Perfect Game is Very Far from Perfect

[JudP]

Originally Posted by bailey

Do you really want to know the answer to the question "where do I get my points" or do you just want to blame other people for the fact that you are not skillful at the game? (Note: one answer is "flip cards in the AH", but there is another way and not buying points, either.)

I'm quite skillful at the game because im playing some powerhouse teams very close and my team continues to improve. But I guess you just like the "no skill buy a super team" approach. The skill is in winning without having a team of 100 players.

[JudP]

Originally Posted by Marleigh

I have a free to play team thats in bronze league in its 5th season, it has finished all of the live collections and is earning a decent amount of points regularly.

How did I do it? i sucked for the first year of existence but bought an iron tournament team, the tournament team and my PT team earned enough points and packs to buy a SE Bagwell for season 2.

Bagwell started earning enough points for me to start doing live collections, which enabled me to snowball and by the time I hit iron i had a full collection team, selling off the players i wasn't going to use and earning even more points, at the start of bronze I bought Peak Pee Wee Reese for 54k and am already back up over 10k with an eventual goal of doing the Appling collection

how do you earn points? rather than complaining about others YOU need a strategy, there is a ton of info out there about the best way to build wealth in game.

Translation..... just put up with a system that has no skill and no point. Good answer!!

[Catchthedamnball]

Originally Posted by JudP

I'm quite skillful at the game because im playing some powerhouse teams very close and my team continues to improve. But I guess you just like the "no skill buy a super team" approach. The skill is in winning without having a team of 100 players.

I believe what bailey is trying to say is that there are more ways to accumulate PP as an F2P player, rather than the 'throw money at the problem' type that you are labelling him as. In fact...

Originally Posted by JudP

Translation..... just put up with a system that has no skill and no point. Good answer!!

Marleigh makes a good point here. Tournaments are a great way to build income and are a sharp departure from the main game where you see a lot of the LIVE SEs. But I suppose you can't be bothered to participate in a 'skill-less system'...

[Pineywoods OOTPer]

Now, I have to throw in my two cents....as one of those who this year plan to play all my teams as FTP, I watched this past PT season seeing one of my teams come out with a 110-52 season, and this team includes five diamonds and plenty of gold players but due to a little bit of lousy luck playing in the Stone division. So, I would suspect that some may have called this team one of those "whales" and from the point of view, I could respect that shout out.

However, when it came time for the playoffs, we got shut out in the first round...and I admit, I was not expecting it. Still at the end of the season, we were promoted to Iron and will start there in this current season (that just started 15 minutes ago as I am writing this). I don't know what to expect, but where it is now, I am fine with it as nothing is predictable in the game, as is sometimes is the case in real life.

Let's see how it goes, now that with this season, we are going to see the first participants to the Perfect League are to be named...and in my opinion, only ironically, that it occurs on Sunday, May 31 and the first Perfect League will start on Monday, June 1.

Let's meanwhile, keep having fun...and enjoying the game.

[EvvCat]

Originally Posted by Catchthedamnball

Tournaments are a great way to build income and are a sharp departure from the main game where you see a lot of the LIVE SEs. But I suppose you can't be bothered to participate in a 'skill-less system'...

This.

I have a team I believe some would assume was bought with real money, but I haven't spent even one penny on PT. My team's not great yet, mind you, but almost all diamonds and I've only completed the Astros collection for a good reward card. It's won 113 games and the Series each of the last two seasons in Stone and Iron (I was building slowly and wasn't competitive until two weeks ago because...)

I started trying tournaments the first week of May. Since, I've won 50+ and opened close to 200 packs as rewards. I hit the lottery in one of those packs with a perfect Lee Smith that funded almost my entire starting lineup and jump-started me. You can't count on that happening, but it does happen, and it's pretty damn fun when it does.

And as you build, the challenge of putting together a good tournament roster can be as fun as building your main team. If you've actually got skill, you can prove it there.

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

I just looked at the results from last season and the numbers are basically the same. The top 3 teams in Rookie, for example, won 147-149 games. In Stone, 145-150 games, and in Iron, 138-146 games... all well above an .800 winning percentage.


All I'm trying to say is when you have Whales in the lower levels, which represents well over 50% of OOTP's PT players, most of these teams are going to be abandoned well before the next version comes out.


That said, maybe the money they make from the top 10% is enough to make it a successful venture, but over time the number of people playing PT (in my opinion) will ultimately go down. It becomes like playing Chess when you only get to play the World Champions

I have the same opinion. I don't work for OOTP so of course I don't have access to any figures, but I do know gamers and the gaming industry. Gamers, as a whole, are not exactly known for their exemplary patience.


