in the 3 lighter weight's and will post them under the Non-HW thread.

Florentino Fernandez - Rating 1 Cuba
Light Heavyweight 1967-72
50 wins / 16 losses / 1 draw / 43 KO

Hometown: Havana, Cuba
Trainer: Angelo Dundee
Manager: Chris Dundee

Fernandez was among a few dozen professional fighters who left Cuba after Fidel Castro's rise to power. The lot included Luis Rodriguez, Benny Paret, Isaac Logart, Doug Vaillant, Sugar Ramos, Jose Legra and Jose Napoles. Fernandez was one of the middleweight division's hardest hitters and a favorite among his people. He knocked out 18 straight opponents in Havana, a Cuban record. That streak ended in April of 1960, not because a fighter went the distance against Fernandez,but because it was his last fight in Cuba.

Fernandez's career really can be broken down into 4 stages as he worked himself up from his early days in Cuba as a Lightweight on up through the Light Heavyweight division where he closed out his career. From November 1956 thru May 1959 he fought as a Lightweight in his hometown of Havana, Cuba compiling a 20-0-0 record with 17 KO's including the last 15 fights. It wasn't until he fought Ray Estepa(21-15-6,3) in May 1958 that he began to fight some opponents of any real experience to thier own careers. In October 1958 he knocked out in the 5th round Rocky Randell(75-52-13,33) who was going into the downward side of his career. He then KO'd Baby Cochet(21-11-5,3) and Alberto Bisbe(18-10-3,9) in early rounds. He stopped Eddie Armstrong in March 1959 in the 2nd round and finally in May 1959 he won by 4th round TKO against Paddy DeMarco(75-26-3,8) who was nearing the end of his career.

After the DeMarco fight, Fernandez made both his flight out of Cuba and his move out of the lightweights into the Welterweight class with a clash against Stefan Redl(36-16-4,17) in June 1959 at Madison Square Garden. Fernandez knocked Redl down twice in the 7th round when the bout was stopped giving Fernandez a 7th round TKO victory. It was the start of what was actually a brief period as a welterweight in which Florentino compiled a 7-2-0,4KO record. After the Redl fight, Florentino won a 10 round UD and then a 10 round SD victories against Gaspar Ortega in Miami Beach and Madison Square Garden before returning to his home of Havana, Cuba to KO Wilfredo Hurst(26-11-4,11) in the 3rd round. This set up two fights against Rocky Kalingo(19-12-2,9) in November and December of 1959. The first fight in Caracas, Venezuela, Kalingo won by 1st round TKO at the 1:16 mark in the round. Exactly one month later, two days before Christmas, they fought again, this time in Havana and this time Fernandez was victorious, by 2nd round knockout. After a couple wins against Ralph Dupas(106-23-6,19) and Gerald Gray(23-8-4,6), Florentino came back to Madison Square Garden in June 1960 to take on Emile Griffith(85-24-2,23). Griffith took the fight by a 10 rund unanimous decision.

After the Griffith defeat, Fernandez made the move up in weight class again, to the Middleweight division which outside of Griffith, he fought some the best known opponents of the day of any weight division and overall best competition he fought in any of the divisions he was in. After loosing to Griffith, Fernandez moved up to 154 lbs to take on Phil Moyer(27-8-1,9) in November 1960. Florentinio stopped Moyer in the 5th round. He then defeated Rory Calhoun(45-15-2,21) by 8th round TKO and then KO'd Marcel Pigou(39-8-3,21) in the 2nd round in March 1961. This all quickly earned Fernandez a shot at the NBA World Middleweight Title in August 1961 against Gene Fullmer. Florentino battled Fullmer for 15 rounds only to come up on the short end of a split decision as the referee Ken Shulsen and judge Norman Jorgenson scored it 145-142/148-140 Fullmer to judge Del Markham's 145-143 score for Florentino. In his next fight in January 1962 Florentino lost by 6th round TKO to Dick Tiger when the fight was stopped between the 6th and 7th rounds due to a badly broken nose suffered by Fernandez. Fernandez then lost a 3rd straight fight in April 1962 being stopped by Joey Giambra(27-8-1,9) in the 7th round due to a bad cut eye under Fernandez's eye. Fernandez came back in August 1962 with a 7th round TKO victory over Phil Moyer after he dropped Moyer once in the 2nd round and twice in the 7th. Two months later Fernandez climbed into the ring against Rubin (Hurricane) Carter. Carter knocked out Fernandez in the first round, sending Fernandez flying backward through the ropes at Madison Square Garden.

