New HW Boxers Rated

[Rocco Del Sesto]

While sitting here listening to the radio broadcast of the first Louis/Schmeling fight from the link IceTea provided I worked on this rating of Bill Nielsen. Someone posted a photo(forget who) of him in one of the other threads.

23 wins / 12 losses / 3 draws / 13 KO

Hometown: Omaha, NE
Manager: Lee Sloan/Pinky George

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Compiled a 20-2-1 record from 1960 through April 1963. The losses in that time were a 7th round KO to Wayne Bethea in Jan. 1961 and a 10 round decision loss to Tony Hughes in Nov. 1962. Lou Bailey, Ernie Cab, Mariano Echevarria and Joe Bygraves are some of the other name fighters we've seen that Nielsen defeated in this time. Otherwise it was the usual array of club fighter names that were his early victories.

After the Bygraves fight, he began to take on some of the middle echelon quality in the heavyweights in the mid to late 60's. Here though, Nielsen proved pretty much overmatched. His only wins over the remainder of his career were a TKO over Billy Walker, a DQ win over Johnny Prescott and a TKO over Memphis Al Jones. He lost fights to Tom McNeeley, Brian London, Billy Walker, George Chuvalo, Roberto Davila, Johnny Prescott, Jack Bodell, a Ben Black(5-6-1), Jerry Quarry. After the Quarry fight he fought a 10 round draw with an undefeated LHW out of Pittsburgh, PA, Jack Rodgers(22-0 at the time). That was in June 1967. Then in October 1967 he was stopped in the 4th round by Boone Kirkman.

[IceTea]

Glad eveyone is enjoying the link to the louis/schmeling fight. I went to the boxing hall of fame today and watched a file of the all-time greatest knockouts.... Joe Louis had several on the tape. They had a list of about 40 fighters that will attend this June.

MJ

[bear]

I'm curious. How long of a drive do have to get there? I went to my first induction ceremony last June, and drove in from Chicago. My drive was split over two days.

Bear

Originally Posted by IceTea

Glad eveyone is enjoying the link to the louis/schmeling fight. I went to the boxing hall of fame today and watched a file of the all-time greatest knockouts.... Joe Louis had several on the tape. They had a list of about 40 fighters that will attend this June.

MJ

[IceTea]

Originally Posted by bear

I'm curious. How long of a drive do have to get there? I went to my first induction ceremony last June, and drove in from Chicago. My drive was split over two days.

Bear

30 minutes for me...............I go once per month or so. The baseball hall of fame is only 40 minutes from me.

MJ

[David Myers]

I apologize if someone else has already rated Sabotin. A journeyman out of Warren, O., he was TKO'd by Floyd Patterson in December 1952 in Patterson's fourth fight.

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Originally Posted by David Myers

I apologize if someone else has already rated Sabotin. A journeyman out of Warren, O., he was TKO'd by Floyd Patterson in December 1952 in Patterson's fourth fight.

Well I for one didn't have him. Thanks for the rating Dave!

Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

A new day in our 1967 replay starts out with a couple Argentinean HW's, one of them very well known to us.

01/21/67 Saturday
Mar Del Plata, Argentina
Oscar Bonavena – HW (25-3-0) vs. Jose Giorgetti – HW (35-7-2)

Oscar Bonavena - Rating 9 Argentina
Heavyweight 1964-76
58 wins / 9 losses / 1 draw / 44 KO

Hometown: Reno, Nv, USA
Birthplace: Buenos Aires, Argentina

His first professional fights listed in BoxRec were all in New York.Career started out 8-0 with 7 KO's, the only non stoppage a 10 round UD over Dick Wipperman. Defeated Tom McNeeley by 5th round TKO. According to the New York Times, Bonavena appeared to shove McNeeley to the canvas towards the end of the 5th round. Referee Tddy Martin then stopped the bout. His decision was booed handily by the crowd. In February 1965 he lost his first fight, a 10 round UD to Zora Folley. Bonavena went down in the 8th, rising at the count of 8. That fight was at Madison Square Garden.