Here we have a game with TONS of content for the baseball fanatic. Some of the user base of this game is also just as fanatic. I myself bought every single iteration of the game since I discovered it (OOTP8).


But...here we are, more than 2 months after release, and people are STILL waiting to get an even playing field. TOW MONTHS ! And to me that is the biggest challenge this mode faces. We are not exactly in 1988...gamers have tons of options for spending their time and money. Many gamers don't have the patience to wait that long to start reaping the benefits. So that leaves your player base as mostly baseball/OOTP fanatics...


Then over time, people's situations change...some of those fanatics will lose income, interest, whatever...and with the current system, it would be difficult to "replace" those fanatics with just random gamers because the game itself is really not "average gamer friendly". Tourneys help some, but even that area of the game would need some serious QOL additions to it. If you're a newcomer not very familiar with OOTP, just opening the list of tourneys for the first time is a disheartening experience.


That's why I'm also with you that the game could really benefit from a ladder system and do away with the pro/rel system (I have been stating this opinion since the very first iteration). I would do it differently than what you propose - I would have it as a formula that takes into account the top 40 cards in one's collection (not all cards are created equal...a perfect live does not equate a perfect Jackie Robinson), but I would also have it take into consideration record, GM score, playoffs and maybe a few more "random" variables. Then fill the leagues FROM THE TOP. No more of that getting promoted while playing 9 games under .500 BS alongside teams that should get promoted to help fill a need MONTHS down the line (Eventually getting a Perfect League)


So I think it's a legitimate concern to have. How much more new revenue can OOTP expect with the current model if they start to slowly see the number of "fanatics" dwindle due to a bunch of circumstances ? I don't know that answer. What I do know, is that if you go grab a random gamer on the street and ask them if they would be willing to invest a lot of time and/or money into a game that still wouldn't have an even playing field 2 months into the games' release...you're probably not gonna have a lot of takers...and that's basically what we are asked to do.

[ignats75]

Well, speaking as a die hard Indian fan AND a amateur baseball historian, I can tell you that baseball isn't, and has never been, played on on a level playing field. So, I guess, those who are expecting it maybe ought to adjust their expectations. SO GAMERS might want a level playing field, but baseball fans are probably used to not having one.

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by ignats75

Well, speaking as a die hard Indian fan AND a amateur baseball historian, I can tell you that baseball is, and has never been, played on on a level playing field. So, I guess, those who are expecting it maybe ought to adjust their expectations. SO GAMERS might want a level playing field, but baseball fans are probably used to not having one.

I'm very well aware of that, except it's been pointed out several times in this thread already - this isn't meant to be a representation of baseball. It is meant to be a video game geared to generate money for OOTP.

[ignats75]

Originally Posted by eldur00

this isn't meant to be a representation of baseball. It is meant to be a video game geared to generate money for OOTP.

I totally disagree. It is a simulation of baseball. It requires building a team balanced between bats and gloves. Speed and Power. Fastballs and Breaking pitches. This game simulates that through the game engine designed by the OOTP. It reflects the game of baseball. ITs not a first person shooter like Call of Duty. Its baseball. And if you are baseball fan playing this game you understand and accept my statement. If you're just a video game player then maybe this game isn't for you and you should just go play Fortnight.

As with all computer games, theres a certain amount of figuring out the game engine and how it works. But a good simulation doesn't lose its identity. And this one doesn't. So again, as it reflects the baseball world, seeing that teams are unfairly put together is totally within the game's world too. and that's consistent with what its simulating.

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by ignats75

I totally disagree. It is a simulation of baseball. It requires building a team balanced between bats and gloves. Speed and Power. Fastballs and Breaking pitches. This game simulates that through the game engine designed by the OOTP. It reflects the game of baseball. ITs not a first person shooter like Call of Duty. Its baseball. And if you are baseball fan playing this game you understand and accept my statement. If you're just a video game player then maybe this game isn't for you and you should just go play Fortnight.

As with all computer games, theres a certain amount of figuring out the game engine and how it works. But a good simulation doesn't lose its identity. And this one doesn't. So again, as it reflects the baseball world, seeing that teams are unfairly put together is totally within the game's world too. and that's consistent with what its simulating.

And I totally disagree with your total disagreement. There is no pro/rel in baseball. There are injuries in baseball. There are trades between teams in baseball. Players don't play for 50 seasons in baseball. There are not 17 clones of Jeff Bagwell playing the game of baseball.