Fernandez then managed to win 10 of his next 12 fights with wins over Hilario Morales(35-30-4,22), Obdulio Nunez(23-8-0,7), Jose Torres(41-3-1,29), Randy Sandy(24-24-2,8), Joe DeNucci(54-15-4,27), Juan Carlos Rivero twice(51-21-3,12), Johnny Featherman, Tommy Caldwell(7-14-4,4) and Bobo Reckley(7-5-0,5). Other then those last 3 mentioned, none of them pushover fights. He did loose one to Rivero in the first of three straight fights he fought against Rivero, loosing by 10 round UD. He lost by 8th round TKO to Jose Gonzalez(43-21-2,14). After the 1st round KO of Reckley in March 1965, Fernandez had a tough spell through the rest of 65 and thru 1966 as he lost 5 straight fights to Jose Gonzalez, Jimmy Lester(41-20-3,31), Andy Heilman(42-7,3,22), Carl Moore(17-32-5,5), and then a 5th round KO to Rivero. He finally halted the bad streak in December 1966 with a 3rd round KO of Herman (Scatterhawk) Dixon(26-35-6,13).

Turning into 1967, Fernandez then made the decision to move up weight class once again to the Light Heavyweights to take on Willie Tiger(15-15-2,8) in January 1967. He KO'd Tiger in the 3rd round. They fought a rematch the next month in late February and this time it was Fernandez who got stopped in the 3rd round by TKO. In April 1967 Fernandez was then KO'd in the 6th by Lou Gutierrez(61-15-5,38). After the Gutierrez fight, the remainder of Fernandez's career in the LWH'was not against any kind of the level of competion he fought in his middleweight or even welterweight class fights. He won 7 and drew 1 fight against guys like Lou Howard(8-31-1,5)twice, Joey Aska(0-2-1) whom he also fought a 10 round draw with, Joe Moss(9-8-1,3), Jimmy Williams(0-2-0,0), Jerry Evans(28-9-1,19) and Paul Kasper(30-25-0,19). Then in July 1972 Fernandez was KO'd in the 10th round of a scheduled 10 round affair against Vernon McIntosh(15-22-1,13). Fernandez ended his long distinguished career after that. Maybe he really ended it about a dozen fights to late.

Willie Tiger - Rating 1 USA
Heavyweight 1964-70
15 wins / 15 losses / 2 draws / 8 KO

Alias: (Williams)Billy
Hometown: Miami, FL

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Tiger started out his career 11-3-1 fighting a lot of repeated bouts with a Willie Thomas(18-27-6,2), Duke Johnson(16-15-4,2) and Willie Johnson(20-35-2,9). These three guys constituted 10 of Tiger's first 15 fights.After winning an 8 round decision over a LHW Sammy Stone(6-5-1), Stone came back and beat Tiger in another 8 round decsion. That was the start of 8 losses in 9 fights for Tiger. In January 1967 Tiger lost by 3rd round KO to Middleweight great Florentino Fernandez who was working his way into the LHW ranks late in his career. These two fought a rematch a month later and this time Tiger stopped Fernandez in the 3rd round with a TKO victory. After that he was KO'd in the 6th by another of the top middleweights of the 50's and 60's who also was trying to move up in rank late in his career, Lou Gutierrez. After a couple wins against Eddie Talhami(24-12-1,17) and Art Miller(25-37-3,11) and a draw with Miller, Tiger lost 4 out of his last 5 career fights all by TKO or KO including to Ray Anderson, Teddy Wright and George Chuvalo.