He then returned to Argentina where he racked up 6 consecutive KO's against the local fighters. Then on Sept. 2nd, 1965 he fought Gregorio Peralta fo rthe Argentina HW Title. Bonavena won a 12 round decision, but Bonavena was subsequently stripped of the title. Four more KO wins and then he lost for the 2nd time in his career, disqualified in the 8th round of a scheduled 12 round fight against Jose Giorgetti in March 1966. Those two fought a refight a month later, this time Bonavena winning a 10 round decision.

Bonavena then traved back to the States, and fought George Chuvalo at Madison Square Garden on June 23rd, 1966 winning a majority 10 round decision. The scroring 4-4-2, 7-3, 5-4-1. Then came his epic fight with Joe Frazier 3 months later at the Garden. Bonavena knocked down Frazier twice in the 2nd round, but Frazier managed to come back and win a 10 round split decision, 5-4-1, 6-4, 5-5(7-5 pts) Bonavena. AFter that Bonavena went back to Argentina where he fought for much of the next year racking up 9 wins in 9 fights, 8 by KO/TKO, including wins over Alberto Benassi twice, Jose Giorgetti, Luis Pires and American, Hubert Hilton.

All that sets up Bonavena being part of the WBA Heavyweight Elimination Tournament to decide the WBA's choice of a new heavyweight champion for Ali's crown. In the first round of the tournament, Bonavena fought Eurpean HW champion Karl Mildenberger in Frankfurt, Germany on Sept 16, 1967. Bonavena sent Mildenberger to the canvas in the 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th round on the way to a 12 round decision over the German. Bonavena then was matched up against Jimmy Ellis in the next round of the tournament on December 2nd in Louisville, Kentucky. Bonavena was floored in the 3rd and 10th rounds as Ellis won a 12 round UD, 56-53, 59-53, 55-54. Given even that loss, Bonavena was still ranked 6th in the Ring Magazine's 1967 year end HW rankings.

Bonavena stayed ranked in the top 10 from 1967 thru 1971. He droped out of the top 10 in 1972 but them was back in the top 10 from 1973 through 1974. During those years he fought Joe Frazier for the NYSAC HW Title in December 1968 loosing to Joe again, this time a 15 round UD, 70-67, 74-64, 72-64. In December 1970 he lost to Ali for the NABF HW Title when Bonavena was knocked down 3 times in the 15th round, forcing an automatic stoppage. Scoring at the time of the stoppage was 12-2, 10-3-1, 8-5-1, all Ali. Many other fights in that period included wins over Roberto Davila, Zora Folley, Leotis Martin, Jimmy Fletcher, Luis Pires twice, Wilhelm von Homburg, Santiago Alberto Lovell twice, Manual Ramos, James J. Woody, Al (Blue) Lewis, Leroy Caldwell, Roy (Cookie) Wallace, Lou Bailey, Larry Middleton and Billy Joiner. He lost fights to Miguel Angel Paez, Floyd Patterson (10 round UD), and Ron Lyle (12 round UD).

After the Lyle loss in March 1974 he had won his next 7 fights when on May 22, 1976 he was shot and killed in a brothel in Las Vegas. If your interested in reading more about his death see the attached website link here in his file.

The file I'm attaching for Bonavena is from the game, I just added the bio info and the web link mentioned above that you might be interested in seeing.

Jose Giorgretti - Rating 1 Argentina
Heavyweight 1957-68
36 wins / 8 losses / 2 draws / 33 KO

Hometown: Necochea, Buenos Aires
Birthplace: Quequen, Buenos Aires

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

A heavyweight out of South America with knock out punch and a good chin. He spent his entire career fighting in his native land of Argentina. He was the Argentine Heavyweight Champ from June 1959 until he was defeated by Gregorio Peralta in a 12 round decision in August 1962. Four month prior to the title fight he lost a 10 round decision to Peralta. Before the two Peralta fights in Feb. 1960 Giorgetti lost a 2nd round KO to Alex Miteff. In March and April 1966 he beat Oscar Bonavena by an 8th round disqualification of Bonavena. Oscar came back in April in a rematch and defeated Giorgetti in a 10 round decision.

In June 1966 he then defeated Roberto Davila in a 10 round decision. His last two fights of noteability were a 10 round decision loss to Eduardo Corletti in October 1966 and then a 9th round TKO loss to Bonavena in January 1967. He also lost an 8th round Technical decision to Santiago Alberto Lovell(31-15-2) another busy Argentinian of the 60's and 70's.

