Could There Be An America's Team? Let's try

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Remember Milton Hite, the guy who is having a decent MLB career in this save despite having never played MLB in real life? Here is how he's doing. "He gets on base." - Brad Pitt as Billy Beane in Moneyball

Milton Hite played one season of professional ball, 1962 for the Salem Rebels, the lowest level minor-league team in the San Francisco farm system. He was a 22yo player in a league where the average player was 19 and subsequently dominated with a 289/449/401 slash line. He must have been a slap hitter as he had only 11 XB hits (and just one was a homer) out of the 41 hits against pitchers he probably overmatched.

He made 14 errors in 35 games at 2B, which might give us some insight as to why he did not play professionally in 1963.

Maybe he was injured or quit. Or maybe the Giants expected more out of him. Either way, OOTP almost certainly overrates him!

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by uruguru

Milton Hite played one season of professional ball, 1962 for the Salem Rebels, the lowest level minor-league team in the San Francisco farm system. He was a 22yo player in a league where the average player was 19 and subsequently dominated with a 289/449/401 slash line. He must have been a slap hitter as he had only 11 XB hits (and just one was a homer) out of the 41 hits against pitchers he probably overmatched.

He made 14 errors in 35 games at 2B, which might give us some insight as to why he did not play professionally in 1963.

Maybe he was injured or quit. Or maybe the Giants expected more out of him. Either way, OOTP almost certainly overrates him!

I suppose I should check his actual ratings instead of relying on why my scout says.

Small sample size so we don't really know much. Not knowing much, but showing good OBP, OOTP turning him into a 3 WAR player is OK with me.

[uruguru]

But here's food for thought. If he had actually made it to the majors in 1963 and had a cup of coffee (maybe going 2-for-6 in September) before retiring, the game would have downgraded his ratings to mediocrity due to the small sample size! (see: John Paciorek 1.000 career hitter). The game doesn't seem to apply the same reduction to milb stats, I think

[Brad K]

I have "by position" selected for the overall rating. I wonder if it would be lower if I had it set for all players.

Anyway, the game takes long time players out of action at young ages with career ending injuries. Because of that I'm OK with someone like Hite making MLB.

I don't know what would happen with six MLB at bats. However consider George Korinc from a past game with 17 real life MLB IP.

George Korinc

[Brad K]

April 4 1968

RP Joe Gibbon and RP Stu Miller refused demotion. They are both on waivers/DFA. C Jay Porter and SS Bobby Wine are out of options. Both are on Waiver/DFA.

Porter is a fine and cost effective backup C but the acquisition of Tim McCarver made Pagliaroni the backup. (Were this Pirates Moneyball I'd trade Pagliaroni, 2.5 stars. salary $196k, and keep Porter, 2.0 stars, salary $55k.)

Wine ended last year at 2.0 stars and now is 1.0. I need better reserves than that. Danny Cater can play a little 2B and 3B and essentially gets Wine's spot with Patek covering Wine's role of backup at short.

Several players have had their ratings drop. McCarver makes up some of it but overall the team isn't as strong as last year. Pagliaroni gets to keep the catching job against LHP.


Joe GIbbon, Stu Miller, Jay Porter

[Brad K]

April 8 1968

Owner says play .500 ball. BNN predicts 92-70 and third place 4 games out. First is reachable.

Last minute change in lineups. Willie Stargell plays 1B against RHP with Matty Alou in LF. Donn Clendenon plays 1B against LHP with Stargell alternating in LF with Curt Flood.

Maz has gotten weak. He's 2.5 stars and BNN ranks him 18th in MLB at 2B. Boston won't talk about Rico Petrocelli who is 5.0 stars, 24 yo, and getting paid minimum wage. Jim Fregosi is 3.5 stars

BNN rates Freddie Patek 12th in MLB at 2B so for now he's playing there. Bob Veale or Bob Moose for a 2B is way too much. Nobody is interested in Steve Blass.

RP Joe Gibbon, RP Stu Miller, C Jay Porter, and SS Bobby Wine all cleared waivers. Only Wine accepted a demotion to AAA.

Traded RP Joe Gibbon 2.0 stars age 32 and AAA CF Conrad Brown age 25 1.5/1.5 for for RP Dave DeBusschere age 28 2.0 stars. Got a fan interest increase for DeBusschere!

So DeBusschere refuses to be demoted! He shows 5 years 140 days service. I thought they couldn't refuse demotion until six years. Anyway RP DeBusschere 2.0 stars age 28 and A ball C Tom Dettore age 20 1.0/2.0 for RP Claude Raymond age 30 2.5 stars and AAA LF Lou Piniella age 24 2.0/2.5.