The fight....
At the beginning of 1967, Cuban middleweight Fernandez was making a decision to move up to the Light Heavies with hopes of finding new glory in the ring. The past year had not been good to Fernandez who had once been a top contender in the Middleweight division after having progressed up from the lightweight and then welterweights earlier in his career. His most recent fight in late December was against middleweight journeyman, Herman (Scatterhawk) Dixon who sported a 21-21-5 record. Previous to that fight though going back into 1965, Fernandez had lost his last 5 fights, 2 by KO and 3 of them 10 round decisions. Willie Tiger had been bouncing back and forth fighting Light Heavy and Heavyweight fighters while himself fighting up in the heavyweight class, as far as his actual weight goes. Coming into the fight with Fernandez who will fight at 167 lbs to Tiger’s 177, Tiger has lost his last 5 fights, 3 by KO. The fight on this Tuesday in mid January ended probably with shocking end results as Tiger knocked out Fernandez in the 3rd round of this 10 round-scheduled bout.
Our replay of this fight though ended quickly with quite different results. The first round starts out with Fernandez voluntarily moving himself onto the ropes where Tiger throws a flurry of punches which Florentino either blocks or lets slip past him. Florentino then counters with a perfect cross that catches Tiger perfectly and drops Willie to the canvas at 0:44 for a 5 count. It does not take Fernandez long to realize he’s got Tiger hurt and he moves in to finish him off. At 1:10 in the round he lands a piston like jab that turns Tiger’s legs to like Jello. Tiger does a little dance to try and regroup himself, but Fernandez then lands a solid combination that decks Tiger for the 2nd time in this fight at the 1:27 mark. This time Tiger takes an 8 count. Fernandez continues to land blows, jabs, hooks, his whole arsenal when suddenly at the 2:09 mark Fernandez lands a vicious combination and Tiger goes down for a 3rd time in the round! The fight is done, winner by TKO at 2:09 in the 1st round Florentino Fernandez!

As mentioned, I'll post my LW,WW and MW creations for Fernandez in the Non-HW thread.

I'd really like to hear any comments from you boxing experts who maybe know more about Florentino on what you think I did with his ratings. I'm not in the habit of messing with the games original rated fighters, but I thought this was a worthwhile challenge due to the breakdown of opponents over Florentino's career.

[CONN CHRIS]

The Pride of Connecticut (With a HUGE appology to Willie Pep and Marlon Starling who are the real prides of Connecticut)

I am running through the career of our local hero and big-man-about Hartford campus Lawrence Clay-Bey.

These are the files for Lawrence and his first victem Billy McDonald. The fight took place on July 05, 1997 in Moline, IL and McDonald lasted all of 35 seconds. Billy was used to this sort of thing having tried to fit into a ring with Butterbean the previous year.

This is my first attempt at filling in Biographies, and I am not sure that I did it correctly. If some could download these and let me know if my Bios follow them I would be much obliged.

Cheers

[CONN CHRIS]

Lawrence Clay-Bey's second career fight was a round two KO of Toledo club fighter Jason Farley. Farley also has been beaten like a rented mule by Butterbean and Samuel Peter. The bout took place on July 20, 1997 at the Fantasy Springs Casino in Indio, California.

Also, I earlier posted a rating for Clay-Bey's trainer and former New England Middleweight Champion John Scully over in the New non heavyweight thread.

Cheers

[Grunion]

I took a shot at rating Joe Hipp. I know he is already listed on Cornerwork.com, but it was a good starting point for me, as I actually used to follow him for some ungodly reason.

Hipp fought six TBCB retired fighters (Marvin Camel, David Bey, Bert Cooper, Tommy Morrison, Jose Ribalta & Bruce Seldon). After I took my first shot at rating Hipp, I simmed him against Camel, Bey, Cooper and Morrison. Attached is Hipp's file, after several iterations of testing.

In case anyone is interested, the last batch of simmed results are as follows (all fights are set for 10 rounds):

Hipp vs. Camel
Real Life: Hipp TKO6
Simmed Results: Hipp (Pre Prime) v. Camel (End)

Joe Hipp 86 Wins 8 Losses 6 Draws
Win Breakout
34 by UD
6 by SD
4 by MD
33 by KO
9 by TKO
Average Round of stoppage: 5.3

Hipp vs. Cooper
Real Life: Cooper TKO5
Simmed Results: Hipp (Prime) v. Cooper (Prime)

Bert Cooper 82 Wins 15 Losses 3 Draws
Win Breakout
34 by UD
1 by SD
1 by MD
9 by KO
37 by TKO
Average Round of stoppage: 5.8

Hipp vs. Bey
Real Life: Hipp TKO7
Simmed Results: Hipp (Prime) v. Bey (End)

Joe Hipp 87 Wins 9 Losses 4 Draws
Win Breakout
32 by UD
3 by SD
4 by MD
31 by KO
17 by TKO
Average Round of stoppage: 5.7

Hipp vs. Morrison
Real Life: Morrison TKO9
Simmed Results: Hipp (Prime) v. Morrison (Prime)

Tommy Morrison 96 Wins 4 Losses 0 Draws
Win Breakout
8 by UD
1 by SD
1 by MD
17 by KO
69 by TKO
Average Round of stoppage: 5.1

[Grunion]

My second attempt is Ed (Gunboat) Smith. HW from 1909-1921. I didn't have him in my TBCB database, but when I created him, his photo popped up, so I'm guessing this is another somewhat redundant effort.

