19th Century 3D Ballparks

[asrivkin]

Thanks to dfswans for the new posts, they look great!

Here's the original home of the Cincinnati Reds, back when they were in the American Associaion, as well as home to their NL predecessors (the Cincinnati Stars) and their Union Association competitors (the Cincinnati Outlaw Reds): The Bank Street Grounds

Google Drive Link to Bank Street Grounds

There's really not much out there for this park, though there is an outline map of the park a researcher did and that I used. I assumed the diamond in that map sets the scale, though that makes the RF line (the one dimension I found reported anywhere) about 10% too large. This is a very big park (and would be even if shrunk by 10% in all dimensions), but since the park factors are taken care of elsewhere I suppose that's just a cosmetic feature. It was a few blocks away from the League Park/Crosley site, so I used the same background as I did for the League Park models. There is a contemporary atlas that shows not too many structures around the area, so it's relatively sparse.

I plan to tackle Chicago's 23rd Street Grounds next to finish off the present-day NL franchise history, and then see what remains from Garlon's latest list!

[Garlon]

Great work, asrivkin.

[zappa1]

Yes really good stuff from the both of you. You've been busy. All parks checked out for me no problems. Thank you all very much.

[zappa1]

Does anybody have a suggestion what to use for Messer Street Grounds in Providence, Rhode Island?

[asrivkin]

Originally Posted by zappa1

Does anybody have a suggestion what to use for Messer Street Grounds in Providence, Rhode Island?

It's on my to-do list after we get through the remaining ones for Garlon's mod, but in the meantime I suppose I'd go for either the first South End Grounds or Lake Front Park. I've only seen 1 or 2 pictures of Messer Street Grounds and it's sort-of like the Boston park, but in dimensions it's probably more like the hybrid Lake Front Park. When I (or whomever) make a real Messer Street Grounds model it'll have to be altered from the historical dimensions because the CF distance is too small...

[zappa1]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

It's on my to-do list after we get through the remaining ones for Garlon's mod, but in the meantime I suppose I'd go for either the first South End Grounds or Lake Front Park. I've only seen 1 or 2 pictures of Messer Street Grounds and it's sort-of like the Boston park, but in dimensions it's probably more like the hybrid Lake Front Park. When I (or whomever) make a real Messer Street Grounds model it'll have to be altered from the historical dimensions because the CF distance is too small...

Thank you for your info. I did select a Boston area park to use for the time being. Congress Street Grounds. Also was interested in Oriole Parks I & II & III if they were on your list. Love what you guys do. Thanks.

My mistake I see Oriole Park III, Union Park is in progress by dfswans.

[dfswans]

Originally Posted by zappa1

My mistake I see Oriole Park III, Union Park is in progress by dfswans.

That's correct, Zappa. I'm actively working on Union Park and should be able to finish this weekend at the latest!

[dfswans]

Union Park, Baltimore (post-fire NL 1895-1899)

Here is Union Park. The Orioles were a powerhouse that boasted Dan Brouthers, John McGraw and Wee Willie Keeler while playing here. Soon I will put out a "pre-fire" version since the park was on the same site.


Union_Park_1895-1899

[zappa1]

Thank you, dfswans. That's a wonderful photo you found also. Look forward to more of your work.

[asrivkin]

Hi all!

After a few weeks of work + fun travel (I got to see a baseball game in Seoul!) I'm easing back into the swing of things.

So here's the ballpark that hosted Chicago baseball from the National Association to the National League, and was the original home of today's Cubs: the 23rd Street Grounds.

This park was built the year after the Great Chicago Fire, and the information that's out there is somewhat scarce and a bit contradictory. I used what was posted in the Wikipedia page as well as in the book Before They Were the Cubs.

Google Drive Link to 23rd Street Grounds

There are no contemporary photos or drawings that I'm aware of. There are a couple of recent depictions, but I don't know that they're terribly historical. I opted for straight walls and sharp corners, which was the general style at the time. There probably wasn't bleacher seating in the outfield, but the park seemed a bit too large without it and it seemed like it might need seating out there to reach the stated capacity (though I suppose spectators out there would have been standing). The background is the correct part of Chicago, with the photos from Google Earth. I edited out a few buildings that looked too modern for me, and didn't include the view back toward the skyscrapers of downtown. Generating background views that look a bit more period appropriate might be another interesting use of AI, I suppose? The bases etc. (and the flag) are meant to be c. 1876 at the start of the National League.

With this park, only the original Polo Grounds remains unfinished of Garlon's original wish list, and my impression is that it's still in progress. We have some more to tackle that the new mod could use, and dfswans is already doing great work! I think the earliest Baltimore parks are the ones I'm likely to try next, and both Providence and Swampoodle Grounds are also on my to-do list (though neither are in the mod)...

Enjoy, and as always let me know if there are problems!

[zappa1]

Wonderful park. Just tried it and it's all good. You guys are bringing the 19th century alive. Making it fun to play.

[asrivkin]

Thank you again for the kind words and the support! I started making parks as a thing to do at the start of the pandemic, and figured I'd do it as long as it was fun and post them if people found them useful. So, I'm very pleased that four years later I'm still finding them fun and people are finding them useful!

[Ty Cobb]

Your efforts are appreciated, sir!

[asrivkin]

Well, maybe it was actually 1888? In any case, the next park is the first in the distinguished line of Oriole Parks, which continues to this very day. This Oriole Park was also known as Huntingdon Avenue Base Ball Grounds, which is close enough to the name of another park in this thread that I'm going to use the Oriole Park name.