It is very much an asset management simulator using the game of baseball as the premise to make money - but it is not a good representation of the game of baseball in itself- that is what the base game is for (and does it well, most of the time).


You also keep dodging the only point I've ever tried to make - it might come a time that the baseball fanatic money is not enough anymore to make the mode as viable financially - what will OOTP do at this point to expand on their market share and go for the regular gamer's money ? Or should they just have the myopic view that "well, baseball is like this so the millions of gamers with money can go spend their money playing Fortnite instead, it's fine with us" ?

[ignats75]

people like you will quit playing and go play fortnight. baseball fans will continue to play this.

[dkgo]

I mean he is right that the entire game is resource generation just like a hundred other similar games. The "cards" could literally be anything, this just has a baseball skin on it. Its not hard to figure out which ones are better than others. Peak Pedro might as well be the Golden Hammer of Awesomeness that is better than all the other weapons so everyone wants it.

[ignats75]

Yeah, well, babe Ruth in 1927 does the same thing in any baseball sim. just because you don't see Ichiro going 1st to 3rd on a single to right doesn't mean it didn't happen. its just the game is played in the background because we are the owner/GM. But my Lakewood Thunder are playing approximately 30 BASEBALL games every day. And they perform to the instructions I set. THAT makes it a baseball simulation that includes a simplfied economic facet to enhance our GMing. The economics work differently. But the results are still driven by the players playing baseball.

[ignats75]

Really the bottom line is, play this game or don't. But bitching about it doesn't change anything except fill this place with whining and complaining. So play it or not. But your not going to change it.

[ignats75]

Originally Posted by dkgo

I mean he is right that the entire game is resource generation just like a hundred other similar games. The "cards" could literally be anything, this just has a baseball skin on it. Its not hard to figure out which ones are better than others. Peak Pedro might as well be the Golden Hammer of Awesomeness that is better than all the other weapons so everyone wants it.

Yeah, but the cards AREN'T literally anything. They are baseball players swinging (and sometimes missing in the case of most of my players) at pitches and winning and losing baseball games by baseball scores. Our results are measured by how our teams do within that framework. So he's not right unless he in incapable of understanding the concept of a simulation game. I mean, there aren't real bullets flying in Call of Duty either. Its a measurement of your hand eye coordination within the "framework" of a FPS game. But its still a simulation of combat.

[BatAround]

Originally Posted by ignats75

Really the bottom line is, play this game or don't. But bitching about it doesn't change anything except fill this place with whining and complaining. So play it or not. But your not going to change it.

I'm usually on bored with most of your arguments, but you've gotten pretty nasty the last few responses. Maybe it's time for you to scroll past the "bitching," "whining," and "complaining." There's other threads, you know.

[dkgo]

It's also just wrong because the dev team is very active on the boards and has incorporated lots of that "bitching and whining" as feedback to improve the game. Everything is a work in progress.

[HRBaker]

To some people, concern and constructive criticism is called "bitching," "whining," and "complaining."

[Kris Jardine]

Originally Posted by ignats75

Really the bottom line is, play this game or don't. But bitching about it doesn't change anything except fill this place with whining and complaining. So play it or not. But your not going to change it.

100% False.

If you go back to PT19 and run it up to today and look at every single change, improvement, addition, removal or new feature, it almost always started as a community suggestion. What you see as "whining and complaining" we see as a potential issue that needs solving.

I've monitored and read every single post of this thread (and pretty much every other thread on the forums) because you never know when a good suggestion or idea might be presented that could ultimately make Perfect Team better. Just because I/we are not replying to each one individually doesnt mean we aren't discussing the merits of an idea in private.

This idea that because people disagree with an assessment or perceived issue makes it invalid needs to stop

[ignats75]

Kris, I was only addressing the complaints about whales. It was not my intention to insult anyone. But repetitious threads on the same topic, (whales this, whales that) is the definition of whining and bitching. And now they're making the case that all of that complaining is the same as making constructive recommendations for changes to make the game better. I appreciate how the OOTP guys are so interactive with the community. I think that's great and part of why this is such a great product.

Last season, I had a Silver team that played .600 ball and finished 40 games behind a team. Complaining about it doesn't do anyone any good. That owner, somehow, whether by wallet or good fortune or skill built a juggernaut and I was just unfortunate enough to get placed in the same league. As I said elsewhere, shrug and "wait 'til next year".

So, if I insulted anyone, mea culpa. But, I'm not sure where I ever said I didn't think that improvements didn't come as a response to the community.