Online Leagues?

[thefatcat]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

It's safe to assume that at this point, some pieces of FOF9 are ready to roll, or extremely close to being so. Some other things, including MP, either need more work or haven't been implemented at all. Just for the sake of discussion, let's say that MP is the #5 priority on their list of things they want to have in the game, but haven't completed yet. (That's just a number I'm making up; don't read anything into it.) The fact that the dev team has said that MP may or may not make the initial release would mean that they're confident about that they'll have time to add, say, the first three features on their list, iffy about getting to features 4-7, and doubtful about 8-10. (They've promised a 2018 release, so they're dealing with a timeline, too.) To hit the deadline, they can either release a solid version with features 1-3 only, or they can rush to add 4-6. Because they're rushed, those would be the features most likely to be buggy.


(The ordinal nature of this is an oversimplification, by the way. It's always possible that priority #9 makes it into the initial release list while priority #4 doesn't, because they estimate that #4 would take 200 hours of development time and needs 2 extra weeks of testing, while priority #9 is a smaller feature that can be added with 8 hours of dev time after the beta has already begun.)

I quite understand what your saying, but if it's true then it is all about the money as they need to get it out by their deadline which obviously has to be for financial reasons. Believe me i know how this works I think we're all keen to hear what Jim says and if we have no MP initially how he sells it to us.

[vgorilla80]

What doesn't make sense is the fact that if this is essentially just a port of FOF8 with an OOTP GUI (as it has been described)...well...FOF8 already has MP functionality. It seems as if the devs would have had to go out of their way to remove it/not include it in the new release. Sure makes you wonder what the point of that would be...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by vgorilla80

What doesn't make sense is the fact that if this is essentially just a port of FOF8 with an OOTP GUI (as it has been described)...well...FOF8 already has MP functionality. It seems as if the devs would have had to go out of their way to remove it/not include it in the new release. Sure makes you wonder what the point of that would be...

Jim mentioned multi-platform as being part of the issue there. Even if that’s the only reason, I’m sure that’s a significant bugaboo by itself. They don't have to go out of their way. Sounds like it'd be essentially broken from the moment it's moved to the OOTP platform and would have to be rebuilt almost from the ground up.

[thefatcat]

Originally Posted by vgorilla80

What doesn't make sense is the fact that if this is essentially just a port of FOF8 with an OOTP GUI (as it has been described)...well...FOF8 already has MP functionality. It seems as if the devs would have had to go out of their way to remove it/not include it in the new release. Sure makes you wonder what the point of that would be...

Great point

[tzach]

Originally Posted by vgorilla80

What doesn't make sense is the fact that if this is essentially just a port of FOF8 with an OOTP GUI (as it has been described)...well...FOF8 already has MP functionality. It seems as if the devs would have had to go out of their way to remove it/not include it in the new release. Sure makes you wonder what the point of that would be...

this point has been covered by jim's post in this thread. MP functionality in FOF8 is not multi platform (ie windows only), while the new version has been advertised as multi platform. So for the sake of the argument, you cannot just copy and paste the MP functionality and change the visualization.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by vgorilla80

What doesn't make sense is the fact that if this is essentially just a port of FOF8 with an OOTP GUI (as it has been described)...well...FOF8 already has MP functionality. It seems as if the devs would have had to go out of their way to remove it/not include it in the new release. Sure makes you wonder what the point of that would be...

Any thoughts that devs are going out of their way to REMOVE features from the game are quite frankly ridiculous.

I'm not a developer or programmer, but I know this process isn't as simple as a "copy pasting" MP from FOF 8 into FOF 9.

Once again, it was the same situation in the OOTPD hockey game which I worked on as a beta tester as well as head of PR and marketing ... The game was adapting the OOTP GUI for the release, so naturally everyone assumed it would automatically include MP as a simple transition over from OOTP (and I'll admit in theory this 'seems' like something that should be possible)

But it wasn't the case ... getting MP into FHM proved difficult and required extra work before it could be added. I honestly do not remember how long it took to add, or if it was part of the initial feature specs and then had to he scrapped ... but long story short it wasn't "taken away" or not added as some kind of vendetta against MP players. Rather, exactly the same situation I imagine we are experiencing here - it is proving more challenging than expected and thus they don't want to promise something until they know for sure when it will be in the game.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by thefatcat

I quite understand what your saying, but if it's true then it is all about the money as they need to get it out by their deadline which obviously has to be for financial reasons. Believe me i know how this works I think we're all keen to hear what Jim says and if we have no MP initially how he sells it to us.

