Development fixed?

[jaguar8311]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

This makes perfect sense as the root cause of the problem even to someone with absolutely no idea about programming.
I won't throw a tantrum (carrot vs. stick) - especially because I know what the development team was attempting to achieve vs. prior versions (good intentions) - but I do want to add my 0.02 worth and go on record as saying this really is an extremely important core issue that strikes to the heart of the game and its realism.
Also, one question now that the nature of the problem appears to have been narrowed.
I just started my first 'keeper' save with the release of the last update. I will gladly put that one on hold and start another for the time being, until the problem can be addressed (hopefully) in a future release.
My question is this: If and when the problem is addressed, will the programming changes in the future version work effectively with a game that is already started or will I have to start a new one for the changes to have an impact?

+1. Wish we still had the 'thank' button

[truebatman]

Hey OOTP players!
This issue you guys brought up in this thread, does anyone know for sure that when this particular issue is fixed in order for it to work we'll have to start a new franchise? Orrrrrr, is it safe to start and this change will still show during an already existing Franchise?
Thanks so much!

[ThePride87]

Originally Posted by NoOne

this happens every year.. something is a bit off, ppl claim it ruins the game, then they have some ice cream? take a hard poop to get that bug out? And, ootp patches things as they go. All is fine in the world, again.

All years aren't as bumpy, but this is the reality of how this game and many others like it, are produced. This isn't EA Sports, and it is still a professionally made simulation, regardless. A niche no one else is filling as well, that is for sure.

If you find yourself saying things like this has ruined my experience or i can't play this... stop buying the game in the early part of the process. LoL, anyone responsible OotP sales and marketing just **** their pants about that last statement. But, either roll with it, or if small bumps cause catastrophe for your creations, wait... play last year's for a while longer. Pick up the game when you see the fog clear in forums about issues. This is a year it may go into june for that personality type. After 1 year it'll be the same amount of time on each version, again... just slightly shifted.

and anyone working for ootp, better put on that thick skin, cause the end of the world is coming and it is your fault in some eyes! lol. if every year it took until july to hammer things out, maybe parts of a comment above are right, but they seem to balance responsibility of each game's development very well.

There's always going to be something for us to bitch about. The bar is set real high because of how far this game has come the past 20 years. If it takes longer to get things more level, I'll either just play other games or use last year's version to be satisfied. I'm glad the developers are active here and listening....I used to buy The Show for my baseball fix, but at some point they stopped caring about Franchise mode despite terrible bugs. You'd just get crickets. Here, I have the peace of mind knowing things will get addressed as best as possible.

Sometimes I can be a bit of a perfectionist and expect the sim to do everything correctly based on my terms, but that's just not how life works, you know? This game is still damn good, even with the call-up issues we're talking about.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

I just started my first 'keeper' save with the release of the last update. I will gladly put that one on hold and start another for the time being, until the problem can be addressed (hopefully) in a future release.
My question is this: If and when the problem is addressed, will the programming changes in the future version work effectively with a game that is already started or will I have to start a new one for the changes to have an impact?

Typically changes to something like roster or development ai should not require you to start a new save.

[Lukas Berger]

We made some adjustments to how the AI handles minor league promotions in the new public beta patch.

You're not necessarily likely to see dramatic changes, and it's possible we'll still need to tweak things a bit further here, but this should at least be a step in the right direction.

Please test things out and let us know what you think.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=329384

[PSUColonel]

Thanks

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

We made some adjustments to how the AI handles minor league promotions in the new public beta patch.

You're not necessarily likely to see dramatic changes, and it's possible we'll still need to tweak things a bit further here, but this should at least be a step in the right direction.

Please test things out and let us know what you think.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=329384

Thanks for your efforts in attempting to address this issue quickly, Lukas.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

Thanks for your efforts in attempting to address this issue quickly, Lukas.

Thanks!

But really, thank Matt since he's the one who actually did the work

[BradG223]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

We made some adjustments to how the AI handles minor league promotions in the new public beta patch.

You're not necessarily likely to see dramatic changes, and it's possible we'll still need to tweak things a bit further here, but this should at least be a step in the right direction.

Please test things out and let us know what you think.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=329384

Sweet, thanks Lukas and team! Gonna give it a try now.

[clamel]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

We made some adjustments to how the AI handles minor league promotions in the new public beta patch.

You're not necessarily likely to see dramatic changes, and it's possible we'll still need to tweak things a bit further here, but this should at least be a step in the right direction.

Please test things out and let us know what you think.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=329384

Now that is the OOTP crew I known for years.

