2008/2009 NFL Discussion Thread - Page 5

birddogg · 11-02-2008, 06:14 PM

8-0 baby!

Go Titans!

molarmite · 11-09-2008, 10:37 PM

I just thought of something, why isn't spiking the ball intentional grounding? They aren't throwing toward any receiver and they're inside the tackle box. Is there some rule I'm missing?

BaseballMan · 11-09-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molarmite

I just thought of something, why isn't spiking the ball intentional grounding? They aren't throwing toward any receiver and they're inside the tackle box. Is there some rule I'm missing?

I think there is a special rule that allows it or im sure the refs would have been calling it a long time ago. Personally i wish they would have the same rules for the whole game. Why should the rules of the last 2 minutes of a game be any different than the previous 58?
I guess thats why comebacks by qbs of the 70's like Staubach & Stabler were a little more impressive than Elway's comebacks.

jamus23 · 11-09-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molarmite

I just thought of something, why isn't spiking the ball intentional grounding? They aren't throwing toward any receiver and they're inside the tackle box. Is there some rule I'm missing?

I *think* that a pass is only intentional grounding if it is thrown to avoid a sack. A spike is not done to avoid a sack.

I could be completely wrong about that, though.

His Own Bad Self · 11-10-2008, 12:07 AM

NFL Rules Digest: Intentional Grounding of Forward Pass

Quote:

Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.

In the case of stopping the clock, I don't think that would qualify as "imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense". Spiking the ball is proactive, whereas a pass that would qualify as intentional grounding is reactive.

BaseballMan · 11-10-2008, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by His Own Bad Self

NFL Rules Digest: Intentional Grounding of Forward Pass

In the case of stopping the clock, I don't think that would qualify as "imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense". Spiking the ball is proactive, whereas a pass that would qualify as intentional grounding is reactive.

I dont know but throwing a pass into the ground should qualify as
"throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion."
Lets see in between the tackles, pass to no elgible receiver, pass is forward.
Yeah that ruling makes sense.
Why dont teams use it to save a timeout when they have a 2nd and 5 and
cant get the play they want? Yeah it wastes a down but you could still get that back. You cant get a Timeout back. Thats why im kinda curious if it can only be done in the last 5 minutes of a half.

Erik W. · 11-10-2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I dont know but throwing a pass into the ground should qualify as
"throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion."
Lets see in between the tackles, pass to no elgible receiver, pass is forward.
Yeah that ruling makes sense.

You're ignoring the rest of the grounding rule.

BaseballMan · 11-10-2008, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

You're ignoring the rest of the grounding rule.

How can you say there is or is no pressure? The play is over in a second.

Sdpm100 · 11-10-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

How can you say there is or is no pressure? The play is over in a second.

The fact that the play is over in less than a second means there can't be any pressure on the passer, so there can't be intentional grounding. The rule isn't some prediction into the future, it's what is happening when the ball is thrown.
As for why they don't spike it on 2nd and 5 normally, I'm guessing they'd rather get the right play in twice, to try and get the yards, than one, because that's sort of more likely to succeed in a first down.

BaseballMan · 11-10-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

The fact that the play is over in less than a second means there can't be any pressure on the passer, so there can't be intentional grounding. The rule isn't some prediction into the future, it's what is happening when the ball is thrown.
As for why they don't spike it on 2nd and 5 normally, I'm guessing they'd rather get the right play in twice, to try and get the yards, than one, because that's sort of more likely to succeed in a first down.

By the time the qb gets the ball and is in throwing motion a defensive player can be pushing his guy back into the qbs immediant area. If you dont think a defensive player can then you obviously didnt see Julius Peppers manhandle Kwami Harris yesterday.

marioh · 11-10-2008, 03:11 PM

Another solid win for the G-Men last night.

It's looking like that loss to Cleveland may have been an aberration. Regardless, it's better to lose games in the regular season than lose them in the playoffs.

Bobbuttons · 11-10-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marioh

Another solid win for the G-Men last night.

It's looking like that loss to Cleveland may have been an aberration. Regardless, it's better to lose games in the regular season than lose them in the playoffs.

What? You don't believe that the Browns are 3 tds better than the Giants?

marioh · 11-10-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

What? You don't believe that the Browns are 3 tds better than the Giants?

Normally, no.

On that night....hats off to the Browns. They deserved that win that night as they outplayed the Giants across the board.

Thundercrack · 11-10-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marioh

Another solid win for the G-Men last night.

It's looking like that loss to Cleveland may have been an aberration. Regardless, it's better to lose games in the regular season than lose them in the playoffs.

Giants running game sledgehammered philly. but no more hurdling for B. Jacobs. please.