Smith has numerous opponents in the TBCB database. I used the following fights to test him:
1913 v. Bombadier Billy Wells
1913 v. Jess Willard
1913 v. Sam Langford
1914 v. Sam Langford
Three fights against Battling Levinsky in 1914-1915 where they each picked up a decision and drew once.

In case anyone is interested, the last batch of simmed results are as follows:

Smith vs. Wells
Real Life: Smith KO2
Simmed Results: Smith (Prime) v. Wells (Pre Prime)

Gunboat Smith 97 Wins 3 Losses 0 Draws
Win Breakout
38 by UD
0 by SD
0 by MD
30 by KO
29 by TKO
Average Round of stoppage: 5.2

Smith vs. Willard
Real Life: Smith Dec. (20 Rounds)
Simmed Results: Smith (Prime) v. Willard (Pre Prime)

Gunboat Smith 70 Wins 23 Losses 7 Draws
Win Breakout
36 by UD
6 by SD
4 by MD
11 by KO
13 by TKO
Average Round of stoppage: 6.2

Smith vs. Langford (1913)
Real Life: Smith Dec. (12 Rounds)
Simmed Results: Smith (Prime) v. Langford (Post Prime)

Gunboat Smith 48 Wins 40 Losses 12 Draws
Win Breakout
21 by UD
12 by SD
1 by MD
9 by KO
5 by TKO
Average Round of stoppage: 5.7

Smith vs. Langford (1914)
Real Life: Langford KO3
Simmed Results: Smith (Post Prime) v. Langford (Post Prime)

Sam Langford 91 Wins 7 Losses 2 Draws
Win Breakout
46 by UD
1 by SD
2 by MD
28 by KO
14 by TKO
Average Round of stoppage: 5.9


Smith vs. Levinsky
Real Life: Smith W10, Draw, Levinsky W20
Simmed Results:Smith (Post Prime) v. Levinsky (Prime)

Gunboat Smith 35 Wins
Win Breakout
16 by UD
5 by SD
7 by MD
3 by KO
4 by TKO

Battling Levinsky 52 Wins
Win Breakout
35 by UD
8 by SD
7 by MD
2 by KO
0 by TKO

13 Draws

[LeeSkye]

Grunion .
Just in case-have you been over to cornerwork to download all the fighters there? Guys like Gunboat Smith should be there in the files you can download. It might save you a lot of work typin' on the old keyboard! Then you can spend your time tweaking them to your hearts content. Look forward to more.

[Grunion]

LeeSkye,

I already access the encyclopedia section of cornerwork (where Hipp is already listed). I'm planning to download the fighter packs this week.

I'm a bit of a replay freak, my wife looks at me funny when I explain that I autosimmed Joe Hipp 5,000 times aver the last two days.

I'm sure I be making a lot of tweaks. I would be more than happy to post them with testing results, but I don't want anyone getting upset with me tweaking and posting boxers that were created by others. I also do not want anyone to consider my tweaks "better" or more realistic than others. I'm just relying very heavily on sim results versus historical outcomes.

I figure on rating or tweaking anyone that I can get three valid data points on. These would ideally be at least three fights against TBCB rated boxers; each fighter between pre-prime and post-prime, with at least one being a loss, and at least one bout vs. a boxer and a slugger.

[LeeSkye]

I'm a bit of a replay freak, my wife looks at me funny when I explain that I autosimmed Joe Hipp 5,000 times aver the last two days

Sounds familiar.


Look forward to your work and I hope you can add a lot of news ones 'cause I can use em.

[CONN CHRIS]

Lawrence Clay-Bey's third fight was against Bryant Smith, a slightly more experienced fighter, but similar results. Clay-Bey scored a TKO victory in round two on August 23, 1997 in Atlantic City. Smith met the canvas in both rounds.