Sorry Lukas I was talking a bit trash on this earlier. I deep insdie knew you soon enough came up with a solution.
Only needed to make a point that this is a big concern.

Apollogy.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by clamel

Now that is the OOTP crew I known for years.

Sorry Lukas I was talking a bit trash on this earlier. I deep insdie knew you soon enough came up with a solution.
Only needed to make a point that this is a big concern.

Apollogy.

No worries!

[greenOak]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

This was mentioned by a couple of our beta testers as well, and I think they're making sense.

Based on what I'm seeing, I'm kind of thinking any issue now is not so much with development, but with the AI being too willing and even eager to promote players who it does not yet 'have' to protect on the 40-man roster.
Real-life MLB teams are reluctant to burn options or 40-man spots before they actually 'have' to, and a guy becomes rule 5 eligible, unless a guy is just so good he forces his way onto the MLB roster early.

Whereas the AI seems to take that pretty lightly now for players who aren't likely to make enough of an impact to make the early promotion make sense.

If the AI would just leave those guys in AAA or AA a bit longer until it has to use a roster spot on them, I think even with the current development things would be close to perfect. That would get guys up to the higher levels of the minors quicker, which was a real problem in past years, but they wouldn't get to MLB 'too' quick.

So not promising when we will make any adjustments here, it will depend on when we might have a chance to look more deeply (things are super busy right now), but this is on our list of stuff to keep an eye on and work more on when possible.

Agree 100% with this.

If you look at prospects in real life, many (especially top prospects) see immediate success at the big league level which kind of implies theyÂ’re at least 50CV at the time of call up. Many stay in the minors longer than they need to because of service time manipulation, but in OOTP they get called up as soon as they could possibly survive at the MLB level. Also, it seems like potential is considered into minor league promotion which leads to things like a 21-year old 25/75 in A-ball getting called up before a 30/40 26-year old in AAA. IRL, this just doesnÂ’t happen.

I think the advanced prospect development in 22 is a massive improvement over previous versions. IÂ’ve voiced my complaints about top prospects sucking for years and years in rookie ball before inevitably finally learning to hit and fast track their way to the majors. Now that prospects can actually be rated higher than 20CV, this issue is largely fixed.

IÂ’m surprised it took until this version for people to take issue with players skipping multiple minor league levels. This phenomenon has existed for years. ItÂ’s just in 22 the route of a top prospect looks something like 3-months in R-ball -> 3 months in A-ball -> majors as opposed to the 3-years in R-ball -> 3 months in A-ball -> majors progression of past versions.

That being said, IÂ’ve yet to try out the most recent patch so IÂ’m excited for that.

[itsmb8]

Originally Posted by greenOak

If you look at prospects in real life, many (especially top prospects) see immediate success at the big league level which kind of implies theyÂ’re at least 50CV at the time of call up. Many stay in the minors longer than they need to because of service time manipulation, but in OOTP they get called up as soon as they could possibly survive at the MLB level. Also, it seems like potential is considered into minor league promotion which leads to things like a 21-year old 25/75 in A-ball getting called up before a 30/40 26-year old in AAA. IRL, this just doesnÂ’t happen.

This, exactly this. IMO, potential should only be involved in lineups and rotations, or which players get preference for playing time. Current ability should 100% be the focus for promotions as for example, if a guy is hitting .175 in High-A, you're not going to promote him to AA or AAA just because you think he has the potential to be a great player.

And players aren't called up until you know they're going to make an immediate impact, which is what we see every year. There's no point in removing some 28 year old with 0 options left from the active roster in favor of a 20 year old with all 3 options left if they're probably going to provide the same level of production. That just leaves you with less years of control and even possibly hurting his development by throwing him into the fire and possibly hurting his confidence if he doesn't perform well.

Regardless, Im glad we have both an active community that provides constant feedback and a development team thats so accepting to the feedback and constantly looking for ways to make the game better

[clamel]

On too fast promotions I can only speak for myself and playing in historical. Even if I set the AI values to very low on rating I get some strange fast promotions in my book.
Now think the draft is in December playing historical.

Bret Saberhagen was drafted by the KC Royals and put in the major on Day 1. Randy Johnson a couple of years later had half a season in minors, so did Greg Maddux. Gary Sheffield, Gregg Jefferies (2 games at AAA then majors), Greg Swindell, Mark Grace are all players that had very few days in the minors. To list all that just 1 year in the minors will be too long.

I agree we do have some players moving fast to the majors, BUT not this solid mass.