The rest of Giorgetti's career around the mentioned noteable fights were a mix of the unmentionables. He packed what appeared to be a big punch. It would be interesting to see what he'd do against some competition outside of Argentina.

I'd rated and posted Giorgretti sometime earlier in this HW thread. You look at his 33 KO's in 36 wins and you might have to ask how can this guy be only a 1?! He never fought outside of Argentina and if you look at his opponents there, most of them did not stack up to much.

The fight....
Everyone pretty much knows “Ringo”. After a tough 15 round majority decision win against George Chuvalo and that celebrated 10 round split decision loss to Joe Frazier back in June and September 1966 respectively, Bonavena traveled back to homeland Argentina it would be assumed to give himself some easier competition to polish up on and remain active for the world stage later on in the upheaval that is to come in 1967 in the heavyweight division. In a matter of a couple months in late 1966 Oscar has won 4 fights, beating Alberto Benassi twice, American Amos Johnson in a 10 round decision and most recent a 4th round KO of winless Roberto Veliz. He’s now coming in to fight old Argentinean nemesis Alberto Giorgetti. Giorgetti has been a top heavyweight in his home country of Argentina for years, but unlike Bonavena, Giorgetti has spent his career entirely in his home country, never getting onto the world stage. These two fought most recently in early 1966 with Giorgetti winning the first round when Bonavena was DQ’d in the 8th round. In the next fight a month later, Bonavena rebounded for a 10 round decision. While Bonavena was busy fighting on the international stage in 1966, Giorgetti was winding down his career in Argentina. After the Bonavena fights, he three fights, the first against Roberto Davila, the last two against winless characters. Then in October 1966 he lost a 10 round decision to Eduardo Corletti and then in November lost to a fresh up and coming face on the Argentinean HW scene, Santiago Alberto Lovell who was 8-0 at the time.
The fight in January 1967 between Bonavena and Giorgetti, it’s surprising in a way that it lasted to the 9th round before the fight was called for a TKO victory for “Ringo”. For Bonavena the best of his career was probably yet to come, for Giorgetti, he would not fight again for almost a year and then it would be for the very last time. Our replay fight was more what I probably would have expected. Round 1, Giorgetti managed to wing a couple good hooks in to connect, but overall, Bonavena was just too fast I think for Giorgetti and Ringo easily managed more connecting punches by far. Then in the 2nd round after Giorgetti managed to sneak in a quick uppercut to start the round, Bonavena quickly pressed the action scoring with a crushing hook and then shot in an uppercut landing it square snapping back Giorgetti’s head. Then after the referee momentarily stopped the action issuing a warning to Bonavena for hitting on the break, Bonavena quickly connected with a combination then landed another shot like lighting bolt that dropped Giorgetti to the canvas. Jose manages to get up in an 8 count, but less then 10 seconds later, Bonavena rains in another combination and puts Giorgetti back onto the deck a second time and this time Jose is counted out. A 2nd round KO for Bonavena at 2:42 in the round.

[David Myers]

Rocco,

I'd already rated Giorgetti in my universe. So I was interested in your take on him. I've got him rated higher than you do. (I rated him a 3.) He was a free swinger who scored 33 stoppages in his 36 wins. He lost to countrymen Alex Miteff, Alejandro Lavorante, and Gregorio Peralta--all of whom are in the TBCB database.

Anway, here is my version of Giorgetti. For comparison' sake.

[Rocco Del Sesto]

Originally Posted by David Myers

Rocco,

I'd already rated Giorgetti in my universe. So I was interested in your take on him. I've got him rated higher than you do. (I rated him a 3.) He was a free swinger who scored 33 stoppages in his 36 wins. He lost to countrymen Alex Miteff, Alejandro Lavorante, and Gregorio Peralta--all of whom are in the TBCB database.

Anway, here is my version of Giorgetti. For comparison' sake.

Thanks Dave, I'll take a look at it. When I rate these guys I try to build a schedule of fighters matching the likes at least by W/L/KO's that I can find in my data base, the opponents the fighter fought. Even with meetings with Miteff, Alejandro and Gregorio, his career just seemed to weigh heavy with the "stiffs" to bring his rating down. Ill plug your rating in and see how he works. I think I still got saved somewhere the scheduled I'd used. All those KO's you might think a 3 would be more like it. Yours could very well be the better!

