Pirates Play Moneyball 1951 - ????

[luckymann]

My apologies, I appear to have turned your wonderful thread into a poorly written 60s British sitcom.

As you were, don't mind me - I shall pipe down forthwith.

[Brad K]

No problem. I certainly take the tangent in your threads on occasion.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

No problem. I certainly take the tangent in your threads on occasion.

And I encourage, nay beseech, you to keep doing so.

[Brad K]

Clendenon lost in the expansion draft.

Veale went to Baltimore to become the highest paid pitcher is baseball.

The press is ignoring the huge drop in fan interest.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Clendenon lost in the expansion draft.

Veale went to Baltimore to become the highest paid pitcher is baseball.

The press is ignoring the huge drop in fan interest.

Onward and upward, I say!

[Brad K]

Starting lineup

C Manny Sanguillen, rookie
1B Bob Bailey, moved from 3B
2B Ken Hubbs
3B Richie Hebner, rookie
SS Gene Alley
LF Willie Stargell
CF Jim Northrup
RF Roberto Clemente

Northrups CF rating as dropped a lot. He's 7 on a 20 scale. He's going to need to hit a lot to make up for that. I have defensive wiz Ken Berry starting against LHP.

I'd like to be able to keep Bob Bailey. Last year of his contract. I got him to sign a 4 year deal after 65 which bought out his arbitration years plus first FA year.

He can play three positions, 1B, 3B, and LF, somewhat competently.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Starting lineup

C Manny Sanguillen, rookie
1B Bob Bailey, moved from 3B
2B Ken Hubbs
3B Richie Hebner, rookie
SS Gene Alley
LF Willie Stargell
CF Jim Northrup
RF Roberto Clemente

Northrups CF rating as dropped a lot. He's 6 on a 20 scale. He's going to need to hit a lot to make up for that. I have defensive wiz Ken Berry starting against LHP.

I'd like to be able to keep Bob Bailey. Last year of his contract. I got him to sign a 4 year deal after 65 which bought out his arbitration years plus first FA year.

He can play three positions, 1B, 3B, and LF, somewhat competently.

Those quality utility IFs are unicorns, I always have one in my squads.

[Brad K]

I remember the real life opening series against St Louis in 1969. When the schedules were release I didn't like it. Opening the season against the defending NL champs. I knew the Pirates were better but still didn't see them standing up against the Cards.

Anyway after dark I could get KDKA in Indy and I listened until I fell asleep. I had to go to school the next day. The game went extra innings. Next morning I heard the Bucs had won.

And then they won the next two! With rookies everywhere. Sanguillen, Oliver, Hebner.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by luckymann

Those quality utility IFs are unicorns, I always have one in my squads.

Bailey right now is a star starter at some position.

[Brad K]

Close again. But nice to see expansion teams become successful.

[luckymann]

Wow - followed the IRL story with the Mets.

Hard luck again bud but at least you are thereabouts I guess!

Come on the A's!

[Brad K]

Where are they now? Fall 1969

Let's check on some Pirates who left via free agency or trade.

Bill Mazeroski age 33. Durable as ever, he has started an average of 157 games per year in five years with the Angels. Five year WAR of 21.9 is comparable to his Pirate years.

Felipe Alou age 34. His big contract with the Mets ran out in 1968. His last year he had a WAR of 4.7 on a $210k salary and can still play CF. But the Mets let him go to free agency where he drew a mere $73k from the Expos for 1969.

Dick Groat age 38. His 1963 contract with Boston paid $194k a year through 67 and $172k for 68. He had a WAR of 4.3 in 63, 5.2 in 64, 1.9 in 65. Injuries limited playing time in 66 (1.5 WAR) and after that he lost SS job to Rico Petrocelli.

Steve Blass age 27. Blass was a minor leaguer when he was traded with Ken McMullen for Jim Palmer. Since then Blass has a 7.9 WAR and McMullen has a 4.9 WAR. Palmer had a mere 2.6 WAR with Pittsburgh through 68 but added 5.6 in 69 for a total of 8.2, still well under the Blass/McMullen total.

Bob Veale age 33. In leaving the Pirates for 69 Veale became the highest paid pitcher in baseball. He turned in a 7.1 WAR for the year for his $332k.

Jim Bunning age 37. He is a free agent after 1969. His contract was $1,010,000 over five years. He produced 24.9 WAR over that period even though he missed four months of 1968 due to injury.

Note: I don't use modern stats in the news articles so the flavor is right, but in notes like this I do.

[Brad K]

Here you go. I usually only document Pirate happenings. I hope we don't have an A's vs Bucs WS.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Here you go. I usually only document Pirate happenings. I hope we don't have an A's vs Bucs WS.

Giddy up!!!

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Here you go. I usually only document Pirate happenings. I hope we don't have an A's vs Bucs WS.

How far did the Miracles get?

[Brad K]

Lost to the A's

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Lost to the A's

Oh well, bring on next year!!

[Brad K]

Uh.... The Pirates, not the Mets, are supposed to win next year!!!

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Uh.... The Pirates, not the Mets, are supposed to win next year!!!

Of course!!

[Brad K]

Breaking spring training camp is about the time for the press to review the up coming season in context of what happened in the off season. In this case, that would be...

Mike Cuellar age 32 left as free agent and signed with Atlanta for $1.2m over five years (huge drop in fan interest)

Bob Bailey age 27 left as free agent and signed with SF for $1.1m over four years (huge drop in fan interest)

and Ken Hubbs age 28 left as free agent and signed with NY Yankees for $784k over three years (I don't know if Hubbs wasn't very popular or the interested fans already lost their interest because his departure was kind of a ho hum).

Season ticket sales (and daily ticket sales) took a beating in 69 after Bob Veale left on the free agency highway and Donn Clendenon was selected in the expansion draft. So now on opening day 1970 we're looking at about half the season ticket sales as we had opening day 1968.

I wonder if the new ballpark will help? If it doesn't we ought to time tunnel the info to the future to the TB Rays front office.


ANYWAY....

...expecting the press to report on all these bad happenings (and the fact expected first baseman of the future rookie Bob Robertson was injured late in spring training and won't play until May) the Pirates have devised a POSITIVE EVENT for the press to report on!!!

The Bucs open at home on the 7th with an off day following so we have a 6th and 8th event for the fans.