Or, as has already been stated... if the game is completed and ready to ship as an SP game, that's how the vast majority of their customers play and there is no reason to delay the entire game to add MP as opposed to simply releasing it when ready and then focusing on MP post release .

MP players will still not be able to play that until it can be implemented properly, yet those who don't get the chance to play sooner and the game as a whole benefits from additional testing/patches etc before MP is released.

Again this is all assuming MP won't be in the initial release which it must be clarified has never actually been said.

I tend to agree with Ben that its an under promise/over deliver type scenario and MP will either be in the initial release or followed very shortly thereafter in a patch.

Also, history has shown the company doesn't have a problem pushing back a deadline if they aren't confident the product will be up to standards. It had happened with the hockey game and with various feature implementations in OOTP too.

[Sharkn20]

Can't wait to play this game, SP or MP I just don't care.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[FlexD]

here's my take on things ATM
Get almost everyone at OOTP to work on and try and roll out Perfect Team ASAP, as it has been delayed already due to a horrible recent patch in OOTP19. This will push back FOF/OOTP release. They hope to roll out Perfect Team early Oct. Once they have this rolling then maybe they can put a bit more effort into FOF/OOTP...
FOF9 will be released without MP, generating some sales, then as the OOTP blueprint, bring on some other features not included in FOF9 little by little to generate more sales, then hopefully at some point add MP, which IMO isn't a priority for them atm. First priority is to get most at OOTP involved in rolling out Perfect Team ASAP. Once Perfect Team rolls out maybe a bit more emphasis can be put towards OOTP/FOF...

[Cole]

Originally Posted by FlexD

here's my take on things ATM
Get almost everyone at OOTP to work on and try and roll out Perfect Team ASAP, as it has been delayed already due to a horrible recent patch in OOTP19. This will push back FOF/OOTP release. They hope to roll out Perfect Team early Oct. Once they have this rolling then maybe they can put a bit more effort into FOF/OOTP...
FOF9 will be released without MP, generating some sales, then as the OOTP blueprint, bring on some other features not included in FOF9 little by little to generate more sales, then hopefully at some point add MP, which IMO isn't a priority for them atm. First priority is to get most at OOTP involved in rolling out Perfect Team ASAP. Once Perfect Team rolls out maybe a bit more emphasis can be put towards OOTP/FOF...

The developers of FOF are different people than those who make OOTP. There's absolutely no reason devs shouldn't continue working on FOF and that will not impact the release of Perfect Team at all. It's completely unrelated.

[FlexD]

Originally Posted by Cole

The developers of FOF are different people than those who make OOTP. There's absolutely no reason devs shouldn't continue working on FOF and that will not impact the release of Perfect Team at all. It's completely unrelated.

You are partly correct, but in this case with the delay of Perfect Team, we can agree to disagree..

[Cole]

Originally Posted by FlexD

You are partly correct, but in this case with the delay of Perfect Team, we can agree to disagree..

What part do you feel is incorrect?

[FlexD]

Originally Posted by Cole

What part do you feel is incorrect?

Priority 1) to get The Perfect Team rolled out by early Oct, which will generate a few more OOTP 19 sales.
As I stated before had the recent patch in OOTP19 not put them behind on the Perfect Team FOF9 would be further along than what it is now. But a lot of the development team is busy with Perfect Team. Sadly FOF9 was set back by this as was The Perfect Team...

[Andreas Raht]

Originally Posted by thefatcat

Why does everyone believe the MP game will be buggy if it comes out in the initial release?

Coding the MP needs time. So, either we release a stable game without MP at a certain date, or we release a stable game with MP at a later date. The difference between the first date and the second date costs money. Two people are working full-time on this project and others help part-time. And these are adults with families, not school kids doing a sommer-holiday job They cost real money. Can you image how important an earlier release is for us?
Very simple.