Thanks!
Rocco

[Rocco Del Sesto]

01/21/67 Saturday
Sao Paulo, Brazil
Humberto Ghiotti – HW (0-1-0) vs. Luis Pires – HW (4-0-0)

Humberto Ghiotti - Rating 1 Argentina
Heavyweight 1966-68,71,77
2 wins / 8 losses / 0 draws / 2 KO

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Ghiotti's first 2 fights were both 4th round KO's at the hands of Luis Pires in November 1966 and Jan. 1967. After winning a 1st round KO of Bruno Segura(0-4 at the time), he was stopped in the 4th round by Justo Benitez. Humberto then traveled to San Antonio, Texas and took on Wayne Heath (10-8-0). Heath KO'd Humberto in the 1st.

Ghiotti then went back home to finish his career, well almost. He beat Carlos Paez(0-3-0) then was disqualified in the 1st round in a fight with Alberto Benassi. Pires then KO'd Humberto in the 5th round in December 1968. Humberto then did not fight until March 1971 when he fought Gregorio Peralta. Peralta KO'd him in the 2nd. That was it for Ghiotti's career. So we thought, when all of a sudden in November 1977 he shows up in Parksville, BC, Canada to fight one Scotty Welsh. Welsh dispatches Ghiotti into final oblivion in the 5th round.

Luis Pires - Rating 3 Brazil
Heavyweight 1965-79
28 wins / 11 losses / 1 draw / 16 KO

Hometown: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Birthplace: Minas Gerais Eubanque de Camar
Manager: Abraham Katzenelson

Rating by: Billy Dennis, modified by: Rocco Del Sesto

Pires defeated Hiram Campos in his first two fights. Campos was the reigning Brazilian LHW Champ at the time of that 2nd fight. In May 1967 with a 5-0-0 record Pires defeated Roberto Davila for the South American Heavyweight Title. Davila according to BoxRec. had been proclaimed South American HW Champion as of Dec. 29, 1966. In Pires next fight he went up against Oscar Bonavena. Ringo won by TKO in the 6th round. Bonavena defeated Pires in a rematch in March 1969 again by TKO, this time in the 8th. Later in 1969 Pires lost to Eduardo Corletti and Santiago Alberto Lovell. In Oct and Dec. 1969 he defeated an unbeaten William Burton(12-0-1 at the time) and Bill Drover.

In Jan. 1970 he fought a 10 round draw with Al Jones. Jones broke his hand in the 1st round of the fight. Over the next couple of years Pires fought a number of recognizable heavyweights. He beat Miguel Paez, Santiago Lovell, lost to Bonavena again by TKO, lost a 10 round decision with Ernie Terrell, beat Burton and Bill Drover again. In October 1971 Pires fought George Foreman in New York's Madison Square Garden. Pires was TKO'd in the 4th as he had his arm broken by a punch from Foreman.

Pires layed off for a whole year before he came back in Oct. 1972 against Ron Lyle(17-0-0 at the time) in Denver, colorado. Lyle KO'd Pires in the 3rd. Pires then fought next in May 1973 and won his next 10 fights, all back home in Brazil. He defeated Manuel Ramos, beat a Domingo Silveira to fill the South American HW Title. He defeated Robert Davila next defending that title, the Pires defeated Vasco Faustino for the Brazilian HW Title. Pires won 5 more fights after that before he lost the South American HW Title to Domingo D'Elia in May 1978 and then lost his last career fight in a rematch with D'Elia in Feb. 1979.

As noted above this Pires was an original creation of Billy Dennis that was posted on cornerwork. He had him rated a 1 which looking at his career I thought it to be more like a 2 or 3. I ended up with a 3 after doing some tweaking and play testing.