I do hope the AI will calm down a bit bringing players up to the majors and even to the 40-man rosters.

[jaguar8311]

So happy that the new patch is out today, and that this was fixed!

Can't wait to start my new career game!

Thank you OOTP team!

[fnz]

Just ran a test sim (Historical game starting in 2000) and noticed some good things, especially for recently drafted players, staying in the minors for an appropriate amount of time.

Here's the thing that seemed odd: While I'm still seeing a few players (seemingly already in the the roster NOT drafted players) being called up rather quickly, it's almost 95% pitchers getting called up at 20 or younger. They either A. have a single pitch with a 100+/250 current rating, or B. have their current ratings are above their potential. This could be something with the database (I have no idea how these things work), but this is what I'm seeing post-patch, in a new save.

As Lukas said earlier in the thread, they'll likely need to continue to tweak but this is definitely a step in the right direction.

Quick workaround question: As a workaround, I'm thinking of creating another General Manager in charge of other teams, while keeping the active roster to that GM, and letting the assistants handle everything else.
I see in the menu there are:
Minor League Promotions, etc.
Active Roster Moves, etc.
Is there something that could be in-between those two? Like setting up the 40 man roster, but allowing for promotions/demotions to the major leagues (with guys on the 40 man)? Not sure if that's possible at all (it's fine if it isn't) or if it's already a setting I'm missing.

[1991Twins]

Originally Posted by fnz

Just ran a test sim (Historical game starting in 2000) and noticed some good things, especially for recently drafted players, staying in the minors for an appropriate amount of time.

Here's the thing that seemed odd: While I'm still seeing a few players (seemingly already in the the roster NOT drafted players) being called up rather quickly, it's almost 95% pitchers getting called up at 20 or younger. They either A. have a single pitch with a 100+/250 current rating, or B. have their current ratings are above their potential. This could be something with the database (I have no idea how these things work), but this is what I'm seeing post-patch, in a new save.

As Lukas said earlier in the thread, they'll likely need to continue to tweak but this is definitely a step in the right direction.

Quick workaround question: As a workaround, I'm thinking of creating another General Manager in charge of other teams, while keeping the active roster to that GM, and letting the assistants handle everything else.
I see in the menu there are:
Minor League Promotions, etc.
Active Roster Moves, etc.
Is there something that could be in-between those two? Like setting up the 40 man roster, but allowing for promotions/demotions to the major leagues (with guys on the 40 man)? Not sure if that's possible at all (it's fine if it isn't) or if it's already a setting I'm missing.

I can vouch for this.....my favorite way of playing is Historical as well. I did a test league for 1998. What I found is that the AI tries much more to keep players down in the minors for a year or 2 now. I think Historical lends itself to players possibly debuting earlier using historical minors because:

1. Most people use a 3 year or 5 year recalc. If a player debuted a year or 2 later, their ratings will be smoothed out causing a higher average upon import.

2. Sometimes, historical players import with high ratings. Although league levels lower than MLB do cause a penalty, I am not sure that the penalty is severe enough. What ends up happening is minor league players having higher ratings due to strong seasons. This is especially true for players that put up insane levels in leagues like the Mexican League.

3. Historical leagues in their first few years often have weaker players to begin with. After a few drafts, the talent level does improve quite a bit. In the early "Wild West" years of a save, elite talent seems to rise sooner because there are not many viable alternatives in the minor league systems.

[sutnopG]

Hello again!
It seems this is about to get solved. Really appreciate the devs hard work! So tempted to get started with OOTP22.
But the question remains, reading the latest post on this topic - is this issue solved? I play the game the standard way, not historical. If that matters.
Anyone with some input?

[WIUPIKE]

Originally Posted by sutnopG

Hello again!
It seems this is about to get solved. Really appreciate the devs hard work! So tempted to get started with OOTP22.
But the question remains, reading the latest post on this topic - is this issue solved? I play the game the standard way, not historical. If that matters.
Anyone with some input?

It seems to be ok for my liking. See maybe 1 to 3 picks make to MLB the year after drafted. Mostly in September. Some still skip AAA, but that happens in real life.

Rule 5 seems to be seeing movement.

I have started my keeper league for myself with this patch.

[sutnopG]

Originally Posted by WIUPIKE

It seems to be ok for my liking. See maybe 1 to 3 picks make to MLB the year after drafted. Mostly in September. Some still skip AAA, but that happens in real life.

Rule 5 seems to be seeing movement.

I have started my keeper league for myself with this patch.

Thanks for your answer! Sounds promising