[thefatcat]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Coding the MP needs time. So, either we release a stable game without MP at a certain date, or we release a stable game with MP at a later date. The difference between the first date and the second date costs money. Two people are working full-time on this project and others help part-time. And these are adults with families, not school kids doing a sommer-holiday job They cost real money. Can you image how important an earlier release is for us?
Very simple.

Mr Cole see it is all about the money .......Thank you Andreas for clearing the situation up. (I understand it's a busy but i must as a MP i would be along with many others very disappointed in this!)

Andreas how much longer would you need for a MP version, one or two months or more (obviously i know you can't say preciously?)

[Andreas Raht]

Originally Posted by thefatcat

Mr Cole see it is all about the money .......Thank you Andreas for clearing the situation up.

It's not all about the money, it's about quality, ressources and money

Originally Posted by thefatcat

Andreas how much longer would you need for a MP version, one or two months or more (obviously i know you can't say preciously?)

Whatever dates I'd write here, they would be seen as promise. We have an idea already but we're still discussing it internally. One thing I can say is that we're working on the product as hard as we can and we'll release it when it's stable.

[thefatcat]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

It's not all about the money, it's about quality, ressources and money

Whatever dates I'd write here, they would be seen as promise. We have an idea already but we're still discussing it internally. One thing I can say is that we're working on the product as hard as we can and we'll release it when it's stable.

Andreas you posted this "They cost real money. Can you image how important an earlier release is for us? Very simple." You can't say its not about the money after a line like that surely?

[Andreas Raht]

Originally Posted by thefatcat

Andreas you posted this "They cost real money. Can you image how important an earlier release is for us? Very simple." You can't say its not about the money after a line like that surely?

It's not all about the money, it's about quality, ressources and money. It's all about each of these three.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by thefatcat

Andreas you posted this "They cost real money. Can you image how important an earlier release is for us? Very simple." You can't say its not about the money after a line like that surely?

I'm not sure exactly what it is you want Andreas to admit here. He's clearly said money is a factor, but has also added resources (as in if they had more resources it would be a moot point and they could get everything in within a timeline) and quality (since ultimately the end product is something they have to be able to stand behind). Are you disputing that resources and quality are a limiting factor/point of importance?

As I have mentioned to you in this thread in the past, they are a business, obviously the goal is to make money - everyone knows that and I was never blind to that fact.

Personally my issue with how you've been coming at this is seemingly to indicate that they are making decisions based SOLELY on money and nothing else, as opposed to what they think is best for their company and its future (which, YES, obviously includes financially, as Andreas has mentioned). It is their decision to make and if you don't agree with it, you can vote with your money, by going elsewhere or buying something else.

I don't think OOTPD are greedy/money hungry and put $$$ above all else, but I do understand how money has to guide their decision making and on a project that is already long delayed (if you trace the OOTP football project back to its pre-FOF origins), it makes sense they actually want to get something out into their customers hands sooner rather than later (especially considering there are other competitors in this genre).

It has now clearly been laid out that it will take time to add and test MP and that a stable, SP-only version of the game can be completed prior to the point when MP could be added.

If MP players are still only going to be able to play MP when it can be fully implemented into the game, do you honestly think it's best to delay the entire game (even though the rest would be ready) until that point? That logically makes no sense, especially considering the fact that the vast majority of players don't participate in MP, a fact the vocal minority here don't seem to want to acknowledge.

[vgorilla80]

If multi-platform is truly the issue holding back MP (which I'm not convinced, but let's say it for the sake of argument), I'd love to know the correlation between MP users and Mac users. I'd be willing to bet there's FAR more potential customers interested in MP than those who need the game on a Mac platform.

And the simple fact that this thread has had over 70+ posts in the 72 hours since Andreas made his original comment should be hard evidence that more than just a "small minority" of people are upset by this. There isn't a thread anywhere about this game that has seen that kind of activity.

I've never seen a company give a full-on slap in the face to an entire group of their potential customers as the mods and devs have here by saying that the MP community is "totally replaceable". Can you imagine if Apple put out a new iPad that was unable to connect to wifi? "Those wifi users don't represent our entire audience so we won't add that feature until later, they're totally replaceable anyway, we're not worried about them".