While the Orioles had great success in the National League in the mid to late 1890s, during the years they spent in this park as an American Association team they were mediocre to bad.

Google Drive Link to Oriole Park I

There's not a whole lot out there about this park, and I didn't find any atlases of Baltimore that covered the area of the park at the time it was in operation. Its location was _just_ north of the city limits c. 1885, so maps didn't cover it. I took most of my information from this article about early Baltimore ballparks on the SABR website, and heavily based it on an artist's rendition of the relevant map in the article (which I'll attach below for the curious). Since that rendition didn't show a covered grandstand this park doesn't have one either, if only for a little bit of variety. The background is from Baltimore (near the Johns Hopkins Campus if I remember right?) but may be a bit less urban than spectators really would have seen.

I'm trying to tackle the remaining ballparks in roughly the order of number of years they were used. I think that means Cincinnati's Avenue Grounds next, though I may just go ahead and do Oriole Park II and Newington Park while I've got Charm City on my mind...

[Flying_Canuck]

I really respect the amount of research that is needed for the 19th century ballparks. The attention to detail and care that you guys put into each stadium is obvious. It's awesome to be able to have these come to life in our game. I also know and appreciate how much time and effort needed to create each stadium. This latest one is so beautiful that I have to leave a comment. Congratulations on a superb job!

[BaseballMan]

just in time for my 1883 season

thanks

[Garlon]

We only have a few ballparks remaining. If these are too much trouble to do it is no big deal because we can have the era_ballparks file set up to use a different ballpark model to cover those seasons.

Cubs
Union Baseball Grounds 1871-1873

Dodgers
Capitoline Grounds 1871-1872

Giants
Polo Grounds I 1883-1888 (I think Silvam began work on this project.)

Reds
Avenue Grounds 1876-1879

Athletics
Oakdale Park 1882

Cleveland
National League Park 1887-1888 (I am not sure how different this is from the League Park I Silvam model though.)
National League Park 1889-1890 (I am not sure how different this is from the League Park I Silvam model though.)

Yankees (Baltimore)
Newington Park 1882

[asrivkin]

Originally Posted by Garlon

We only have a few ballparks remaining. If these are too much trouble to do it is no big deal because we can have the era_ballparks file set up to use a different ballpark model to cover those seasons.

I'm about to post Avenue Grounds, and will give my current take on these others...

Originally Posted by Garlon

Cubs
Union Baseball Grounds 1871-1873

Dodgers
Capitoline Grounds 1871-1872

I think there's enough out there for someone (whether me or someone else) to do these reasonably historically, if memory serves.

Originally Posted by Garlon

Yankees (Baltimore)
Newington Park 1882

This one and Orioles Park II are next up for me!

Originally Posted by Garlon

Giants
Polo Grounds I 1883-1888 (I think Silvam began work on this project.)

Agreed, that's also my understanding.

Originally Posted by Garlon

Reds
Avenue Grounds 1876-1879

See next post!

Originally Posted by Garlon

Athletics
Oakdale Park 1882

Cleveland
National League Park 1887-1888 (I am not sure how different this is from the League Park I Silvam model though.)
National League Park 1889-1890 (I am not sure how different this is from the League Park I Silvam model though.)

see asterisk comment below! I think this is just one park 1887-1890!

The Cleveland parks are definitely different both from one another and the Silvam model*. I'm not sure if there's enough out there to do a particularly faithful job, but if folks want something different from the other parks I'm sure we can whip up something with the right look and feel. Same with that Philadelphia park, though I haven't looked much for info on that one.

I know dfswans has plans for some additional parks, and we'll keep adding to this thread once these parks are accounted for. I may try to finish the set of Union Association parks. But I also eventually need to make some more 1920s parks for the actual game I'm playing..


*Actually, I think I'm wrong about this. There were two "National League Park"s in Cleveland, but the first one was what's being called Kennard Street Park. The Spiders were in the AA 1887-1888 and the NL 1889-1890 before moving the the League Park (which Silvam made) that was renovated a few times and used into the 1940s.

[asrivkin]

Avenue Grounds (I've not seen it called "The Avenue Grounds" though that seems like a more natural name) was the home of the first NL team in Cincinnati, who like today's team were called the Reds. This team followed the Cincinnati Red Stockings in the Queen City, and had a couple of players in common with that team, but did not play at the Red Stockings' home. Instead they played at this park near the edge of town for their relatively short and mostly unhappy tenure in the league. After disbanding in 1879, the park was used for amateur games for the next 15 or so years while major-league teams in Cincinnati played their games at the Bank Street Grounds.


Google Drive Link for Avenue Grounds

We have come rather a way compared to parks early in the thread in terms of information available. I haven't found any atlases or maps that show the structures for the park, but there does seem to be one sketch that I'm assuming is contemporary and that guided my modeling. I didn't find any dimensions, but did find an article that claimed the right field line was short and center field and left field were big, so I tried to reflect that. The background is from the right part of Cincinnati, but retains a bit more of the modern aspects than I'd prefer. Still, since according to the Wikipedia article they're not even quite 100% sure where the ballpark is I'll take this as being as close as I can get it...

Enjoy!

[zappa1]

Wonderful. It's sometimes hard keeping up with you guys. haha Also, thank you for all of the updated info.