Tom Dettore was born in Canonsburg PA a few miles south of Pittsburgh. Canonsburg has a statue of Perry Como downtown and the there are two drive up lanes at McDonalds, one named for Como and the other for Bobby Vinton. Real life Dettore brlefly played for the Pirates as a pitcher.

Traded C Jay Porter age 35 2.0 stars for A ball 3B Jim Holt age 23 1.5/2.0. Had to retain 40% ($22k) of Porter's salary.

Traded RP Stu Miller age 40 2.0 stars for Util IF Robert Klein age 31 2.0 as 2B. Klein has an option year. Retained 30% ($24k) of Miller's salary.

[Brad K]

April 12 1968

C Tim McCarver agreed to an extension of $280k per year for 69, 70, 71. The fans like it. Fan interest is 99 with +28 modifier.


May 1 1968

Mediocre offense, terrible pitching, we're 10-8 two out. The Python calls us 8-10.

[Brad K]

May 14 1968

2B Freddie Patek injured and out for six weeks. 2B isn't much of a problem but him being the back up SS is. 2B Jerry Adair is a FA and has a 10 rating at SS. I offered him $23k ($2k over minimum wage) hoping he'll come to a quick decision. I have Danny Cater playing 2B in the meantime. He's a good singles hitter and is 10 on defense.

I've been looking at MLB players as 2B, 3B, and SS looking for a better hitter than the players I have at that position. Almost everyone wants SP Bob Moose.

We're only three out which is incredible for an 8th place team. We're now fourth in scoring but remain a dismal 9th in runs aganst.

Attendance is down 14%.


May 17 1968

Adair signed and my scout decides he's only 6 at SS instead of 10 and only 10 at 2B instead of 13. OK fine, he's a backup shortstop and Cater plays 2B.

[Brad K]

May 30 1968

We are now set for the greatest comeback in history.

[Pelican]

Having a good laugh at Cater trying to play 2B. IRL he was a big slow guy who had a good stroke but no power. Little range in the field. I cannot imagine him turning a DP. Of course this is a faded memory of watching him play more than fifty years ago. And to be fair the Phils more recently had Placido Polanco as a 2B despite a lack of range but great hands and a nice stroke but little power. He unfortunately stood in the way of Chase Utley, a far better player.

[Brad K]

He's rated 10 on a 20 scale at 2B. Maybe he's so big runners can't knock him down to break up a DP!

[Brad K]

...

[Brad K]

June 3 1968

I've been working really hard to trade for a 2B or 3B. While there are lots of players not hitting, for those at 2B and 3B, not hitting is their skill level.

Its clear I'm going to have to give up a SP. Bob Veale is in the last year of his contract and wants a longer term contract than I'm willing to go with.

SP Bob Veale age 32 3.0 stars (Last year of contract)
3B Bob Bailey age 25 2.5 stars
SP Dick Bosman age 24 AAA 2.0/2.5
SP Dock Ellis age 23 AAA 2.5/3.5

For

3B Dick Allen age 26 4.5 (Last year of contract)
SP Grant Jackson age 25 2.5
RP Clay Carroll age 27 2.5
RP Robert Hansen age 23 2.5
Corner IF Corner OF Joe Lis age 21 AAA 2.0/2.5

Bob Veale wanted a long term contract which I wasn't going to do. I figured he was gone after this year. It would be nice to be able to sign Allen.

I need to spend the extension money now in case the owner cuts the budget.

[Brad K]

June 8, 1968

Dick Allen age 26 signed extension. He was scheduled to be a FA after this season. Fans like it. Interest 99 +30

screen shot


July 1 1968

Freddie Patek is back from injury. He's going to get half of the starts at 2B while Danny Cater gets the other half. Cater is 13 contact hitting .313 while Patek is 10 contact hitting .250. Patek is the better fielder 14 to 10. Long time 2B Bill Mazeroski lost the starting role this year and is a defensive replacemeet for Cater.

I've been giving C Jim Pagliaroni the starts against LHP but I've changed that to half. It's not really clear Pagliaroni is a better choice against LHP than Tim McCarver. McCarver has a better C rating, 11 to 9, but no power at the plate while Pagliaroni has some.

We've crawled up to 8th place 8 1/2 out with a 16-14 June. Scoring is up to second in the NL. Runs allowed are 9th.

Its really necessary to do a lot better. We need to be filling Forbes before Three Rivers opens. The new park with greater capacity is the opportunity to become America's team that must be seized. I hoped to be selling out Forbes by this time.

I'm apprehensive about how much competitiveness we'll lose in the expansion draft, some aging players, and Willie Mays having 1969 as a player's option.

Anyway, despite 8th place, here's a push to win now.

Traded 20 yo AAA 3B Richie Hebner 2.5/3.5 and 29 yo RP Bob Miller 2.5 retaining 40% of the remainder of $125k for 23 yo SP Steve Carlton 4.0.