[CONN CHRIS]

Clay-Bey came home to Connecticut for his fourth pro fight. Lawrence took on Dan Conway, at the time an undefeated club fighter from the Boston area. Conway provided a bit more work for Clay-Bey and didn't drop until the fourth round. Conway has since retired after suffering losses to Melito, Entienne and Albert Sosnowski.

[IceTea]

Sergei Lyakhovich HW 22-1 14 KOs
- Just defeated Dominick Quinn
- was kod by M. HARRIS, says he is a completly different fighter since hooking-up with Kenny Weldon

[CONN CHRIS]

Lawrence Clay-Bay's next ten fights included eight boxers that have already been ranked within TBCB. This series of bouts saw Clay-Bey drop his first match, a 10 round unanimous decision to Clifford Etienne.

Clay-Bey followed his first loss with a match against Ken Murphy, which looks like a safe selection given Murphy's record today of 22-21-2. However, at the time that Clay-Bey took the fight, Murphy was 21-2-1 and was fresh off his WBA Cruiserweight bout with Tiozzo.

Results from these 10 fights are as follows:

Tony LaRosa W TKO2 (rated in TBCB)
Louis Monaco W UD8 (rated in TBCB)
Mario Cawley W TKO2 (rated in TBCB)
Nate Tubbs W TKO4 (rated in TBCB)
Abdul Muhaymin W TKO3 (rating attached)
Dale Crowe W UD8 (rated in TBCB)
Robert Daniels W UD10 (rated in TBCB)
Mike Williams W TKO6 (rated in TBCB)
Clifford Etienne LUD10 (rated in TBCB)
Ken Murphy W TKO5 (rating attached)

[CONN CHRIS]

Clay-Bey's last 9 fights are as follws. Notably, he suffered his second loss to Eliecer Castillo and scored wins over Charles Shufford and Imamu Mayfield.

Agustin Corpus W UD8 (rating attached)
Gary Winmon W TKO6 (rated in TBCB)
Brian Nix W TKO3 (rated in TBCB)
Sedrick Fields W TKO2 (rated in TBCB)
Charles Shufford W UD10 (rated in TBCB)
Eliecer Castillo L KO9 (rated in TBCB)
Carlton Johnson W KO3 (rating attached)
Imamu Mayfield W TKO5 (rated in TBCB)
Otis Tisdale W TKO8 (rating attached)

[jofre]

Originally Posted by IceTea

Sergei Lyakhovich HW 22-1 14 KOs
- Just defeated Dominick Quinn
- was kod by M. HARRIS, says he is a completly different fighter since hooking-up with Kenny Weldon

He outworked Guinn (the more talented fighter) and won a ten round unanimous decision last night.

"Sergui Liakhovich (22-1, 14 KOs) won a ten round unanimous decision over Dominick Guinn (25-2, 18 KOs). Liakhovich was busier and landed more clean shots as he took a 96-94, 97-93, 96-94. For Guinn, who last year was considered one of the heavyweight division's brightest prospects, it was the second loss in his last three fights." FIGHTNEWS

[CONN CHRIS]

Brian Yates - Heavyweight

13(6)-86-3
Hometown - Indianapolis, IN
A journeyman workhorse that would take any fight anywhere.
Some notable heavyweights that have padded their records with the help of Mr. Yates include Orlin Norris, Bert Cooper, Gary Winmon, Donovan Ruddock, Oliver McCall, Wimpy Halstead and Iran Barkley.
Holds a win over an aged Earnie Shavers who shouldn't have even been given a licsense to fight.

[IceTea]

Originally Posted by jofre

He outworked Guinn (the more talented fighter) and won a ten round unanimous decision last night.

"Sergui Liakhovich (22-1, 14 KOs) won a ten round unanimous decision over Dominick Guinn (25-2, 18 KOs). Liakhovich was busier and landed more clean shots as he took a 96-94, 97-93, 96-94. For Guinn, who last year was considered one of the heavyweight division's brightest prospects, it was the second loss in his last three fights." FIGHTNEWS

I don't buy the more talented line. In boxing, heart and the ability to adjust are as important as the number of pushups you can do in one minute or how fast your hands are. Lyakhovich is big and has power in both hands, plus he took the jab of Guinn's away and Guinn was clueless about what to do about it. In my opinion, Guinn is extremely limited. He does own above average punching power and a good beard, but will never sniff serious consideration as a top ten heavyweight.

MJ

MJ