The fight....
Both of these South American heavyweight fighters are just getting their careers started. For Pires from Brazil, he’s 4-0 on his way to future fame as Brazilian and South American HW title holder. For Ghiotti who lost by 4th round KO to Pires in Montevideo, Uruguay back in November 1966 in his first professional fight, he would be going no where pretty much.
The fight in January 1967 was a repeat just like in the previous November with Pires knocking out Ghiotti in the 4th round. Our replay fight, which I scheduled as an 8 rounder, not knowing for sure the length, the referee did not let the fight go even that far. In the first round after surprising Pires early with some quick punches connecting for a handful of points, Pires regrouped and fended off most of the rest of Ghiotti’s punches in the round while landing himself enough to win the round. The 2nd round, Pires just pours it on and pounds Ghiotti who cannot defend himself. Pires lands a big left that decks Ghiotti for a quick 2 counts, but Pires continues to connect at will, and seeing that the Argentinean cannot defend himself, the referee jumps in and ends the fight at the 2:13 mark. A 2nd round TKO victory for Luis Pires.

[David Myers]

. . . who were kayoed by Giorgetti. Neither was a stiff, exactly. All 25 of Rinaldo Ansaloni's wins were knockouts. Luis Amadeo Sosa was closer to stiffness, but he stopped 12 in 15 wins.

Ansaloni fought from 1953 to 1959 with a record of 25-5-0 (25). Sosa fought from 1953 to 1961 with a Boxrec record of 15-4-0 (12).

[David Myers]

German heavyweight Hans Kalbfell is rated under the Europeans thread <a href="http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=90654&page=4&pp=20" target="_blank">here</a>.

[CONN CHRIS]

FRISCO JAMES

Hometown - Los Angeles, California, USA

14(7)-8-2

Besides two ten round decision losses to LHW Watson Jones, Frisco James managed a 14-6-2 record battling Southern California stiffs in the forties.

[CONN CHRIS]

FRISCO JAMES

[bear]

My hotel was about 30 minutes away last year.

Bear

Originally Posted by IceTea

30 minutes for me...............I go once per month or so. The baseball hall of fame is only 40 minutes from me.

MJ

[IceTea]

Where was that, Syracuse?

MJ

[Rocco Del Sesto]

01/21/67 Saturday
Hamburg, Germany
Roland Graetz – LHW (7-7-2) vs. Peter Schulze – HW (2-1-1)

Roland Graetz - Rating 1 Germany
Light Heavyweight 1964-68
10 wins / 11 losses / 6 draws / 3 KO

Birthplace: Zanzin, Germany

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Won his first 4 fights including one over Carl Welschou, then lost 7 of his next 9. Lost to Dante Cane, Ray Patterson, and Jurgen Blin during that span. After a couple wins and a draw lost a 10 round decision to Paul Roux. Late in his career in 1967 he lost an 8 round decision to Peter Weiland and fought a6 round draw with Ireno Werleman.

Peter Schulze - Rating 1 Germany
Heavyweight 1965-72
6 wins / 12 losses / 1 draw / 1 KO

Birthplace: Rheidt, Germany

Rating by: Rocco Del Sesto

Was KO'd in 1 round by Jose Peyre. Lost by 8th round TKO to Guiseppe Ros. Paul Roux beat him twice in 10 round decisions. Lost 5th round TKO to Albert Westphal.

The fight....
A couple Germans meeting tonight in Hamburg. Both of these guys fought predominately in their homeland. Graetz has and will fight a few European LHW/HW’s that you’d recognize. Schulze is just getting his career started winning his last two fights. The fight back in 1967, a 6 rounder. Lasted just that 6 rounds with the LHW Graetz taking the decision.
Our replay was pretty much the same. It went the full 6 rounds with no knockdowns. Schulze came on strong in the last 2 rounds, but it was not enough to over come the first 4 controlled by the Graetz, the LHW who is just the better overall fighter. Graetz takes a Majority Decision victory, 57-57, 58-56, 58-56.

[CONN CHRIS]

Thanks Rocco! Unfortunately, there are no Connecticut bouts to look forward to in 1967. The sport almost died here following Pep's second retirement. There are quite a few good New England heavyweight bouts comming on your calander in Mass for February though. George Chuvalo even pays us a visit! I'll look forward to your write-ups over the summer

Take care,

Christopher

[David Myers]

South African heavyweight Johnny Ralph, active in the late forties, is rated under the Europeans thread <a href="http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?p=1059673#post1059673" target="_blank">here</a>.

[bear]

No, it was a place once called the Vernon Comfort Suites but now has a new name.

Bear

Originally Posted by IceTea

Where was that, Syracuse?

MJ