No reaction from the fans.

[Brad K]

July 8, 1968

We're up to 7th place. 6 games out 42-44. The Python has us 44-42. Runs allowed now up to 8th.

Roberto Clemente led all players in voting for the all star team with 1,054,414 votes. He is hitting .309 with 17 HRs and 57 RBI. Woodie Fryman finished first in voting for RPs despite a 3-10 record (some as SP) and a 3.39 ERA.

Steve Carlton was selected by the NL manager to be on the team. He did not finish in the top five in fan voting despite being 12-5 with a 1.62 ERA (mostly with the Cards).

Dave DeBusschere is still playing baseball! He finished 4th in RP voting.

I've had Matty Alou set for all the starts in LF against RHP with Curt FLood starting against LHP. Against RHP Alou has contact 20 vs Floods 15 but on defense Flood is 19 against Alou's 14. I've just set Flood to get half the LF starts against RHP and Alou gets the other half.

Against RHP Murtaugh has Alou leading off when he's in the lineup with Willie Mays second. However with Flood in the lineup he has him hitting second and Dick Allen leadoff. I'm not going to over rule him.

[Brad K]

August 1 1968

We've pulled ourselves up to fourth place ten games out. Interesting that is more games out than we were when we were tenth place on June 3 (eight games out).

We're 2nd in NL is runs scored, 5th in runs allowed, and The Python has us at 57 wins vs 54 actual. The team has been improving and I think there is still a chance to win although Miracle Pirates doesn't have much of a ring to it.

We played .620 in July. If we did that in August and September we'd win 87 games and if we pick up the three wins we're behind on The Python we'd be at 90. If SF continues their current pace (.598) and picked up the one win they're behind on The Python they'd be at 91. Whew!

I still think we might do it. We still have some under performers, especially on pitching considering this is the historic Year of the Pitcher. Average scoring is 3.47 per team per game, very close to the historical 3.42.

We're allowing 3.42 which should not be the case with Gibson, Carlton, and Moose. Carlton's 1.77 ERA mostly comes from StL. He's 2.62 with us.

Interestingly all the RPs have at least one save. After I traded for him Grant Jackson was in the rotation before moving to the pen. Woodie Fryman started in the pen and has 7 saves not shown.

[Brad K]

September 1 1968

A 17-13 August let us make up some ground. We're six out now. For a short period we were five out. The Giants collapsed with a 7-22 August and are now in second 5 1/2 games out. The Dodgers went 17-11 to claim first place.

Bob Moose threw a no hitter at Cincinnati on August 20. Moose had a perfect game through eight but walked Johmmy Edwards to start the ninth. He threw only 78 pitches.

In spot checking some August box scores I found Milton Hite took the free agency highway from SF to LA. He's 28 now, still doesn't hit much but walks a lot (.360 career OBP). His contract runs through 1973 and the last four years pay $360k each. I havne't been brave enough to sign a never in the majors player to a long contract.

Its funny how one can make a difference. When we were five out I was quite hopeful. Add one to that to make us six out and one week to the date I'm not nearly as hopeful.

However The Python has us four wins better than actual. It would be super nice to get those. We're second in scoring and second in runs allowed. Pitching has really shaped up.

Danny Murtaugh, Joe Brown

[Brad K]

...

[Brad K]

October 1 1968

We finished second 7 games out. Per game revenue down 13.9%. Average attedence only 25k with park capacity 35k. Overall 4th in attendence and total revenue. Don't know. Slipping but not out of the running for America's Team.

October 11 1968

The Yankees beat the Dodgers in the World Series 4 games to 2.

[Brad K]

Information so people don't have to go hunting in the early posts.

• 3 year recalc not weighted TCR 100, Real Stats (after starting the save I learned some things that make me now prefer neutralized stats).
• Rating scale 1-20, overall based on all players
• I don't manage games but manager characteristics are set to my preferences.
• Owner controls budget. He is set to generous with priority to win.
• Visiting team gets 30% of the gate.
• Default revenue sharing on.
• Injuries set to OOTP Classic, fatigue to default.
• Trading set to hard.
• Full historical minor leagues. Career minor leaguers may make majors.
• I control lineups and depth charts.
• Psychology off.
• 25 man active roster. No expanded rosters.
• Free agency, 10/5 rule, ability to refuse demotion, and Rule 5 enabled.
• No amateur draft. Players start in their historic organizations.
• Story lines off.
• League strategy and finances evolve according to history.
• No DH.

Goal is to use the Pirates 1960 World Series win and attendant financial success as a jump off point to become America's Team. I haven't defined success but I figure winning a lot, improving market size, and leading in attendance are good measures.

This is a new experience for me, having money to spend. Before I've always tried to win on the cheap as in Pirates Play Moneyball.