BaseballMan · 11-10-2008, 04:06 PM

The giants do look like they may make it back.
I thought they might not because usually they suck after a superbowl.
Wasnt that the case after their 2 SB wins?
How great of qb do you think Eli is now? Or is he?
Or is it just the advantage of having a good team.

marioh · 11-10-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

The giants do look like they may make it back.
I thought they might not because usually they suck after a superbowl.
Wasnt that the case after their 2 SB wins?
How great of qb do you think Eli is now? Or is he?
Or is it just the advantage of having a good team.

The Giants pretty much sucked the year after a SB win previously. The pessimist in me was fully expecting the Giants to have the post Super Bowl blues and struggle this year, but I think the schedule makers in the NFL really helped the Giants out early this season by lining up a bunch of second tier teams for them to beat up on and gain some momentum.

I won't deny that I was one of Eli's biggest critics, but he's impressed me by how he can lead the Giants down the field when the game is on the line late in the 4th quarter. If there's 3 minutes left in the game, the Giants are down by 4 points and have the ball on their own 20, Eli has given me hope that not only can he drive the team down the field, but put the ball into the endzone before time runs out. He's done it before, and that gives me faith that he can do it again when the time comes. I won't go as far as saying that Eli is a great QB, but he is a solid QB who has the ability to the drive his team down the field when the game is on the line. It also doesn't hurt that his OL makes huge holes for the running game and does a great job of keeping the pass rush away from Eli.

Football is unique in the way that good players can seem to be great players due to the team around them. And I feel that Eli falls into that category of a good player who at times looks great due to the team.

His Own Bad Self · 11-18-2008, 12:19 AM

Anyone watching the Cleveland/Buffalo game? Marshawn Lynch is playing out of his mind.

Bobbuttons · 11-18-2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by His Own Bad Self

Anyone watching the Cleveland/Buffalo game? Marshawn Lynch is playing out of his mind.

You always have to use the caveat that he was doing that against a horrific run defense. When Shaun Rogers is in the game, their run defense is sort of okay, but when he's not in (and with injuries to his rotation mates, he's playing more but needing more time off between plays) the run defense is pathetic.

Cryomaniac · 11-18-2008, 09:24 AM

Regarding the intentional grounding thing, I'm fairly sure the notes to the rules say something about spiking the ball to stop the clock. You can also do it from a shotgun formation apparently, but I think a ref might call that the first time he saw it.

Another interesting rule is the fact that illegal formation isn't a 10 second run-off, which means that if you complete a long pass late in the game and don't mind losing 5 yards, you could have the WR just snap the ball to another fast WR who spikes it, lose 5 yards and still kick a field goal.

birddogg · 11-23-2008, 06:34 PM

10-1 now ...

Great game by Favre tho glad to see him play at such a high level nearing the end of his career, he's got something special that's for sure.

I was lucky enough to go to super bowl XXXII many years back and see him in his prime , Got to say he hasn't changed much .

11-09-2008, 10:37 PM	#82
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,922	I just thought of something, why isn't spiking the ball intentional grounding? They aren't throwing toward any receiver and they're inside the tackle box. Is there some rule I'm missing? __________________ From the wise mind of Davey Eckstein "Now all you need is a signature. A quote or initial, perhaps." [

11-18-2008, 09:24 AM	#99
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	Regarding the intentional grounding thing, I'm fairly sure the notes to the rules say something about spiking the ball to stop the clock. You can also do it from a shotgun formation apparently, but I think a ref might call that the first time he saw it. Another interesting rule is the fact that illegal formation isn't a 10 second run-off, which means that if you complete a long pass late in the game and don't mind losing 5 yards, you could have the WR just snap the ball to another fast WR who spikes it, lose 5 yards and still kick a field goal. __________________

11-02-2008, 06:14 PM	#81
birddogg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 40	8-0 baby! Go Titans!

11-10-2008, 03:11 PM	#91
marioh All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 1,162	Another solid win for the G-Men last night. It's looking like that loss to Cleveland may have been an aberration. Regardless, it's better to lose games in the regular season than lose them in the playoffs.

11-10-2008, 04:06 PM	#95
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,542	The giants do look like they may make it back. I thought they might not because usually they suck after a superbowl. Wasnt that the case after their 2 SB wins? How great of qb do you think Eli is now? Or is he? Or is it just the advantage of having a good team.

11-18-2008, 12:19 AM	#97
His Own Bad Self All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,221	Anyone watching the Cleveland/Buffalo game? Marshawn Lynch is playing out of his mind.

11-23-2008, 06:34 PM	#100
birddogg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 40	10-1 now ... Great game by Favre tho glad to see him play at such a high level nearing the end of his career, he's got something special that's for sure. I was lucky enough to go to super bowl XXXII many years back and see him in his prime , Got to say he hasn't changed much .